Dublin City aims for Europe

**dcfcsteve** · 10/01/2006, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Raheny Red

FFS lads! I wrote this post (5th post of this thread). Forget why they shouldn't be in the league now....they are here now so just face it

!

DCFC seem to have great vision for the future. Good luck to them, they may not succeed but at least they are trying to reach for the top! If they do fail in their attempt they will at least know they tried and gave it their. What's the point being involved in football if you are not going to set high standards??

Fine - but let them stop with all the bleeding heart "ohhh, but we're a new team" ballax then !

**Breifne** · 10/01/2006, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Fine - but let them stop with all the bleeding heart "ohhh, but we're a new team" ballax then !

I hate this kinda crap going on, which seems to be almost every second post about our club on this site. The simple facts of the case are that we are not Home Farm.

Every single Dublin City fan on this site had there first experience of the club well after (at least three years) after the change from Home Farm, so i don't feel i have to justify anything to anyone, i picked my club to support based on basic geography (round the corner from where i lived at the time) and on pure entertainment factor. (I'm one of those who were enticed by a free night out, it does work).

If Mr Seery pulled a fast one to get his "franchise" into the league, the fact is that he was allowed, so therefore in my estimation, the league (the member clubs are the league) are as responsible for admitting this "franchise" as he is.

Every club in the league can voice their opinion on any matter at any time at league management meetings. If they didn't that's they're fault. They represent your clubs as well as ours, so stop bitching at us, we had nothing to do with it, its your clubs reps to the League who passed the whole thing.

**Magicme** · 10/01/2006, 12:09 PM

I know what you mean Bref....everytime I open my mouth to say something positive about the Mons I get the same sorta crap. Its a petty but when some of them grow up they will realise that.

**NY Hoop** · 10/01/2006, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Magicme

I know what you mean Bref....everytime I open my mouth to say something positive about the Mons I get the same sorta crap. Its a petty but when some of them grow up they will realise that.

Dont flatter yourself. Its not personal. Its just your 2 clubs shouldnt be in the league and would be better served at the non league level.

KOH

**dcfcsteve** · 10/01/2006, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Breifne

The simple facts of the case are that we are not Home Farm.

If they're facts, please explain - with dates and events....

Originally Posted by Breifne

If Mr Seery pulled a fast one to get his "franchise" into the league, the fact is that he was allowed, so therefore in my estimation, the league (the member clubs are the league) are as responsible for admitting this "franch/ise" as he is.

Every club in the league can voice their opinion on any matter at any time at league management meetings. If they didn't that's they're fault. They represent your clubs as well as ours, so stop bitching at us, we had nothing to do with it, its your clubs reps to the League who passed the whole thing.

Ballax- he DIDN'T pull a fast one. He just made a name change to an existing team, which is perfectly withion the rules ! No motion went before the League saying 'Home Farm are leaving now, and I want to replace them with a new club called Dublin City'.

The 'Home Farm' name proper disappeared from senior football in Ireland at the end of the 1994/5 season. At that point, Seery changed the name of the club to 'Home Farm Everton' - to reflect your associations with that English club.

When that relationship came to and end he changed the name of the club from Home Farm Everton to 'Home Farm Fingal' for the 1998/9 season, to try to tap into that large demographic area.

Then he stumbled upon another idea, and changed the name of your club from Home Farm Fingal to 'Dublin City' in 2001/2.

On none of those 3 changes did he AT ANY POINT say to the league that he was introducing a different club. They were presented to the Eircom League as merely name changes. There was therefore no decision for the League to take. It was the same as EMFA changing to 'Kilkenny City' in 1989/90, or 'Newcastle United' becoming 'Newcastle West' in 1986/7. All were presented to the league as nothing more then NAME CHANGES.

STOP DELUDING YOURSELVES !!!! It's only Dublin City fans who seem to think you're a new club. No-one else buys this - and neither does Seery, judging by the fact he registered you with the league as only a name change. It's the same CEO and the same league slot right the way through. How exactly does that make you a new club ??

You're claiming you're a new club for strategic reasons - as that makes it much easier to present yourself to people for fundraising, rather than admit you've been around in senior football under various names for over 30years and have hardly rocked the world. Stop deluding yourselves, and then you'll find that a lot of the criticism of your club disappears.

**Magicme** · 10/01/2006, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Dont flatter yourself. Its not personal. Its just your 2 clubs shouldnt be in the league and would be better served at the non league level.

KOH

Yawn....anyone else bored of this yet??

**dcfcsteve** · 10/01/2006, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Magicme

I know what you mean Bref....everytime I open my mouth to say something positive about the Mons I get the same sorta crap. Its a petty but when some of them grow up they will realise that.

I've never read of anyone questioning Monaghan United's place in the league (ignoring NY Hoop's response above).

The 2 teams are clearly very different. Monaghan were elected as Monaghan United, and have been in the league continuously as that team since 1985.

You can go all the way back to Drumcondra FC's election into the league in 1928/9 to find the origins of Dublin City. Drumcondra were replaced in the league in 1972/3 by 'Home Farm Drums' - playing in the same stadium. Hoem Farm Drums changed their name to 'Home Farm' the following season, and went through a further 3 name changes since then to become Dublin City. However - their fans have deluded themselves that they are somehow a new team - despite the fact their own CEO only registered with the league for yet another name change in their long history. They now parade this 'new team' mantra around as a badge of honour and a justification for their limited resources, whilst their CEO uses it to attract support and fundraising.

The comparison of Monaghan with Dublin City is therefore light years apart...

The above info regarding Dublin City is FACT ! If anyone wishes to disagree with them, please do so with FACTS - not emotional ballax.

**pineapple stu** · 10/01/2006, 12:30 PM

Does the eL section moderator do any work at all?

**Magicme** · 10/01/2006, 12:34 PM

Thanks Steve but have had it from others. But hey thats life as a footie fan, you all ways run into some guff from other fans....all part of the fun!

**mypost** · 10/01/2006, 12:39 PM

"Dublin City aims for Europe"

Dublin City go nowhere, as they don't exist.

Meanwhile in 11 months, the only place Home Farm are going, is the First Division!!

**Ringo** · 10/01/2006, 2:05 PM

Originally Posted by mypost

"Dublin City aims for Europe"
Dublin City go nowhere, as they don't exist.

Meanwhile in 11 months, the only place Home Farm are going, is the First Division!!

At least we've a chance, you'll be in the LL by next season.

. We existed for the play off's

**NY Hoop** · 10/01/2006, 2:18 PM

Originally Posted by Ringo

At least we've a chance, you'll be in the LL by next season.

. We existed for the play off's

The LL is where your club belongs. You cant deny that.

KOH

**Bald Student** · 10/01/2006, 3:56 PM

Where your logic falls down Steve is that Drumcondra, Home Farm and DCFC are now clearly three seperate clubs so new clubs must have formed at some stage.

The old Home Farm split into two seperate clubs a few years ago. The junior set up kept the name Home Farm and the senior set up kept the league place and changed its name eventually to Dublin City. To argue wheather that is a new club or an old club is arguing over semantics. This argument might have been interesting a few years ago when the changes were going on but is is old now. DCFC are in the league and in the premier on footballing merit.

**dcfcsteve** · 10/01/2006, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Where your logic falls down Steve is that Drumcondra, Home Farm and DCFC are now clearly three seperate clubs so new clubs must have formed at some stage.

The old Home Farm split into two seperate clubs a few years ago. The junior set up kept the name Home Farm and the senior set up kept the league place and changed its name eventually to Dublin City. To argue wheather that is a new club or an old club is arguing over semantics. This argument might have been interesting a few years ago when the changes were going on but is is old now. DCFC are in the league and in the premier on footballing merit.

I've NEVER said that Dublin City don't deserve to be in the Premier on-merit, as they clearly do. What I am saying is that - if the club and its fans insist on pretending for their own purposes that they aren't Home Farm under another name (and the continuity of league place can only suggest that they are) then that questions their right to be in the league on administrative and legislative grounds - not on-the-pitch merit.

They're different clubs only in so far as, for example, a person changing their name and image is a different person. Jordan is still Katie Price, for example, and can't erase that part of her history. She wasn't magically born afresh in her late teens. Just like Dublin City didn't magically appear from nowhere 4 years ago. They had a previous life as 'Home Farm lots of things' from which there is a clear line of continuity. And who's to say they won't change name again at some point ?

If it's the same person (Seery) doing the same thing (football) with the same league place, and pretty much everything else is the same bar yet another name change- then it's clearly the same club.

Kilkenny City don't pretend they didn't exist prior to their name change from EMFA in 1989 ! This Great Gatsby-esque idea of changing the name of a club and hoping it erases all your previous history is just frankly ridiculous ! Dublin City did not just magically appear in 2001 - they have a past under a number of different names ! Dublin City fans choose to ignore this as it suits them and their CEO to do so.

And it's not just a question of semantics. If you accept that a club becomes a totally separate and new club purely by renaming itself - without having to leave and rejoin the league - then that's a recipe for disaster. Get into trouble with the league and have an impending points deduction ? No problem - just change your name and claim that it was all the previous team, not you.....

**Maynard** · 10/01/2006, 5:43 PM

Ok, here goes...Alright DCFCSteve Dublin City FC is exactly the same club as Home Farm/Home Farm Everton/Home Farm Fingal ok?

So how about you F U C K OFF now eh?

(god I'm so glad I got that off my chest, these past four years of deluding myself has really been hard, I feel like a new man, like a heavy burden has been lifted from my shoulders, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc)

**dcfcsteve** · 10/01/2006, 6:03 PM

Originally Posted by Maynard

Ok, here goes...Alright DCFCSteve Dublin City FC is exactly the same club as Home Farm/Home Farm Everton/Home Farm Fingal ok?

The dawning of reality

Think I've just found myself a new signature.....

**Bald Student** · 10/01/2006, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

And it's not just a question of semantics. If you accept that a club becomes a totally separate and new club purely by renaming itself - without having to leave and rejoin the league - then that's a recipe for disaster. Get into trouble with the league and have an impending points deduction ? No problem - just change your name and claim that it was all the previous team, not you.....

No Steve, a club becomes a totally seperate club by seperating itself totally from the club it was prevoiusly a part of. The issue of avoiding sanctions does not arise here because when Home Farm split into two clubs the senior set up took the points and league postition that Home Farm had at the time. The reason I dismiss this argument as semantics is because we all agree on the facts of what actually happened we only disagree on what terms to use to describe it.
One thing I do find particularly disengenuous is the "Founded 2002" on DCFC's crest. The club was clearly founded a few years before that but changes it's name to DCFC in 2002.

**dcfcsteve** · 10/01/2006, 6:07 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

No Steve, a club becomes a totally seperate club by seperating itself totally from the club it was prevoiusly a part of. The issue of avoiding sanctions does not arise here because when Home Farm split into two clubs the senior set up took the points and league postition that Home Farm had at the time. The reason I dismiss this argument as semantics is because we all agree on the facts of what actually happened we only disagree on what terms to use to describe it.
One thing I do find particularly disengenuous is the "Founded 2002" on DCFC's crest. The club was clearly founded a few years before that but changes it's name to DCFC in 2002.

So why did that totally separate club not register itself as such to the league ? It only requested a change of name - not status.

Regardless - at the very least Dublin City began life as Home Farm Everton in 1995. So no matter what why you look at it, Dublin City CANNOT factually claim that it didn't exist prior to 2002.

**Bald Student** · 10/01/2006, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

So why did that totally separate club not register itself as such to the league ? It only requested a change of name - not status.

Because the league is only interested in the senior set-up of the club, where there was continuity. As an analogy, UCD's Men's and Women's clubs are currently administrated seperately. If we were to merge at some point in the future it should not affect UCD's league position, similarly if UCD's men's club decided to split into two new clubs (say seperate senior and intervarsity clubs) both sets of teams should be allowed to remain in their respective leagues despite the fact that at least one club, if not both, are 'new'.

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Regardless - at the very least Dublin City began life as Home Farm Everton in 1995. So no matter what why you look at it, Dublin City CANNOT factually claim that it didn't exist prior to 2002.

We'll agree on that point anyway, it's clearly done for marketing purposes. It's a white lie to promote the club.

**dcfcsteve** · 10/01/2006, 6:28 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Because the league is only interested in the senior set-up of the club, where there was continuity. As an analogy, UCD's Men's and Women's clubs are currently administrated seperately. If we were to merge at some point in the future it should not affect UCD's league position, similarly if UCD's men's club decided to split into two new clubs (say seperate senior and intervarsity clubs) both sets of teams should be allowed to remain in their respective leagues despite the fact that at least one club, if not both, are 'new'.

You're losing me a bit here Bald Student.

It was only the 'senior' Home Farm club that was ever in 'senior' football - so the junior branch splitting off from them made no difference whatsoever to their senior status. Hence the ongoing senior club still claimed Home Farm's senior heritage (e.g. 1974 FAI Cup winners) as it was the same club before and after FROM A SENIOR PERSPECTIVE. The junior perspective is irrelevant to a discussion about senior clubs in a senior league. Your the one who's being semantic here.