What happens when we "kick the bucket"?

**pete** · 21/12/2005, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

btw If we don't get to heaven, are we "Lost"?

I think thats what been suggested.

**pineapple stu** · 21/12/2005, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Every religion believes its the best one as bit like every football fan who supports the best team. Do people really believe everything that was written in the bible or do they just pick the bits they like?

Read a book on this - "Truth and Fiction in the Da Vinci Code", which looked at the Bible and what it did and didn't say. There's more Gospels than were included in the Bible, including one - the Coptic Gospel of Thomas - which features Jesus as a kid "withering" everyone who annoys him. Would be a great power!

But on the Four Gospels we do have, they were all written 100 years or so after Jesus' death, so the stories probably have changed a bit. But back then, when people were largely illiterate, I'd say oral stories would have been well retained, which would mean that a fair bit of what's related did actually happen. (Whether the important bits happened is another story!).

Jesus was referred to in some - though not many - Roman writings of the day. There was a census in and around the time he was born (I think it was in 4BC, which is why that's the commonly given year of birth for him). It's reckoned unlikely that the family moved to Bethlehem for the census as it would have been a bit awkward to move the entire country to their fore-fore-fore-father's place of birth just to count people, but then again, the remnants of a similar system exist still in Switzerland.

Also, Jesus is mentioned in the Koran as a prophet who was crucified. I think he then turns into a bird and flies up to Heaven, which is probably a metaphor for his soul rising to Heaven. I mention this to suggest that the different religions mightn't be as different and irreconcilable as you'd think.

(Not pretending I'm an expert here - correct me if needs be)

Originally Posted by finlma

There are way too many questions when science can really prove how we came into being.

I think most scientists will agree that we still know nothing about we came into being. They know the mechanics of it - the Big Bang, the birds and the bees and all that - but have no idea about the mechanics of the mechanics. Stephen Hawking - who has done a fair bit of research into the Big Bang - notes that science is usually interested in the immediate aftermath of the Big Bang; the first 0.0000001 seconds or so. He is happy to believe that anything before that is the work of God, which isn't science's business.

Originally Posted by Pete

Sure what has religion ever done for us anyway? If you were an alien looking down on the planet you'd probably think the religions were the armies of the planet.

That's true. And what's worse is that each side - let's call them George Bush v the extremists - believes they're in the right when they're both quite clearly in the wrong. It's at times like this you hope there is a hell so Bush can spend a while there realising he was wrong. Or do I now go to hell for saying that...?

Originally Posted by Peadar

I'd like to ask a question of my own, what do people think is the purpose of an afterlife?

Religion would say that to ask that question is to look into the mind of God, which we must never do. In other words, who are we to wonder why there's an afterlife? If there is a God, and he has decided to make an afterlife, why question it?

Originally Posted by Peadar

Ill put it this way folks, you know that you're alive now and there's no way to prove afterlife exisits, so you should make sure that you enjoy life to the full.

Go out, enjoy life, procreate and try not to p!ss others off.

And that's definitely true. Be nice to each other, concentrate on the now and you'll be grand*.

* - don't hold it against me if that turns out to be wrong!

**Green Army Girl** · 21/12/2005, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

How do we now they made it to heaven at all?

btw If we don't get to heaven, are we "Lost"?

Well they wouldnt have been cannonised by the Church (i think that what it is called) we have no proof they made it to heaven but because of wat i believe i believe they did, when it comes down to it its just faith in your own religion.

I believe West Ham are better than any other club, now if thats not faith wat is

**Lionel Ritchie** · 21/12/2005, 1:13 PM

Thomas' Gospel -which I believe was written in aramaic -is the one referred to in the movie Stigmata where Patricia Arquette (mmm mmm absolutley I would) gets cuts and grazes and starts babbling in tongues.

As a historical document it's said to be at least as credible and probable as a couple of the recognised gospels -but contains some instructions purportedly from Jesus that kind of fcuks up your gameplan if you're setting your stall out as a brokeridge house between man and God -which is pretty much what the Catholic Church -and plenty others to be fair -do.

As all movies do -the play around with the facts considerably -more here

**hamish** · 21/12/2005, 1:14 PM

Originally Posted by Green Army Girl

I believe West Ham are better than any other club, now if thats not faith wat is

LOL- totally agree with you there GAG. Hammers/Irons fan myself

**pineapple stu** · 21/12/2005, 1:43 PM

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Thomas' Gospel -which I believe was written in aramaic

There are two Gospels of Thomas, just to clarify. One is in aramaic (think you're right on that), the other is in Coptic.

**the 12 th man** · 21/12/2005, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by sirhamish

If there's a Heavan and Hell, then I'm fcuked.

Wouldn't say you'd be on your own there,you'd be in good company with a good few foot.ies

(me included

)

**hamish** · 21/12/2005, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by the 12 th man

Wouldn't say you'd be on your own there,you'd be in good company with a good few foot.ies

(me included

We're all doomed, doomed, I say.

Ah, I'd settle for a spell in Purgatory since the Pope abolished Limbo last week. At least, with Purgatory, Heaven's the next stop.

**Peadar** · 21/12/2005, 3:00 PM

Originally Posted by sirhamish

At least, with Purgatory, Heaven's the next stop.

There's a smoking ban in purgatory though.

**ken foree** · 21/12/2005, 3:58 PM

welllll there's this great book (DMT: the spirit molecule) by a u.s. doctor that describes the amazing properties of this naturally occurring molecule which is created in our pineal gland. the mysterious pineal is often referred to as 'the third eye' and was called the 'seat of the soul' by the french philosopher descartes. it's situated right between the left and right halves of the brain and is protected from the brain by a very sophisticated tissue system. melatonin (sleep molecule) is manufactured there. so is di-methyltryptamine

anyway, the first squirt of DMT is released from the pineal gland at roughly 47 days of life, the same time your sex is determined in your mother's womb. the theory proposed by dr. strassman is that this 'seeds' your consciousness, your soul entering your body. the 2nd 'natural' time DMT is released is when you die (these are measurable, known facts). in-between life and death, people might experience near-death situations, night-terror dreams, and other scenarios that may be caused by a leaky pineal: ultra-real situations with profound, often disturbing effects. strassman postulates that schizophrenia might be (in part at least) caused by DMT.

he tested subjects intravenously injected with the molecule and found/recorded amazing results. people experienced shamanistic, out of body, experiences, where they often communicated with 'higher beings' and traveled to different planes of existence, often exhilarating, often terrifying. great book, gives credence to many beliefs, and most convincingly to the hope that the soul has a biological basis.

**Marked Man** · 21/12/2005, 5:03 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Sure God always was and always shall be - that's just one of the great mysteries of religion we have to try and accept and not understand!

So we explain a mystery by means of a mystery? I'd rather just stop at the mystery I can see. If something was always around, why not the universe--in which I would include whatever it was that went bang--rather than god?

**Marked Man** · 21/12/2005, 5:09 PM

The one true religion:

http://www.venganza.org

**Poor Student** · 21/12/2005, 6:16 PM

Originally Posted by Green Army Girl

And about Paddy being a protestant if you can tell me Jesus God the whole Bible is aload of s*it then who is to say that story about St Patrick isnt.

Read up on St. Patrick. He was very real. He left two documents his "Confessions" and his "Letter to Coroticus". There's enugh known about him to paint a decent picture of his life. He was not a Catholic in the conventional sense, it is true.

As for Christ being mentioned by Romans. Christ is mentioned by only one Roman historian, Tacitus and very briefly. He is also mentioned by the Jewish historian Josephus who was exiled to Rome after the Great Jewish Revolt in 66 AD. There is not one extant directly comtemporary source of Christ. An argument often given to argue against his existence. However there's not one extant contemporary Roman historian who would have recorded him. There is a laughable long list of Romans who never mentioned him however it neglects to mention that many of them contained on the list were poets, playwrights, satirists and biographers of the emperors.

**hamish** · 21/12/2005, 6:16 PM

Originally Posted by Peadar

There's a smoking ban in purgatory though.

LOL - yep Purgatory for sure then.

Happy Christmas Peadar.

**thejollyrodger** · 21/12/2005, 6:21 PM

nothing.

**Thunderblaster** · 21/12/2005, 7:16 PM

When you are buried, the maggots and worms eats into you and you become a skeleton. Simple answer. When you are a skeleton, it doesn't matter if you were rich or poor; beautiful or ugly.

**dfx-** · 21/12/2005, 7:32 PM

All relatives that we know and those we don't all have an excuse for a biiig party and meanwhile, we all rot away in a wooden box (or burn away) and sin �.

**hamish** · 21/12/2005, 8:53 PM

Maggots, skeletons, Purgatory, no God...............

Jaysus, lads/lassies.......you're depressing the fcuk out of me.

It's Christmas, cheer up will youse.