Brian Kerr Documentary

**onenilgameover** · 17/12/2005, 8:44 AM

Originally Posted by totalfootball

Lyon are 12 points clear at the top of the French league, a league which still has 6 teams involved in Europe (England only has 5). They are unbeaten after 18 games. Lyon won their group in the Champions League, finishing 6 points ahead of second placed Real Madrid. Their points total, 16 points, was the joint top amount of points in the CL.

If you were being fair, then instead of claiming that Houllier is going to mess it up, you would admit that he has done extremely well so far.

thats alright for now and fair point...but eventually his managership will effect the players and bring the team down. Honeymoon period at the mo imho...

**TheJamaicanP.M.** · 17/12/2005, 11:22 AM

It says in today's star newpaper that Kerr blames the players for not qualifying. He says they were not good enough and accepts no responsibility for letting go of a 2 nil lead at home to Israel. While I wouldn't believe eveything I read in the papers, I've really grown to dislike Kerr. He never accepts that he made mistakes and puts forth the view that he's more tactically proficient than everyone else. While he might have lots of fans on this forum claiming that he deserved a chance as much as McCarthy, I don't buy that one. The performances were just so lacking in passion and commitment, something we couldn't accuse McCarthy's team of. I watched the video of the home game against France recently. The team was afraid. We barely threatened the French goal during the game. We played for a draw and it backfired.

Against the Swiss, Kerr (the tactical genius) dropped Graham Kavanagh. He played John O'Shea instead, a player who played well in that position against Burnley in the Carling Cup a couple of seasons ago.

O'Shea got his first meaningful touch of the ball after 27 minutes of the Swiss game. Even in the remaining minutes of the game, I saw Gary Doherty warming up and thought surely Kerr will go for it. Surely he'll take off Stephen Carr and play Doherty alongside Morrison and Elliott. No, Kerr decided to finish the Swiss game with 6 defenders on the field. For me, that epitomised the negativity of Kerr. Compare that to Mick McCarthy's first campaign which he finished with an away game in Belgium 8 years ago. McCarthy's team went out 3-2 on aggregate (a dubious goal cost them), but at least they went for it.

That squad of McCarthy's was a collection of veterans and kids, and he certainly did not have the options that Kerr had. It was that passionate performance that probably won McCarthy a new contract. The players were simply not willing to stand up for Kerr in the same way. He was unable to inspire them. When Roy Keane returned to the Irish squad and belittled the McCarthy era in a press conference, Kerr sat beside him sniggering. I just wonder did the players (many who are still loyal to McCarthy) resent Kerr's behaviour. The irony of it all is that the laugh is now on Kerr. He's going to be a bitter old man and he'll be in good company with the likes of Liam Tuohy and Eoin Hand.
One thing is for sure, my opinions will not be altered by his propaganda coup with RTE next Tuesday night.

**geysir** · 17/12/2005, 12:36 PM

i dont agree with the people who say "he was out of his depth"

Neither do I.
I don't consider Kerr was out of his depth. Possibly a lack of connection between himself and the team, possibly too cautious, possibly has not got the motivation skills that work with the players, possibly a combination of too many players off form, injured, suspended at wrong time or not enough feckin pride. Its possible that he could have come good but imo very little evidence except for that welcome tightness from time to time and the away points. After18 competitive games it is enough.
I do not take into consideration the personal "hurt he feels at losing his dream job" compared to the mountain of hurt that followed the wimpish end to our non qualification campaign.

**onenilgameover** · 17/12/2005, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

I do not take into consideration the personal "hurt he feels at losing his dream job" compared to the mountain of hurt that followed the wimpish end to our non qualification campaign.

Well said sir!

**eirebhoy** · 17/12/2005, 2:08 PM

Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

One thing is for sure, my opinions will not be altered by his propaganda coup with RTE next Tuesday night.

Imo you should leave that one open. He never out and out blamed the players and if he goes and says in Tuesday's interview that he's to blame then surely you have to change your opinion a little. I wouldn't read an article like that in the Star. I'd probably look out for the quotes if I was flicking through in the shop (then again, they're probably twisted) so whatever way RTE might present the documentary, its what Kerr says that interests me.

**Superhoops** · 17/12/2005, 2:10 PM

Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

....Against the Swiss, Kerr (the tactical genius) dropped Graham Kavanagh. He played John O'Shea instead.......... Kerr decided to finish the Swiss game with 6 defenders on the field. For me, that epitomised the negativity of Kerr

It was those two decisions that lost BK credibility, even among his most ardent fans. We had to go for that game and BK's responsibility as manager was to play a team that 'went for it'. He didnt, and the rest is history. Nothing to do with the players, the FAI or the media, it was the manager's call and he blew it.

**geysir** · 17/12/2005, 2:23 PM

He's going to be a bitter old man and he'll be in good company with the likes of Liam Tuohy and Eoin Hand.

I don't understand where you are you are coming from with the 'bitter men' references to Hand and Tuohy.
with Tuohy
http://www.nufc.com/html/liam-tuohy.html

Eoin Hand does admit to being bitter over one person with the name Dunphy, because of the persistent personal attacks that were against him by Dunphy in his column. Which in no small way contributed to Eoin being spat upon in the street and his children being bullied at school.
Brian Kerr has already entered into the annals of Irish football history before his stint as senior manager, that remains unrevised and if he stands beside Tuohy and Hand then its an honor.

**klein4** · 17/12/2005, 2:44 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Imo you should leave that one open. He never out and out blamed the players and if he goes and says in Tuesday's interview that he's to blame then surely you have to change your opinion a little. I wouldn't read an article like that in the Star. I'd probably look out for the quotes if I was flicking through in the shop (then again, they're probably twisted) so whatever way RTE might present the documentary, its what Kerr says that interests me.

I saw the hedline in the indo claiming kerr said the players were not good enough but it wasnt really backed up by the article. it was more him making the point that he pretended that missing keane and duff wasnt a big blow at the time when it was. I think the programme is a documentery on Irelands qualifying. It was probably conceived with the hope we would qualify. so I dont think it is kerr tryin to do a repeat of his late late show appearance. even the supposedly hard hitting quotes on the fai are pretty tame. When I heard about it I thought it would be some sort of everyone else was wrong but me plea but nothing I have read really backs that up. Will watch it anyway and see.

**klein4** · 17/12/2005, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by Superhoops

It was those two decisions that lost BK credibility, even among his most ardent fans. We had to go for that game and BK's responsibility as manager was to play a team that 'went for it'. He didnt, and the rest is history. Nothing to do with the players, the FAI or the media, it was the manager's call and he blew it.

I like kavanagh but he had a mare against cyprus so I wouldnt have picked him. As for playing john o shea in midfield for such a big game...that was a strange one alrite....but I didnt think he had a really bad game or anything. probably just did it to keep him away from the defence

and not wanting to gt into a big row again with the prime minister but i dont remember ireland bein that great against belgium at all....and do you not remember ireland away to croatia?? you couldnt have gotten more negative than that.

**eirebhoy** · 18/12/2005, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by klein4

I saw the hedline in the indo claiming kerr said the players were not good enough but it wasnt really backed up by the article. it was more him making the point that he pretended that missing keane and duff wasnt a big blow at the time when it was.

That is ridiculous tbh. As Brian O'Driscoll said "there's only one newspaper I'd read in this country". I think everyone could think what that one is.

Kerr said a while back that all we see of the players is their performances on the pitch. He said he see's them close up every day in training and that plays a big part in his team selection. It probably plays too big a part tbh.

**klein4** · 18/12/2005, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

That is ridiculous tbh. As Brian O'Driscoll said "there's only one newspaper I'd read in this country". I think everyone could think what that one is.
.

Le Monde?????

**OwlsFan** · 20/12/2005, 1:59 PM

Reminder - it's on tonight.

I anticipate that the FAI will be to blame for us conceding the 2 goals against Israel and not qualifying

Whatever way it pans out, it will bring back the pain of the non-qualification. I remember they did a similar one on Mick that night we lost the play-off in Brussels and Mick cried his eyes out. It was sad stuff

.

**NeilMcD** · 20/12/2005, 2:14 PM

I was nearly crying watching the feckin add for it.

**pineapple stu** · 20/12/2005, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

It says in today's star newpaper that Kerr blames the players for not qualifying. He says they were not good enough

How can you blame people for not being good enough?

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

he had us playing some quality football a lot of the time.

Ah now. Switzerland home and away (x 2)? France home? Israel? Georgia? In fact, any non-friendly game?

Ireland played their best football of the last 20 years under McCarthy. Kerr was nowhere near that quality, unfortunately.

**eirebhoy** · 20/12/2005, 3:01 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Ah now. Switzerland home and away (x 2)? France home? Israel? Georgia? In fact, any non-friendly game?

Ireland played their best football of the last 20 years under McCarthy. Kerr was nowhere near that quality, unfortunately.

We really couldn't have done much better against France at home tbf. We played better in that match than we did at home to Holland 4 years ago. Macedonia x2, Iceland, Lithuania, Romania, Belgium, Turkey. None of them had us sitting comfortable in our chairs. We finished 10 points off Romania from a group filled with minnows and players like Irwin, Cunningham, Staunton, Keane, Houghton and Townsend. Ian Harte was playing well at the time as was Mark Kennedy and Gary Kelly.

So who did we play well against in McCarty's first 2 campaigns? Liechtenstein, Macedonia (h), Croatia (h), Malta (h). Any more?

Kerr is getting way too much critisism when his time in charge was no worse than McCarthy's first 2 campaigns.

It was our performances in friendlies and when we weren't trying to protect a lead that I liked under Kerr. When we were trying to protect a lead we were usually poor but I would have gave him one more shot. The fact that we could protect leads in friendlies leads me to believe it was a psychological reason that we kept retreating back after scoring in competitives.

**drinkfeckarse** · 20/12/2005, 3:06 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Ireland played their best football of the last 20 years under McCarthy. Kerr was nowhere near that quality, unfortunately.

While I agree normally with Eirebhoy I have to disagree about Kerr having us playing some lovely stuff. We played well in France, average at home to Cyprus and that was about it IMO.

**OwlsFan** · 20/12/2005, 3:13 PM

What is the definition of "best football" ? To me as a supporter the "best football" is when my team wins. I would much prefer to follow a team that wins rather than one that plays pretty football and loses. If the team wins in style that's a bonus. Jack's Ireland was not pretty to watch but I enjoyed almost every minute of it and we also played what the theorists would describe as good football on the odd occasion (e.g. Soviet Union 1-1 in Hannover and Norn Iron 3-0 at home).

Give me an Ireland team winning and qualifying with the long ball game than an Irish team failing to qualify by the passing game. Heresy for some perhaps but who remembers the losers ?

**cheifo** · 20/12/2005, 3:13 PM

Very unfair on Eoin Hand paticularly when you consider those incredible refeering decisions that went against us paticularly in Belgium.Incidentally
has anybody seen highlights of that game in recent years?Is it as bad as I remember.