Best debut albums of all time

**tetsujin1979** · 11/01/2006, 2:09 PM

Not a particularly great album, but without Bleach, we'd never have had Nevermind or In Utero

**Gerrit** · 11/01/2006, 6:02 PM

Of course Morrissey should not regroup with Mike Joyce, and it's sad that such a geniously brilliant band ended up like this. Luckily Joyce can never erase the memories and the great songs that The Smiths recorded.

However, as Moz and Marr did almost all the songwriting (both lyrically and musically) I think that if they would team up again they'd be entitled to use the moniker The Smiths, with another drummer replacing Mike Joyce. I am not sure how it is legally, I'm sure Joyce would complain about it, but morally he's not really entitled to stop it. All Smiths classics were mainly the work of Morrissey amd Marr, so if they want to re-unite and take over (

) to bring the songs of the Smiths again, I don't think there's any artistic or moral objection to it.

Mike Joyce is a rip-off, and what he does is a stab in the back of Morrissey and Marr. Without these musical geniuses, Joyce would have never earned anything close to his 10% of Smiths royalties, he may just have kept on playing in pubs in front of 50 people. He just played the songs that Moz and Marr composed, and those songs made the Smiths to the iconic band they are. The pleasure and privilege was his to be able to team up with people like Morrissey and Marr, he should be thankful instead of giving them a huge slap in the face.

**superfrank** · 11/01/2006, 7:40 PM

Originally Posted by onenilgameover

most first albums are the better albums in my opinion...

I think the third one is always the best. For example "Mothership Connection" Parliament, "Aquemini" OutKast, "I Am..." Nas.

**Gerrit** · 11/01/2006, 8:09 PM

Second ones.

Heaven Up Here - Bunnymen
Without you I'm nothing - Placebo
Mechanical animals - Marilyn Manson
Paranoid - Black Sabbath

In The Smiths' case you can debate though which was their second and third album. Hatful Of Hollow was in fact a collection of demo's, BBC session recordings, and a few songs that later appeared on Meat Is Murder. So it's discussable if Hatful of Hollow is a true album or more of an EP.
Same debate can be held regarding Smells Like Children (Marilyn Manson), Hullabaloo (Muse), ...

**tetsujin1979** · 11/01/2006, 9:32 PM

Manson's second album (if you're not counting Smells Like Children) is Antichrist Superstar

**noby** · 12/01/2006, 7:39 AM

Gerrit, in the case of the Smiths, there's no debate: Hatful of Hollow is a compilation, much the same as 'the world won't listen' and 'louder than bombs'.
In which case, TQID is their third album, which fits in nicely with superfrank's theory. But what about the Stone Roses?

Gerrit, Morrissey is about to release another album, and go on tour with it. He gets to sing Smiths songs on tour. At the moment, I would say reforming the Smiths is the last thing on his mind.

**razor** · 12/01/2006, 8:37 AM

After all thats been said and done there ain't a snowballs chance in hell of The Smiths reforming.
VH1 - Bands Reunited, don't be wasting your time.

**klein4** · 12/01/2006, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Not a particularly great album, but without Bleach, we'd never have had Nevermind or In Utero

all the more reason to hate it....the guitars are out of tune and the vocals are not in key..

**Gerrit** · 12/01/2006, 8:31 PM

Yep, Moz has his new album done, and I will definitely catch a show of him. He never skips Dublin on tour, so that's a close-to-home concert (maybe they can even get him here in Belfast. The Odyssey got Coldplay and Phil Collins, so why wouldn't they be able to get Moz?)

If he does How Soon Is Now and There Is A Light... I'd be extremely pleased. How Soon Is Now is a personal anthem, it's amazingly self-reflecting to me.

And I know we'll never see the original Smiths line-up again, but as I said, if Morrissey and Marr reform I think they are well entitled to use the moniker The Smiths, even if Mike Joyce (and possibly also Andy Rourke) are replaced.

Hatful of Hollow is a compilation, but still, some songs on it were hits or cult songs in the indie scene before they were appearing on Meat Is Murder. I more or less agree with Hatful of Hollow being a compilation, but it's different than World Won't Listen, Singles I & II, and The Very Best Of.

By the way, 2006 promises to be a busy year for me. Placebo, Muse, Morrissey and Indochine are all touring again, there's the Bauhaus reunion, and the Bunnymen continue their Siberia Tour...
My wallet is well-prepared to. Bring up those gig dates!

**noby** · 13/01/2006, 7:17 AM

He's (Morrisssey, that is) playing 4 dates in Manchester, in 4 different venues around april/may. That's all that's been announced so far.

**Lionel Ritchie** · 13/01/2006, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by noby

I hate to seem like I'm coming on here correcting everyone, but I thought you, Lionel, would be well aware of A Catholic Education.

indeed

**Gerrit** · 13/01/2006, 7:30 PM

Moz never skips Dublin, he'll definitely do Olympia Theatre or The Point again, and I'm secretly hoping he may come up here and play The Oddyssey.

As for Nirvana: I honestly dislike them. Lithium is a good song, the rest is bad to worse IMO.

**gustavo** · 13/01/2006, 7:48 PM

Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Pixies - Come on Pilgrim
)

wasnt that more of an EP?

**davey** · 15/01/2006, 8:46 PM

Originally Posted by Gerrit

If he does How Soon Is Now and There Is A Light... I'd be extremely pleased. How Soon Is Now is a personal anthem, it's amazingly self-reflecting to me.

:

Saw Mozzer at the SECC in Glasgow in 2004, opened with How Soon is Now - unbelievable!!!! Superbly delivered.

Also did a strangely lacklustre version of There Is A Light... - disappointing

The only other Smiths song he played was Shoplifters Of The World.

I'm hoping he plays Glasgow this year - with a few Smiths songs to boot

**Lionel Ritchie** · 16/01/2006, 9:46 AM

Said before -saw him in the point in dec 04 and was a little disappointed as he's one of my all time heroes.

Started with 'How soon is now' (never really loved that song like i do so many other smiths songs) and played 'There is a light...' TWICE. the second time was fine as it was his last song and they do an extended version where they drop out one by one leaving just the keyboard/synth-panpipe riff which was very nice -but why do the same song twice when you've a back catalogue the size of his. There was an awful lot of what I would consider 'starting 11' songs left out of the set. No 'Ouiija board', No 'Roy's Keen', No 'Alma Matters', No 'Boxers', No 'Boy Racer'....

**noby** · 16/01/2006, 10:16 AM

Saw him on the maladjusted tour (circa 1997, I think) in Cork.
The last song was "Lastnight I dreamt...". The band kept playing the melody over and over, while Morrissey quietly slipped away.
He played a few Smiths songs including Meat is murder.
'Roy's Keen' was given alternative lyrics too.

**Gerrit** · 16/01/2006, 7:10 PM

Moz plays Glasgow, Greenock, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Stirling: www.true-to-you.net (which is almost as reliable as the official site, as the webmistress is a personal friend of Mozzer)

Also check his replies to questions asked by fans. He compares Bush and Blair to Saddam Hussain, as Morrissey says all three of them are emotionless dictators. Cruel, yet spot on.

**davey** · 16/01/2006, 9:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gerrit

Moz plays Glasgow, Greenock, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Stirling: www.true-to-you.net (which is almost as reliable as the official site, as the webmistress is a personal friend of Mozzer)

Also check his replies to questions asked by fans. He compares Bush and Blair to Saddam Hussain, as Morrissey says all three of them are emotionless dictators. Cruel, yet spot on.

Cheers Gerrit. Playing at the much smaller Academy in Glasgow which is brilliant news. Now to get those tickets

**Marked Man** · 17/01/2006, 4:04 AM

Best Debut by anyone:
Spirtualized: Lazer Guided Melodies

Some other seriously good ones (that I didn't see mentioned above):
AC/DC: High Voltage
Joy Division: Unknown Pleasures
Leftfield: Leftism
Prodigy: Experience
PJ Harvey: Dry
Dead Kennedys: Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables
Conflict: It�s Time to see Who�s Who
Crass: The Feeding of the 5000
Bob Dylan: Bob Dylan
Autechre: Incunabula
Bauhaus: In the Flat Field
Cramps: Songs the Lord Taught Us
Death in Vegas: Dead Elvis
Fugazi: Fugazi
Orbital: Orbital
Pogues: Red Roses for Me
The Orb: The Orb�s Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld

Quite like Damien Dempsey�s debut �They don�t teach this **** in school,� but it�s not in the running for best debut. Still good though.

**razor** · 17/01/2006, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by noby

Saw him on the maladjusted tour (circa 1997, I think) in Cork.
The last song was "Lastnight I dreamt...". The band kept playing the melody over and over, while Morrissey quietly slipped away.
He played a few Smiths songs including Meat is murder.
'Roy's Keen' was given alternative lyrics too.

Was that in the Opera House ? If so that was late 1999. great night.