QuoteThat used to be a big game that decided who won trophies. Now its just for league placing...
If you took Henry out of Arsenal and Rooney and Van Nistelrooy out of United, where do you think they would end up in the league?
I reckon United would just about make the Champions League, and Arsenal would be lucky to get UEFA Cup.
The glass isn't half full or half empty it's just too damn big!
That used to be a big game that decided who won trophies. Now its just for league placing...
What on earth is Pascal Cygan doing at a club like Arsenal?
I thought O'Shea did well last night.
Arsenal are now p1ss poor...simply an average side that has lost all their flair and sparkle. I feel that Henry will head for the Nou Camp asap. They offered very little last night.
At least United gave it a go, but with the Dreadlocked Disaster Twins at centre half, and such outstanding creativity in central midfield with O'Shea and Fletcher(I'm removing my tongue from my cheek now) and the dancing one trick showponies out wide then their pretty decent strikers haven't a snowballs chance of scoring as many as they're capable of.
Sad reflection of how money rules now, but the only entertainment now is to see who finishes second, and who is relegated.
I fell asleep during the 1st half for 20 minutes and missed absolutely nothing.
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One of the worst games I've seen in a while, lost what little interest I had in it by the end of the first half. Strange to hear even the half time pundits admit it was poor, Sky usually spin the 'talking points' as best they can.
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looks like Spurs have a decent chance of finishing above Arsenal this season. Would be great to see Robbie Keane in the Champions League in my view.
In Trap we trust
1st half was píss poor. 2nd half, United went for the winner. Arsenal didn't show anything. They played 5 across the middle for the whole 90 minutes. They didn't even "go for it" for the last 10 minutes or anything. They just didn't want to be beaten. No real interest in winning the game.
Wonder how many points Chelsea will win the league by...
God Arsenal are stuck in some rut. Wenger has some massive restructuring to do there. What is Cygan doing playing? For as long as I can remember now Arsenal have had paper thin depth in defence. A coupl of injuries and they're relying on Cygan. Perhaps finally moving to their new stadium will free up some funds for them. The whole stadium issue has been crippling for their transfer funds.
Cygan is playing because the best left back in the world (in my opinion) is injured and one of the most promising left backs in the world in Gael Clichy is also injured. With the excpetion of Chelsea who can field Gallas when Bridge & Del Horno are injured there isn't any team in the Premiership who can fill that position with a world class player when two regulars are missing.Originally Posted by Poor Student
In fairness to Cygan, he's playing out of position and has played more games in the christmas period than any other Arsenal player. He's played his part in a sequence of over 360 minutes without conceeding a goal. It's safe to say that were the two players who normally play in that position were avaialable he wouldn't be playing.
I do think that the critisicm of him is way over the top at times as it was with Gilberto before he got injured (some of it of course is fair). He was getting slated last year for deflecting a ball past Lehmann at one stage which was completely unavoidable. He's by no means a left back, by no means world class but even the cats and dogs in the street can see how is physical presence at corners and free kicks have greatly improved Arsenal's defensive solidity over the last number of weeks particulary as most of the goals we conceeded were from set plays. He's never once cribbed about not playing regulary and gives his best - I've not a single problem with Pascal Cygan as a squad member.
As for transfer funds, well they have always been available but the manager doesn't want to spend it and hasn't spent big since Wiltord in 2000 - even the Reyes deal was only an inital outlay of 5 million so it's nothing new and not a recent stadium development (in fact he spent more on Hleb this year). Arsenal are not as short on money as some sides of the media suggest - the stadium is locked in a long term deal with the bank and the recent sales of the housing at the redevelopment area of Highbury has boosted the coffers significantly. Season ticket sales have come in a year in advance and the leasing of long term corporate boxes and club level seating has ensured the bank loan is in order for the forseeable future.
Wenger has decided to dismantle the 2004 team slowly but surely and has bought youth and is sticking with it and like him I do believe they'll come good too but it's fustrating to watch at the moment. I really do think however that it's the mix of experience that's letting us down badly this season i.e. Henry, Pires, Ljungberg, Campbell and Bergkamp are not playing at the levels they usually do. Arsenal are playing with a squad of average age 21 with the likes of Fabregas, Toure, Reyes, Senderos, Flamini, Hleb, Cole, Clichy, Van Persie, Eboue all under 24 and almost all of these will be going to the World Cup as full internationals or will be full internationals by the turn of the year.
There's a great foundation there in my opinion and when Wenger moves on in 2007 - someone is going to get the benefit of this team who despite all the negativity are only 3 points off a Champions League spot with 18 or so games to go.
I'll stick my neck on the line and say I think Arsenal will finish in the top 4 (and above Spurs AGAIN! ).
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Faqir play Karlos good reply there. I think it will be nip and tuck between Arsenal and Spurs for the 4th spot and If spurs can improve their away form slighly they could do it. However if I was a betting man I would say Arsenal will do it in the end as Henry is worth a huge amount of points. Its going to be some game at Highbury.
In Trap we trust
Karlos I accept that Cygan is out of position but he has been a poor signing in general and let Arsenal down many times. Arsenal have lacked depth in defence for many years now. Touré himself was only an emergency conversion to centre back when Arsenal only had Campbell, Cygan and the relatively untested at the time Senderos left. Coverage at right back is similarly poor with only Lauren who some may argue is a converted winger. If you have someone as poor as Cygan to fill in the void even if you have two left backs injured then you need to dig deeper. I can only assume Wenger does not really have the funds to spread around as he has allowed this precarious lack of cover in defence to continue for sometime.
I agree with you that there is a deal of young talent at Arsenal and I also believe that they will finish 4th but I don't think it is good enough for a club of Arsenal to have such a slump in a transitional phase. Again I reckon if the big funds were really available this transition wouldn't have to take place so slowly.
I agree Neill. In some ways I'm delighted as it is now as it will bring back the real spirit of the North London Derby which has somewhat lost it's importance in recent years due to Arsenal's dominence. Spurs is always the game I want to win most and with it being potentially the second last game at highbury should either team reach the fa cup semi's, it could be an explosive end to the season.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Some good points, and fair play for your devout sense of loyalty to your club.
I'd question the Ashley Cole=World Class comparison, and while I'll agree with you that he's one of the best around today, World Class for me is in the Maldini, Roberto Carlos, Andy Brehme, Everaldo mould.
I also don't see how anybody can admire Cygan. No two ways about it, he is absolute manure. But obviously a favourite of Wengers.
I also think that unless ye do spend some of that alleged money that ye have lying around, then Spurs, Wigan and Bolton will be ahead of ye the way ye're playing...
Cygan was never signed as a first choice defender. For what he cost and what he's been (a loyal squad member) he's been fine. He's been a model pro during that time too admist some terribly inaccurate reporting on his performances.
Toure was playing centre back at International Level for Ivory Coast when he signed. He was only an emergency in the sence that he wasn't considered first choice ahead of Keown and Campbell (but not Cygan). Wenger gave him run outs off the bench in midfield positions but he has always been a mobile centre back. Similary with Senderos, he's behind Campbell and Toure for a centre back slot but wouldn't be behind Cygan. He played centre back for most of least season when Cygan WAS fit but Campbell was injured. If Senderos had an once of left back in him, I'm sure he'd be starting instead.
I don't agree that coverage at right back is poor - we have two full internationals at right back in Lauren and Eboue (as well as Toure who can slot in there). We have 3 Full internationals at centre back in Campbell, Toure & Senderos and a forth as back up in Cygan aswell as full international at Left Back in Cole with french under 21 player as cover. We have six full internationals fighting for 4 defensive spots, an under 21 player and Cygan.
Again name me another club besides Chelsea who can fill a position with a world class left back when there two first choices are unavailable?
My biggest problem has always been the mangers neglect to work as diligently as say George Graham on our defensive play. Wenger wants defenders to be offensive players, Graham wanted them to be defenders. We've seen a slice of George Graham in the last four Arsenal games and the attacking play is weaker as a result but they ain't conceeding either.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Take your point on those other players mentioned but I think he's the best in the world at the moment. I wouldn't swap him for anything out there.
I admire his commitment, his loyalty and his willingness to try his best. I've made no attempt to big him up - he's far from a top player but does an adequate job most of the time. He's an easy target when things go wrong. I've watched him enough to know what qualities he does bring as a squad player and nothing more.
I disagree, if we continue to stop conceeding goals then the goals will come at the other end. There is far too much fire power in that team. Don't get me wrong I hope to christ we buy and I'm fustrated as fook watching us play but I see the bigger picture long term.
I have seen the AGM reports though and there is money available but Le Boss just can't seem to make his mind up on who he wants. People are quick to forget we had an 18 million bid accepted for Julio Baptista last summer even after we shelled out 8 million on Hleb.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
I agree with you that Cole is a huge loss to the team. He's due back shortly, but too many of the players that make ye tick are off form. And have been for a while. People aren't afraid of playing Arsenal any more. Thats not good for the game, and maybe ye should start questioning the almighty Wenger a little bit more. He has to shoulder a lot of the blame for this, yet nobody dare criticise him. Why??
How long is Cole out for? Arsenal are gonna be screwed when the African Nations comes around. Without Cole, and Lauren, Eboue and Toure off with national team, the only defenders they've left are Cygan, Campbell, Senderos, Clichy, and Hoyte.
The glass isn't half full or half empty it's just too damn big!
Cole is back Jan 16th and Lauren is retired from Internationals.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Agree totally as I said above. Especialy the experienced players Henry, pires, Bergkamp and Campbell. The only exception to that was been Lehmann who is in outstanding form..
Wenger is the most successful manager in the history of the club and is given alot of grace in this regard (as Ferguson, Mourinho & Benitez to a lesser extent are). There are many who questioned and critiscised him before (including Arsenal fans) and he's always pulled through to win trophies. In 1998 he was laughed at for thinking he could win the league 12 points behind Utd, questioned over the sale of Overmars and Petit in 2000 (and buying Henry with the money who turned out to be the all time goalscoring legend!) and again in 2003 he was ridiculed for saying he felt his team could go unbeaten - he's been questioned again now.
Many Arsenal fans don't criticise him too heavily as he's generally seen as someone who knows what he's doing and he's proven that and there's nothing to say he won't be right in the long run again. I'm glad our fans don't jump on the 'sack the manager' bandwagon at the drop of a hat.
I've always felt he would walk away in 2007 after leading us into the new stadium something which he been instrumental in and think it will be the right time and the club with it's playing staff will be in a far healthier state than 10 years ago. He's overseen the most successful and entertaining years of the club and he can still win 3 trophies this year. We all know what happened the last time someone said 'you can't win nothing with kids'. I haven't lost faith in him yet.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
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