ROI rivalry

**Dassa** · 13/12/2005, 10:32 AM

I think when ts comes to rivalry it seems to be about looking at the bigger nation next door to your own nation or across the water and seeing them as your rival. This would explain NI rivalry towards ROI, ROI and Scotlands rivalry to England and Englands rivalry to Germany.

**Lionel Ritchie** · 13/12/2005, 11:03 AM

Trying to get over the anti-England baggage I've tended to indulge if not wear on my sleeve. I used belly laugh when they lost, conceded a goal, whatever. Then it faded to a wry chuckle. Now I tend to try and be happy for them.

I like England as a country, I like it's people by and large and I like a lot of their culture so I reckon why not?

But sometimes I see Gary Bushells gaping grinning maw before my eyes or that clown who does their car programmes or Johnny Vaughan and the way he's just a cnut and Robbie Williams and the way he's just a shaved ape song thieving cnut ...and I want to see them hammered ...utterly hammered.

Beyond that -it'd be teams Ireland have some bit of grudge past with -Italy, Turkey, Swiss, Belgium, Spain.

NI is the second result I look for every time ...and that's to see if they've won!!! Seriously. I take a genuine interest in seeing them do well. So much so that friend of mine recently likened the phenomena to the concern one might have for a gay cousin.

**Marked Man** · 13/12/2005, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Paulie

Definitely ingurlund. Having said this I think that this rivalry, like the one between Northern Ireland and ourselves, is pretty one sided. I reckon that if you asked an England fan who their main rival was they'd probably say Germany. We wouldn't even come into the equation.

Agree with you there. I'd say a more accurate test of a genuine rivalry (as opposed to teams that we like to cheer against) would be who sees us as their main rival.

**pineapple stu** · 13/12/2005, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I like England as a country, I like its people by and large and I like a lot of their culture so I reckon why not?

Same here, actually. But have no intention of giving up the historical and not-so-historical baggage!

So England for me without a shadow of a doubt. Anything else is just a grudge.

**deadman** · 13/12/2005, 4:13 PM

england of course, but my intense dislike of turkey hasn�t diminished even 5/6 years later ... and is unlikely to ... was glad to see the swiss go through

**sylvo** · 13/12/2005, 7:01 PM

Brazil, its a shame we won't be there in Germany to giving them a hiding, we owe them one.

**gustavo** · 13/12/2005, 7:14 PM

and in turn if you ask a German would he say Holland ?

**dcfcsteve** · 13/12/2005, 7:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dassa

I think when ts comes to rivalry it seems to be about looking at the bigger nation next door to your own nation or across the water and seeing them as your rival. This would explain NI rivalry towards ROI, ROI and Scotlands rivalry to England and Englands rivalry to Germany.

It's more to do with international history/politics - which traditionally over-lapped with geography, but is increasingly changing over time.

England's 3 biggest rivalries are also the games rated by the Police as posing their highest security risks - Scotland, Germany and Argentina. Turkey is a new entrant onto this stage as well. God knows why - probably a combination of the over-zealous, ahem, support from a large chunk of Turkish fans, and the traditionally right-wing element to England's hooligan support, wirth a few high-profile club and country clashes thrown in to provide further impetus.

International politics increasingly tends to not be about your nearest neighbours - which is why the US would see countries like Iran along with the likes of Mexico as their biggest footballing rivalries (a la France 98).

**dcfcsteve** · 13/12/2005, 7:18 PM

Originally Posted by gustavo

and in turn if you ask a German would he say Holland ?

Good question. They may well have done so in the 1970's. Now I reckon they'd have England and France as their 2 biggest. The Dutch would possibly be next in-line though.

**Conor H** · 13/12/2005, 8:31 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

It's more to do with international history/politics - which traditionally over-lapped with geography, but is increasingly changing over time.

England's 3 biggest rivalries are also the games rated by the Police as posing their highest security risks - Scotland, Germany and Argentina. Turkey is a new entrant onto this stage as well. God knows why - probably a combination of the over-zealous, ahem, support from a large chunk of Turkish fans, and the traditionally right-wing element to England's hooligan support, wirth a few high-profile club and country clashes thrown in to provide further impetus.

International politics increasingly tends to not be about your nearest neighbours - which is why the US would see countries like Iran along with the likes of Mexico as their biggest footballing rivalries (a la France 98).

Would England not put us on a par with Scotland as rivalry goes?

**Redtop** · 13/12/2005, 8:41 PM

for history reasons and if we were to beat them england..but they will be team that im cheering on at this world cup

**Beavis** · 13/12/2005, 8:57 PM

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I like England as a country, I like it's people by and large and I like a lot of their culture so I reckon why not?

Eh their fans. They are d*cks (sweeping generalisation yes but justified cos theres enough of them to tear up cities - same cant be said for many other nations). They tore up our west stand, have large fascist element, they sing rule Brittania and chant 'No Surrender.....' and they are laughably fickle (Before Argentina '98 'we love Beckham'....After Argentina '98 'death to Beckham'......After Greece winner 'We love Beckham'.

I also love seeing England lose because the reprocussions in the media esp. tabloids are hilarious (although our media is becoming nearly as bad). Sven Goran Eriksson is a joke.

Probably is a slightly one sided rivalry nowadays, probably far stronger during the IRA bombing campaigns in England of 70s and 80s.

All in all I hope they finish bottom of their group and lose to T&T (Yorkie hatrick)

**TheJamaicanP.M.** · 13/12/2005, 9:17 PM

Originally Posted by Beavis

Eh their fans. They are d*cks (sweeping generalisation yes but justified cos theres enough of them to tear up cities - same cant be said for many other nations). They tore up our west stand, have large fascist element, they sing rule Brittania and chant 'No Surrender.....' and they are laughably fickle (Before Argentina '98 'we love Beckham'....After Argentina '98 'death to Beckham'......After Greece winner 'We love Beckham'.

I also love seeing England lose because the reprocussions in the media esp. tabloids are hilarious (although our media is becoming nearly as bad). Sven Goran Eriksson is a joke.

Probably is a slightly one sided rivalry nowadays, probably far stronger during the IRA bombing campaigns in England of 70s and 80s.

All in all I hope they finish bottom of their group and lose to T&T (Yorkie hatrick)

Some of our "fans" are no angels either. There are plenty who choose to put the term IRA into The Fields of Athenry.

I suppose England or Northern Ireland would be the teams I view as our biggest rivals. In saying that, I supported England in their recent games against the North. There's no way I'd ever support the North and it's not because I'm sectarian. I will never forget the way Packie Bonner, Paul McGrath, Alan Kernaghan, etc. were treated in Windsor Park in 1993. Billy Bingham winding up the crowd and the obscene gesture which one of the North's substitutes made to the Republic's bench that night. They were so bitter and jealous that night. That game left me with such a dislike for Northern Ireland for a long time after, so much so that I never really want an all-Ireland football team. In fact, strangely for a nationalist, I don't particularly care if there's ever a 32 county Republic. I'd be just as happy if the 6 counties floated off into the North Atlantic.

As I said already, these views are not based on political or sectarian grounds. They're based simply on a dislike for football in Northern Ireland and their fans.

After Northern Ireland and England, I don't like Switzerland and Turkey. Needless to say, I have a particular dislike for the Yakin brothers!

**JoeSemi** · 13/12/2005, 9:30 PM

Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

Some of our "fans" are no angels either. There are plenty who choose to put the term IRA into The Fields of Athenry.

I suppose England or Northern Ireland would be the teams I view as our biggest rivals. In saying that, I supported England in their recent games against the North. There's no way I'd ever support the North and it's not because I'm sectarian. I will never forget the way Packie Bonner, Paul McGrath, Alan Kernaghan, etc. were treated in Windsor Park in 1993. Billy Bingham winding up the crowd and the obscene gesture which one of the North's substitutes made to the Republic's bench that night. They were so bitter and jealous that night. That game left me with such a dislike for Northern Ireland for a long time after, so much so that I never really want an all-Ireland football team. In fact, strangely for a nationalist, I don't particularly care if there's ever a 32 county Republic. I'd be just as happy if the 6 counties floated off into the North Atlantic.

As I said already, these views are not based on political or sectarian grounds. They're based simply on a dislike for football in Northern Ireland and their fans.

After Northern Ireland and England, I don't like Switzerland and Turkey. Needless to say, I have a particular dislike for the Yakin brothers!

I'd have to echo all of those sentiments P.M. 1993 left a bad taste in my mouth as regards my outlook on Northern Ireland and its team. Likewise, when they came to Dublin for the Omagh remembrance game the supporters were nothing short of atrocious as they belted out the usual sectarian filth in what was supposed to be a game in memory of those who lost their lives. They haven't changed and I don't think they ever will in our lifetime.

An All-Ireland team? No thanks. We might end up with Ireland's Call as our anthem

**Lionel Ritchie** · 14/12/2005, 9:19 AM

Originally Posted by Beavis

Eh their fans. They are d*cks (sweeping generalisation yes but justified cos theres enough of them to tear up cities - same cant be said for many other nations). They tore up our west stand, have large fascist element, they sing rule Brittania and chant 'No Surrender.....' and they are laughably fickle (Before Argentina '98 'we love Beckham'....After Argentina '98 'death to Beckham'......After Greece winner 'We love Beckham'.

I also love seeing England lose because the reprocussions in the media esp. tabloids are hilarious (although our media is becoming nearly as bad). Sven Goran Eriksson is a joke.
:

That reads a bit like your applying a stricter rule of thumb to theirs than to some of ours. As mentioned we've had IRA chants infuse songs that are already of questionable merit and suitability in this day and age. (cue charge of 'PC liberal gone mad' from someone).

We're also the ones who's team plays murder-glorifying Wolfe Tones CDs on the way to matches yet we'd be tut tutting like mad if we found out they were listening to Platoon on the NI team bus or Skrewdriver on the England bus.

I've said before here several times in several threads that their media more often than not disgusts me in the way it reports on many things -but you seem quite indulgent toward it.

I'll concede though that the minority in their support who cause trouble is far from being a tiny minority -but it's a minority nonetheless.

**sylvo** · 14/12/2005, 10:00 AM

[QUOTE=Lionel Ritchie]

We're also the ones who's team plays murder-glorifying Wolfe Tones CDs on the way to matches yet we'd be tut tutting like mad if we found out they were listening to Platoon on the NI team bus or Skrewdriver on the England bus.

Since BK took over and by all accounts banned the chucky'oke from the bus going to the ground instead playing Mary Black and Keltic moods music we've been shocking, bring back the boys of the old brigade, the foggy dew and other murder glorifying favourites.

As for that national anthem of ours, should that not be put in the murder glorifing list. Peader Kearney ehh, shocking fella.

**Paulie** · 14/12/2005, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

Some of our "fans" are no angels either. There are plenty who choose to put the term IRA into The Fields of Athenry.

Have to disagree there. This has nearly been eradicated as far as I can see. It was always something that I felt uncomfortable with but thankfully since around the late 1990's it's really only the very odd person that does it and even then it's normally someone in their teens that's had a few too many bud-shandys and doesn't know any better.

**Lionel Ritchie** · 14/12/2005, 10:07 AM

Sylvo let's not make this a case by case dissection of what is murder glorifying and what's not -though I'd guess if Wolfe Tones CDs were involved such aural delicasies as the 'Provie Birdy' (about a 1970's provisional IRA jailbreak) and the self explanatory 'Sniper of South Armagh' were on the playlist.

**livehead1** · 14/12/2005, 12:26 PM

anti-irishness/racism towards the irish is rearing its ugly head in england once more. After going through a stage the last i suppose 5 or more years, where it seemed to be on the decline, in some areas of the media, and in talking to people, you just get a sense that it is still around, and becoming more prominent, therefore its ingurland for me!