Des Bishop: Joy in the Hood

[A face]

He is on telly tonight at 9.30pm from Knocka in Cork !!
The guy is doing great work imo .... fair play to him.

[dcfcsteve]

Saw his show on the 'comedy project' in Ballymun last night.

Interesting enough. His work should have a very positive impact upon the small group he chose to get involved.

Other than that, however, the prog seemed happy to reinforce the old stereotypes of the area. Kids on bikes ripping the feck out of the grassed-over areas, hoods hoofing things off balconies. The Cork one looks like it'll be just the same - giving exposure to joyriders etc.

So I think his show has the potential to do more harm to an area than good - helping a very small griup of individuals, whilst simultaneously projecting an overwhelmingly negative image of where they live. We all know that there is a lot of positive development happenign within Ballymun. And I also refuse to believe that anyone other than Des Bishop is doing good work in the area, or that there aren't positive images/role-models he could've shown. But nah - hoods make better telly.

[pete]

Last week episode only held my attention for few minutes so can't review. Its hardly altruistic social work as primary goal is tv show that might have bonus of improving locals lot.

[Macy]

We all know that there is a lot of positive development happenign within Ballymun.

Just have to make the point, the Ballymun development company (I forget the official name) isn't held in high regard by the locals. They've been giving out about lack of facilities (still) for locals, lack of consultation over the developments, public housing disrupted for longer than private, closing of public amenities and opening up of expensive private ones instead etc etc.

Or by positive, do you mean putting lots of fenced off estates full of houses that people from the area can't afford? Or renaming parts of Ballymun "Santry Cross", so these middle class people don't have to put up with the name, let alone mix with the locals?

On the programme, they may be the old stereo types, but tbh I think it's good to show that things haven't changed in parts of this country. People have got apathetic about social deprivation, just because they've never had it so good they assume that everyone else is on the gravy train. It’s good that people have a reality check imo.

[dcfcsteve]

Just have to make the point, the Ballymun development company (I forget the official name) isn't held in high regard by the locals. They've been giving out about lack of facilities (still) for locals, lack of consultation over the developments, public housing disrupted for longer than private, closing of public amenities and opening up of expensive private ones instead etc etc.

This almost always happens in large redevelopment projects. The organisation that developed the Docklands in London was villified left, right and centre. The body charged with looking after redevelopment of the former army bases in Derry city centre is already very unpopular, before anything concrete has even been proposed. No-one likes change - particularly if it doesn't meet their own narrow needs and/or idea of how things should be. Redevelopment inevitably also involves making some decisions that will be unpopular.

Or by positive, do you mean putting lots of fenced off estates full of houses that people from the area can't afford? Or renaming parts of Ballymun "Santry Cross", so these middle class people don't have to put up with the name, let alone mix with the locals?

Ballymun was rightly recognised - both in Ireland an internationally - as a feckin sh!thole. It was a widely used case stusy of failed urban planning (as, coincidentally, Tallaght is also). It was badly planned from the start, and then left tio disintegrate with no attention from the authorities until the area no longer 'worked' - requiring its wholesale re-design/redevelopment. The fact that that redevelopmenbt is finally occuring is what I call 'psoitive'. I am personally all for mixed housing in areas - regardless of whether or not they have a fence. The alternative was to leave Ballymun as it was, or to redevelop it as the same place but with newer houses. Ballymun needed massive and creative change to counteract its negative image. Simply swopping flats for houses wouldn't have succeeded in doing this.

On the programme, they may be the old stereo types, but tbh I think it's good to show that things haven't changed in parts of this country. People have got apathetic about social deprivation, just because they've never had it so good they assume that everyone else is on the gravy train. It’s good that people have a reality check imo.

But the show DIDN'T highlight ANY social deprivation !! Think about it - what did it show ? Large groups of kids razzing around on motorbikes and quad-bikes (social deprivation my arse - they ain't feckin' cheap !) ; a group of hoods with an angle grinder trying to saw one of the doors to their own flat in-half. Most of the people involved in the project had jobs- some of them very good jobs - whilst the others seemed too young (16yr old girl). Where exactly was the social deprivation highlighted ??

[Macy]

Ballymun was rightly recognised - both in Ireland an internationally - as a feckin sh!thole. It was a widely used case stusy of failed urban planning (as, coincidentally, Tallaght is also). It was badly planned from the start, and then left tio disintegrate with no attention from the authorities until the area no longer 'worked' - requiring its wholesale re-design/redevelopment. The fact that that redevelopmenbt is finally occuring is what I call 'psoitive'. I am personally all for mixed housing in areas - regardless of whether or not they have a fence. The alternative was to leave Ballymun as it was, or to redevelop it as the same place but with newer houses. Ballymun needed massive and creative change to counteract its negative image. Simply swopping flats for houses wouldn't have succeeded in doing this.

But the housing isn't mixed. It's a straight swap for the people out of the flats, and it's brand spanking new Santry Cross (not addressed or called Ballymun) estates for the influx of new money. They don't mix, they're not together, so how is mixed housing?

The alternative was to truely involve the local community in how they wanted to redevelop the area, what they wanted, what facilities they needed. This simply wasn't done.

But the show DIDN'T highlight ANY social deprivation !! Think about it - what did it show ? Large groups of kids razzing around on motorbikes and quad-bikes (social deprivation my arse - they ain't feckin' cheap !) ; a group of hoods with an angle grinder trying to saw one of the doors to their own flat in-half. Most of the people involved in the project had jobs- some of them very good jobs - whilst the others seemed too young (16yr old girl). Where exactly was the social deprivation highlighted ??

Large groups of kids doing what they wanted, young lads axel grinding derelict flats and chucking stuff off them. Your right, sounds like an average afternoon Blackrock to me.

[dcfcsteve]

But the housing isn't mixed. It's a straight swap for the people out of the flats, and it's brand spanking new Santry Cross (not addressed or called Ballymun) estates for the influx of new money. They don't mix, they're not together, so how is mixed housing?

It's a reality of life that you wont get large numbers of the wealthy middle class happily living immediately cheek-to-cheek with the poor working class. That's life. When people buy a house, they're just as interested in the immediate neighbours they're 'buying'. With this in mind, therefore, the next best thing for social cohesion is to locate different social groups (i.e. not individuals) as geographically close together as you can, in a patch-work formation. That recognises the fact that any higher degree of social cohesion is night-on impossible to enforce, and is preferable to the previosu planning modesl of having massive swathes of poor and well-off housing situated independently with little or no interface-interaction (e.g. Ballymun).

The alternative was to truely involve the local community in how they wanted to redevelop the area, what they wanted, what facilities they needed. This simply wasn't done.

That's a fair point - the locals should've at least felt they were being involved. The problem, however, is often to do with the funding (i.e. the private sector). Those who are paying for the majority of such projects understandably want to be able to call a lot of the shots unhindered.

Large groups of kids doing what they wanted, young lads axel grinding derelict flats and chucking stuff off them. Your right, sounds like an average afternoon Blackrock to me.

Had it been a gang murder outside Annabels, would that've sounded more Blackrock to you....? I'm sorry, but bad behaviour is NOT evidence of social deprivation. There are obvious and more powerful indicators of social deprivation. Where was the coverage of facilities, or the lack of ? All they showed was the Axis, which is an excellent facility. Where was the lack of shops ? Where was the mention, let alone analysis, of unemployment rates ? What about school attendance/success rates ? Single and/or underage
parents ? Mental health indicators ? Crime rates ? Drug statistics ? These are all things that Ballymun suffers from, and are all much more accurate indicators of social deprivation than a group of kids revving around on expensive motor and quad bikes. But the only thing they did show that Ballymun suffers from is young loutishness. The show clearly had no interest in show-casing social deprivation - just in presenting/reinforcing the stereotype of the area in order to boost the 'worthiness' and 'bravery' of Des Bishop's 'project'.

[finlma]

Other than that, however, the prog seemed happy to reinforce the old stereotypes of the area. Kids on bikes ripping the feck out of the grassed-over areas, hoods hoofing things off balconies. The Cork one looks like it'll be just the same - giving exposure to joyriders etc.

He's just showing what happens in the area Steve. You hardly expect him to show the kids of Ballymun helping Grannys to cross the street.

[dcfcsteve]

He's just showing what happens in the area Steve. You hardly expect him to show the kids of Ballymun helping Grannys to cross the street.

I agree with you. But he's only showing one very narrow facet of what happens in Ballymun.

If he really is interested in highlighting social problems and social deprivation - as has been argued on here - then why is he only focusing on a few instances of anti-social behaviour ? There's much more to deprivation than acting the maggot.

I bet it's just to provide the 'mean streets' backdrop to justify his choice of the area. Let's face it - if he rocked up in Foxrock to do the very same show, it just wouldn't be interesting television. He needs to focus on the 'scary' side of Ballymun in order to make his show seem worthwhile/interesting. It's therefore not a genuine effort to highlight the areas many problems, as is being claimed. This leapt out at me whilst watching the show.

[sligoman]

Any of ye watch it? First episode was last week and it was the Ballymun comedians, it's on again tonight with the Cork fella's. Should be good stuff! He was on "Tubridy Tonight" last Saturday with three of the comedians. Eric Lalor is the best I've seen on the show so far. Des had him with him at his show in Sligo a few months ago and he was class, especially for someone who's not being doing it that long.

[Conor H]

Its good enough alright to look at these areas and how he's worked with them......cork should be alright aswell.The actual comedy part of the show though is just like Bishop-CRAP!
He hasn't ever made me laugh!

[Spudd]

Des Bishops supposed to be a comedian? i allways thought he was a tv presenter.

[The Stars]

ya i'll be watching tonight...good enough but not near as good as The Work Experience.

[Bosco]

Its a comedy show!Sure its set in deprived areas were social problems are evident but what you are all forgeting is that the shows main aim is to make people laugh,whether it be the people of ballymun,tuam etc or the people watching at home.Its barely a half hour long,if Bishop included dcfcsteves list of subjects which need highlighting then there would be very little time left for comedy,leave that to prime time.

[dcfcsteve]

Its a comedy show!Sure its set in deprived areas were social problems are evident but what you are all forgeting is that the shows main aim is to make people laugh,whether it be the people of ballymun,tuam etc or the people watching at home.Its barely a half hour long,if Bishop included dcfcsteves list of subjects which need highlighting then there would be very little time left for comedy,leave that to prime time.

I agree with you ! But read the title of this thread and some of the comments above....

[sligoman]

Spudd and Conor, out of interest, have ye ever seen Des Bishop live?

[Conor H]

No.....im sure your going to say he's good live but i have never seen Peter Kay,Ricky Gervais or Tommy Tiernan live and i go into stitches watching them on the TV!

[ccfcman]

Bit unrealistic portrayal of Knocka, there are far nicer and far ourgher areas there.

Also I couldn't understand the comedians, ie. were they actually all from Knocka or joking about Knocka, 'cos there were no scumbags or anything which I asssu7med he'd have had wanted to. Very disappointing I must say

[Peadar]

Very disappointing I must say

Disappointing? Perhaps! The alternative was some shíte about how the Dubs are rubbish at Gaelic Football.

The Dubs must be the only county who can have a documentary on their season, even though they're crap and win nothing.

Another waste of taxpayers money!

[pete]

Saw most of the episode from Cork last night. Wasn't impressed, show seemed too short & never got going...