NF Board: world cup for non-FIFA countries

[Gerrit]

Exactly. Brazil and Italy didn't build their empire in one or two years. These things take time, but allowing new countries to play and gain experience is their only chance to grow. By only always returning to established top teams and meanwhile laughing away initiatives such as NF Board, the situation in these countries cannot improve either. There's no reason why people that are passionate about football but have the tough luck of living in a country with political enemies, have no right to play football.

I mean, whenever politics get too far involved in sports (remember the Celtic-Rangers debates) everyone is the first to express their disapproval. When someone however tries to do something about the situation, like the NF Board does, then suddenly we don't care because it's not established or professional? Where are our ideas then that politics and football should not mix, when we laugh away an organisation that actually tries to help those blocked from playing because of political reasons?

And even then, even if it wasn't for politics. It's each to his own. Who is someone to say someone else should not have interest in a more amateur-esque tournament and should just join the mass and watch the big teams? There's no need to laugh away those who care about less obvious/succesful teams.



Hamish, I was in touch with the Greenlandic FA, and it is very hard to organise the game. The national sportscentre doesn't even have a stand (though in order to meet FIFA requirements, a proper ground in Nuuk is being constructed and will hopefully be finished in the very near future) and far distances between villages with only air transport don't help the situation either.
But the Greenlandic are very passionate about football. In towns with 500 people you have 2 or 3 clubs, and sometimes half a village travels to away games. So they are definitely very fanatic about football, and I'm sure some progress will be made once they are inside FIFA.



As for Vatican City: people with dual nationality can play for the Vatican team. Swiss Guard staff that adopted the local citizenship, or Italians/others that gained Vatican nationality. In less official games they may field some non-naturalised people who are strongly connected to the Vatican (students, staffmembers, etc) but for official games they'd just use people who gained Vatican nationality.
No need to mock with their side, I have all the respect for their FA as it must be very hard to organise football in that tiny country. The Vatican also has its own amateur league, and the stadium used for the national games is the Stadio Pio XII in Rome.



PS: I am still continuing work on my website about amateur football worldwide, I hope to launch it the coming weeks. Busy writing articles for it. Those who have ideas or information useful for an article may always PM, but please only serious messages and no mockeries if possible.

[hamish]

Actually Gerrit one regret I do have from my footie days is not getting around to organising a festival here in Beeslow involving Celtic countries - Isle of Man, Scotland, Norn Iron, Wales, Cornwall and Brittany.
It was one ambition I had. I hoped to make it a kind of seven a side thing for men, women, boys and girls plus other festivities like music and cultural events etc.
It would be a great boost to local tourism too.
If I ever get any way well and mobile again, I intend to have a go. It's the only thing in footie I've never got around to that I wanted to do.
We have had various international footie events here with the Liberty Cup etc (we had US teams etc) so we're well capable of doing it. We certainly have all the facilities.
This is the kind of thing ideal for smallish towns. It wouoldn't really work in big urban centres as it would be kinda lost.

[Snoop Drog]

I believe the new pope has a couple of caps for the Vatican City: A big pointy one that he wears on official occassions and a little round skull cap that he wears around the house...


I dunno, I struggle with the notion of Vatican being a real country in football terms. No one but clerics live there and I doubt that there is anyone with a Vatican passport (I take it there is such a thing??) who doesn't have dual nationality. It seems to me like an alternative for Italians who can't make the national team, unlike "English-Irish" players who at least have genuine Irish heritage (Ok Cascarino, you are an obvious exception- you could probably make the Vatican team with a surname like that though...).

IMO Greenland is a bit different and I think there is a valid case for them being FIFA members (would they be part of UEFA or North America??)

[Hibs4Ever]

[QUOTE=Snoop Drog]I believe the new pope has a couple of caps for the Vatican City: A big pointy one that he wears on official occassions and a little round skull cap that he wears around the house...


I dunno, I struggle with the notion of Vatican being a real country in football terms. No one but clerics live there and I doubt that there is anyone with a Vatican passport (I take it there is such a thing??) who doesn't have dual nationality. It seems to me like an alternative for Italians who can't make the national team, unlike "English-Irish" players who at least have genuine Irish heritage (Ok Cascarino, you are an obvious exception- you could probably make the Vatican team with a surname like that though...).

IMO Greenland is a bit different and I think there is a valid case for them being FIFA members (would they be part of UEFA or North America??)[/QUOTE]


I'd assume UEFA since they're under Danish rule

[Bluebeard]

Fair play to you Gerrit for bringing it up, many football fans will be happy to watch any football festival if they can. I know that the alternative world cup final (between FIFA's two lowest ranked teams) has become a bit of an event in recent years, especially for the independent Adventure traveller types, and it's something I'd like to see one day.

Incidentally, wouldn't it be Las Isles Malvinas, rather than the Falkland Islands that are participating (please do not take this as a cue for vehemnt discussion of that particular war / dispute).

Also, it might be remembered that less than 100 years ago, applications to FIFA from Ireland, Wales and Scotland were turned down as we were all considered to be part of one country

Come on Western Sahara!

[Poor Student]

Incidentally, wouldn't it be Las Isles Malvinas, rather than the Falkland Islands that are participating (please do not take this as a cue for vehemnt discussion of that particular war / dispute).

Why? Wouldn't it be a team made up of locals and aren't Falkland natives at British as can be?

[Kerry Blue]

Actually Gerrit one regret I do have from my footie days is not getting around to organising a festival here in Beeslow involving Celtic countries - Isle of Man, Scotland, Norn Iron, Wales, Cornwall and Brittany.
It was one ambition I had. I hoped to make it a kind of seven a side thing for men, women, boys and girls plus other festivities like music and cultural events etc.
It would be a great boost to local tourism too.
If I ever get any way well and mobile again, I intend to have a go. It's the only thing in footie I've never got around to that I wanted to do.
We have had various international footie events here with the Liberty Cup etc (we had US teams etc) so we're well capable of doing it. We certainly have all the facilities.
This is the kind of thing ideal for smallish towns. It wouoldn't really work in big urban centres as it would be kinda lost.

Why not get involved with Pan Celtic about organising that. It sounds a great idea. It used to be held regularly in Tralee a few years ago and was a good festival. It's in Letterkenny this year and I bet football would be a nice addition.
Check it out here:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~panceltic2002/

[Gerrit]

Yeah, I wanted to watch Bhutan-Montserrat instead of Brazil-France, unfortunately no TV station broadcasted it live so I had to please myself with some images broadcasted in delay. But still, must be ace to attend such a game, my heart was in Bhutan more than in Paris that day.

Greenland has the choice between CONCACAF and UEFA, but given the fact that they're culturally more Danish than North American these days (definitely their FA is) I think they'll go for UEFA.

The Falkland Islands compete under their English name. The FA, the clubs in their league, and their players, are all British organisations/clubs/citizens legally and culturally, so they use the English name for tournaments. No Argentina-minded player would want to play for them, because by doing so he'd agree with the islands' special statute seperate from Argentina. The Falklands football team is definitely British.

[mypost]

You're out of line mypost. Show more tolerance to other people's views in this forum.

Imo, I did nothing wrong. International football suffers from bad PR as it is when the top countries play, so why cheapen it further by having a "World Cup" made up of non-entities. I'm sure that will go down well with the G-14. Football is a much loved sport, so even considering the idea that weaker nations should be rewarded for being weak (i.e Gerrit's idea) is both preposterous and unpalatable to many people. There is an elite standard for a reason. The World Cup Finals is made up of 32 nations, some world-class, some thereabouts, some average, and some no-hopers. That's football. 20 years ago, Greece, Turkey, Norway, Ireland, USA were all extremely poor sides, who had next to no hope of doing anything in International football. Today, the USA are 10th in the world, Ireland have been to 3 World Cups, Turkey finished 3rd in the last World Cup, and Greece are European Champions. So teams can reach a decent standard. Under Gerrit's idea, the rest could afford to swim in mediocrity, and have no ambition, knowing that they have their own World Cup to look forward to.

I know I'll be told the usual, that what I have said is rubbish, but if it's so rubbish, why don't TPTB consider Gerrit's idea? Because it's no more than fantasy.

[Gerrit]

USA, Ireland, Norway etc could grow to their current standards, but they had no one telling them they weren't allowed to play.

What do average people in Northern Cyprus or the Sahara do wrong, or what have they got to do with the doubtful politics of their government? Still, these people are blocked from playing and thus have no chance of improving (like Ireland, Norway, USA) because of politics. That is an injustice, and that's something the NF Board tries to fight. What would you say if Ireland were blocked by FIFA because of political reasons, knowing well that none of the players have anything to do with it, but still seeing their chance of further improvement and (which is even worse) participation being taken away?




Also, your idea will make football an elite game, where only the gifted and skilled ones can perform their beloved sport, whereas who is less lucky in terms of football skills just has to step aside, give up his sport and watch the more fortunate play.

You say "International football suffers from bad PR as it is when the top countries play, so why cheapen it further by having a "World Cup" made up of non-entities".
First of all, by mentionning PR you approach football as a business instead of a sport. Business includes 'only the strong survive', while the basic idea of sport is socialising, bringing people together. This means that PR should never be an issue, but that the issue should be: involving as many people as possible in the event and make it a social celebration.
Your idea will take away the social power of sports, and instead turn it into an emotionless business thing where only the elite is invited. That approach is completely the opposite of what sports should be about.

I do not reward players for being weak. I do want everyone who loves football to have a chance to play. If there chances are blocked by whatever reason (for example political reasons beyond their control, or because organisations and federations only care about glory and how to turn glory into financial rewards), then it's time for the blocked ones to form a group and fight the injustice that stops them from playing.

This does not mean you cannot enjoy your powerful glorious players (who are paid way too much for practising a hobby, these wages being another negative point of your football-is-business approach), all we (myself and other fans of the amateur game) want is to have a chance of participating as well, in the shadow of the big teams.
Tell me please what is wrong with that? Tell me please in what way we do the big teams and their fans harm? Tell me, is it that bad that Ronaldo and Beckham will only make 800000 euro/week instead of a million, because some tiny bit of media attention may go to the less glorious teams and tournaments?

I'd say: wake up and smell the coffee, and learn to look below the surface, because you're missing out on a great amount of football pleasure that approaches football as it should be approached: a social event that brings people together, united by love for the game.



I rest my case.

[Aberdonian Stu]

Yeah, I wanted to watch Bhutan-Montserrat instead of Brazil-France, unfortunately no TV station broadcasted it live so I had to please myself with some images broadcasted in delay. But still, must be ace to attend such a game, my heart was in Bhutan more than in Paris that day.

Eh wasn't that game held during 2002, and would thus been a few hours before the Brazil-Germany final in Yokohama?

[Gerrit]

My mistake, I was mixing up France and Japan, was thinking France's WC was in 2002. Stupid mistake which will haunt my "football data machine" image for the rest of my days

[lopez]

Spain's a top gaff for all these alternative 'countries'. Just around Christmas there were around seven teams playing FIFA nations. Galicia played its first game since the 20s and beat Uruguay 3-2. Frankly, it's great letting in the cr*p countries, but if you let Euzkadi, Catalunya, Galicia, and Andalucia into the EC/WC along with Bavaria, Prussia, Lombardy and Piedmont, you can forget about ever seeing another major tournament with Ireland in it.

[sylvo]

Are The peoples Republic of Cork in this new World Cup.

[hamish]

The new edition (March) of World Soccer Magazine has a good article on the New Federation Board - Greenland etc are featured. It's part of a series which will be continued in coming editions.

Fascinating article. Greenland has 4,000 registered players.

Gerrit will absolutely love this - maybe he wrote it!! Actually someone called Steve Menary did.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Actually Gerrit one regret I do have from my footie days is not getting around to organising a festival here in Beeslow involving Celtic countries - Isle of Man, Scotland, Norn Iron, Wales, Cornwall and Brittany.
It was one ambition I had. I hoped to make it a kind of seven a side thing for men, women, boys and girls plus other festivities like music and cultural events etc.
It would be a great boost to local tourism too.
If I ever get any way well and mobile again, I intend to have a go. It's the only thing in footie I've never got around to that I wanted to do.
We have had various international footie events here with the Liberty Cup etc (we had US teams etc) so we're well capable of doing it. We certainly have all the facilities.
This is the kind of thing ideal for smallish towns. It wouoldn't really work in big urban centres as it would be kinda lost.

sir hamish

Do you remember the Pan-Celtic Folk Music Festivals of the 1970's where Alan Stivell became Famous? If they were still being held you could organise a footie tournament in tandem with it.

I'd personally like to see defunct countries taking part in a football tournament sometime... an ex-Yugoslavia Selection and ex-USSR selection and an East Germany and ex-Czechoslovakia selection

[hamish]

sir hamish

Do you remember the Pan-Celtic Folk Music Festivals of the 1970's where Alan Stivell became Famous? If they were still being held you could organise a footie tournament in tandem with it.

I'd personally like to see defunct countries taking part in a football tournament sometime... an ex-Yugoslavia Selection and ex-USSR selection and an East Germany and ex-Czechoslovakia selection

"Hamish" will do BTW CTID - the "sir" bit was brought back on 'cos a real Hamish had already nabbed it for his email address.

Yep. I do indeed. Thought you'd be too young to remember that era. Alan Stivell was all the rage when Celtic rock/Horslips etc was at its zenith. RTE used to show him a lot. Must dig out the old LPs I have of him.
Glad to see a Folk revival underway (as if it ever went away) - lots of it every weekend on BBC 3 or BBC 4 these days.

That was the idea I had/have alright. Beeslow FC hosted the Liberty Cup a few years ago with US teams etc involved and I think such a tournament would be great for a small town.
Yep, you'd need the cultural side too with music, parades, dance and so on to go with the football to attract people who might not be totally into football. It would have to be a Summer event. The Horse Fair in October is always a rainy cold affair and too crowded anyway to have a footie event in tandem.
Such a tournament would get lots of media attention and be a welcome boost to this hard hit town.
I'd go for Irish/Norn Iron/Scottish/Isle of Man/Welsh/Cornish/Breton/US teams - maybe expand it to include Irish clubs from abroad - Argentina/Finland/Germany etc in later years. We would have womens events too plus underage if successful.

Before I forget, CTID, the lads in the club told me (at the Galway v Bohs game here last week) that they're very keen to enter the EL u-21 league next season or the season after, if allowed. They're planning to build another stand running the length of the pitch with seats and have terrific floodlights and other facilities too.
Big problem is - and, Jesus, I've told them a 1000 times - they just have to improve the pitch to EL standards. It's not that it's a mud heap or anything but it needs improving.

When Athlone get promoted this season, you'll be over here the season after and I'll take you on a tour of the ground if you've time - that's unless you get relegated.

That "ex-Commie" event you suggested? Do you think there'd be interest in it? Seriously??LOL

[CollegeTillIDie]

Well I have a grá for Horslips and am adding their CD's to my collection to replace the Vinyl LP's I got of theirs in the late 1970's and early 1980's. I am also converting my Czech girlfriend into a Horslips fan quite successfully too

That "ex-Commie" event you suggested? Do you think there'd be interest in it? Seriously??LOL

Well if it was over 35's selections of former greats I think it would draw crowds for sure!

[CollegeTillIDie]

World Soccer .... the greatest English language football magazine!

[twoenz]

Some of the best football writing among those pages.

I thought that the article was good on the NF Board, even though I don't quite agree with having national federations when they're not quite sovereign states.