Quoteclick
I make to €300m per mile.
How many million a mile will it cost ??
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
click
I make to €300m per mile.
Paddy Power's Tunnel Odds:
When will Dublin’s Port Tunnel be officially opened?
Before 1st July 2006 14 - 1
1st July - 30th September 2006 inc' 11 - 2
1st October - 31st December 2006 inc' 5 - 4
After 1st January 2007 5 - 6
Port Tunnel Specials
Port Tunnel to be closed during 2007 due to nesting swans or ducks 100 - 1
Truck drivers to be issued with life jackets when entering Port tunnel 500 - 1
Port Tunnel branded swimwear to be launched before 31 Dec 2006 750 - 1
Port Tunnel to be re-designed as Europe’s biggest Waterslide 1000 - 1
NRA will be bringing in a Dutch firm to finish off the final phase of the tunnel.
See here
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
If the NRA have anything to do with it, Charlton Heston and his buddies will be waiting, rifle in hand, on the northside of the tunnel, ready to have a pot shot at anyone trying to sneak over from the southside.Originally Posted by A face
Have Boot Disk, will travel
Maybe its bullet holes that are causing the leaks.If the NRA have anything to do with it, Charlton Heston and his buddies will be waiting, rifle in hand, on the northside of the tunnel, ready to have a pot shot at anyone trying to sneak over from the southside.
Nope, its the incompetence of a builder (usually a FF hack) who made an arse dickey of the whole thing.Maybe its bullet holes that are causing the leaks.
Hawt'diggety'dog !!Maybe its bullet holes that are causing the leaks.
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
There is an article on Wikipedia.org about this, worth a read. The costs are surging and there are no answers coming from the Dail.
Its actually really bad now, on the six one news last night they said it is one of the most expensive projects ever undertaken in Europe at this stage, that is cringeworthy stuff at this stage. Martin Cullen just seems to be a by-stander in all of this. Should he lose his job and government persion over this ?? It has to have wrecked his political career by now, and if it hasn't, then we have absolutely now hope so, the guy can just do as he pleases.
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
I've no doubt that all the blame will be passed on to Dublin City Council, and they do have some responsibility. However, the lack of Governmental responsibility in this country is scary to me. Dick Roche was on the Last Word again last night blaming County Councils for lack of recycling facilities etc. Anything wrong with the Health Service is the HSE and in no way the Governments fault, etc etc. How many overspends and wasted millions is this Cullen has been over at this stage?
Edit - Moved the off topic local Government reform part to a new thread - Macy
Last edited by Macy; 12/01/2006 at 7:21 AM.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Probably never costed properly in the first place, if it was then it would never have got cabinet approval. The Port Tunnel seems to becoming a real white elephant especially when you consider it would have been far more sensible to relocate Dublin Port activities to Dundalk, Arklow, Drogheda etc, etc and free up all that land in Dublin City Centre for housing. The project itself and the need for it just does not make sense!!!
Having said all that when it does open up eventually then everyone will be wondering how they ever did without it!
Cork City FC
A grand on either of these bets would surely cover the costs of making the jackets or swimwear!
My own opinion is that we tend to get a little bit hysterical over some infrastructural projects. 750 million is a reasonable price to pay for a tunnel like this. The actual building of the tunnel is about 450 million with 300 million in sundry expences. It's in the sundry expences that there are savings to be made but they're politically unpopular (paying people less for buying the land under their houses, having a shorter planning process and things like that). Getting worried about a leak in the tunnel which has probably already been fixed is as silly as getting worked up over the builders having to re-glue some of the luas track.
The bottom line is that infrastructure is expensive and if we want it we'll have to pay for it. Giving power to the councils or voting in the opposition is not going to change the cost of hiring a tunnelling machiene or the cost of buying concrete. If I may quote a famous philosopher, this is a classic example of money being exchanged for goods and services.
Strange opinion. I'd have no issue with €750m if thats what the project was costed at & agreed at. Seems the state is totally incompetent at Project Management. If the builders come back to the state & ask for €200m top up for extra they entitled to request that but then means project not specified correctly to start with. What extra costs could you have with a tunnel? Surely the state asks for tenders on basis on Tunnel starting at A & ending at B. Builders tender with price based on spec & state signs contracts...
If you gave house plans to builder who said would do for €200k & then he came back when complete with bill for €300k you wouldn't pay him.
I'm not an expert in this pete, I'm an electronics engineer so my brief civil engineering training was a few years ago but my understanding of the situation is that contracts are usually based not just on the tunnel starting at A and finishing at B but also on the basis of what's in between. That's the key difference between the current contracts and the fixed price contracts that the government is going to use in the future (which, incidentally, I think are a bad idea). Under the current system, if something unexpected happened (e.g. difficult tunnelling conditions or a rare snail being discovered) and there are extra costs the government pays the extra. I don't know wheather this happened in this case or not. My point is that I don't see this as controversial and I don't see it as poor project management either. I would vote for an opposition party if one of them could give me a solid example of how they could reduce the cost of this project but none have. To use another example, I often hear politicians giving out about how much the luas cost but none have said how they would build it for cheaper.
They give out about how much it cost compared to what the Government said it would cost, and for what we got compared to what was initially costed.
If they'd got the Port Tunnel properly costed in the first place (would they not have tested the earth conditions before picking a route for a tunnel?), and said it would cost €750 million fair enough. But they didn't, they were either not competent enough to properly cost it, or they deliberately lied.
At current costs, you'd have to wonder about whether the proposal to move the port should've been given more serious consideration. Also Luas v a underground metro scheme. However, they'd probably have got those costing's 3 times out too - and this is why it's so bad, since the Governments figures can't be trusted we have no way of comparing between projects.
imo, the main problem is that Government ministers are in too much of a rush with their press releases telling us how great it will be and how little it'll cost when they only know how great it will be. I mean, Transport 21 - an overall cost, but no workings to show it's built on any kind of reality.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
My main experience is in software projects which should be specified & costsed in advance. By & large if customer wants extra features not originally costed then they are priced separately. I've also seen tender documents for constructions (buildings) & I know they broken down into detail e.g. foundation length, walls, etc... & then priced on that basis. It is ludicrous that the government up to now has been taking all the risk with projects as no encentive to developers to avoid those problems. Fixed price contracts would likely mean projects specified properly in future? Up to 20-30% over run might be acceptable in large scale projects but 200%+ is crazy.
Lads, I hope you're not suggesting in a roundabout way that there's been some kind of collusion going on between builders and politicians for decades. I'm 33 years old now and I like to think I've been around, and I've never heard such scurrilous accusations. You should be ashamed of yourselves, bringing the good repute of both politicians and builders into disrepute like that. Et cetera.
adam
Yeah, of course there isn't .... what ever were you thinking ?
I mean just look at this site, if you what you were saying were true, it would be totally redundant, for the bigger projects anyway.
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
I like this bit on front page.
Since when has a site been designed to make it difficult to use? Oh wait fai.ieThe site has been designed to make it easy and more intuitive to use.
Maybe i'll bid for this...
For Adam... or this...
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