Views on Roy Keane becoming the next manager.

[NeilMcD]

Bad, Bad Idea.

he is not more qualified than either Staunton or Aldridge. He does not have more coaching badges either - Aldridge has the Uefa Pro Licence, Keane hasn't even started that yet and Staunton has more coaching experience at Uefa A level as far as I know. So to put it simply you could argue all you want but he is NOT more qualified than either those two or indeed MoN, Venables, Hiddink etc etc......its a no-brainer.

If we are to give this job based on qualifications to actually do the job then Roy is way way down that list. Do we suddenly just forget that we want a qualified coach, now that Roy is available - if ALdridge and Staunton aren't good enough for people then neither is Roy....simple! ffs, even big Frank Stapelton is more qualified for the job than Roy. Would be a ridicuolous move for Irish football merely to appease the fans that don't know any better.

Needless to say it should be pointed out that Hughes, Klinnsman & Voller had all completed their UEFA pro licence before being appointed to their managerial positions.

I want an experienced and fully qualified coach. If we are going to appoint half qualified coaches then I may as well throw my hat into the ring now!!!

You misquoted me there, I did not mention Aldridge I mentioned Mc Ateer and Staunton. I was under the impression that he had more badges that Staunton but no 100% on this.

[Schumi]

He has the same merits for the job as Staunton

My view exactly.

[Karlos]

Is there a source where you can find out who has what badges etc.

there may well be......i know what level some of them are at from articles in the Insight Live Coaching magazine from the English FA as well as some of them being present at coaching conferences. Aldridge and Brady, I've met at two separate coaching conferences and Staunton was interviewed re: his coaching qualifications recently. As far as I'm aware, you cannot gain the uefa pro licence while still playing or managing....it takes up to a year and can be done while coaching (see Tony Adams at Feynoord as an example or Shearer at Newcastle next year). You can however do all the preliminery licences which almost all the pros who want them have as they get excemptions from parts of the courses

[Karlos]

You misquoted me there, I did not mention Aldridge I mentioned Mc Ateer and Staunton. I was under the impression that he had more badges that Staunton but no 100% on this.

Apologies, must have picked up Aldridge from another post.

I heard McAteer state recently that he's completing his coaching badges and Staunton has already done so. THe fact still remains, Roy is no more qualified than any of these, I can't find a reasonable argument why he should get it over any of them and i'll add the likes of Brady, Stapelton and Whelan to that list.

[Stuttgart88]

Very busy at work Neil so will give you my thoughts on this later.

I think Steven Reid said that Keane would be the dressing room's choice though.

[klein4]

Well on this basis the job should witout doubt go to Brady. Our most talented/skillful player ever, legend for all his clubs including experience playing in a foreign league plus proven track record developing youth players and as many qualifications as the top european managers just like Johann. I think Brady is more akin to Cryuff than Roy in playing, reputation and coaching ability.

If the Cryuff selection method is used then it won't be Roy in charge.

how simple are you?
cruyff selection method????? what are you on about...
I was comparing two similar situations. cruyff got the job on his name alone and he turned out to be a very good manager. there was a lot of talk at the time that he shouldnt have got it due to lack of experience and no coaching badges. in fact if i remember correctly he technically wasnt allowed to be even called the manager. he also refused to go the world cup in 78. that was the comparison.

nobody knows if keane is goin to be a good manger but he has been a far more successfull player than either staunton or macateer. he has been the captain of the most successfull english club side of the last few years. surely that counts for something when you are going to be leading a team???
brady is a legend but he has stated publically he doesnt want the job. and he wasnt a successful manager. and I am not sure how many if any arsenal players he has brought thru the system. they seemed to have bought a lot of the young lads they have at the mo but I am open to correction.

try thinking about something before you go slagging off someone elses post just for the sake of it.

and on another point...all this talk of coaching badges and who is more qualified to manage....how many qualifications did Shankly,Clough, Paisley ,Stein or Ferguson have?????

As I said before I just wouldnt be inspired by any of the names linked with the job apart from O Neill. But of the rest I think Keane has as much right to be given his chance than any of them.

[Fergie's Son]

Very busy at work Neil so will give you my thoughts on this later.

I think Steven Reid said that Keane would be the dressing room's choice though.

I'm surprised to hear that. My initial reaction would be no. Keane has just fallen out with another coach and basically walked away from a 5m testimonial...doesn't speak volumes about his judgment.

[Karlos]

how simple are you?
cruyff selection method????? what are you on about...
I was comparing two similar situations. cruyff got the job on his name alone and he turned out to be a very good manager. there was a lot of talk at the time that he shouldnt have got it due to lack of experience and no coaching badges. in fact if i remember correctly he technically wasnt allowed to be even called the manager. he also refused to go the world cup in 78. that was the comparison. .and on another point...all this talk of coaching badges and who is more qualified to manage....how many qualifications did Shankly,Clough, Paisley ,Stein or Ferguson have?????

As you no doubt know in todays game you cannot appoint someone just because you think they might be good even if you want to. You cannot coach in most european countries today without having the appropriate licences. David Platt is a prime example of this. Yes Clough and Co didn't have coaching badges and where excellent coaches but where they coming into the game today they would have to have, that's the point. For every 3 or 4 successful coaches, there were 20 who came into the game, failed and left. THere'll always be exceptions, today you are guaranteed caoches of a certain calibre at all levels based on the licence system, the exceptional ones like Mourniho, Wenger, Le Guen will still always rise to the top and Ro might be one of them but he needs to do what's required and prove himself.

nobody knows if keane is goin to be a good manger but he has been a far more successfull player than either staunton or macateer. .

Well that depends on what you base success on? One could argue that Staunton has a far more respected professional than Roy. Yes, Roy won more trophies but Staunton played with all his heart from an early age right up until international retirement. He's got more international experience than roy and more games at league level. Aside from all that Roy has not been any more talented than the likes of Brady & Stapleton either imo - why not give one of them the job. Surely the argument FOR Roy stands FOR these people too.

brady is a legend but he has stated publically he doesnt want the job. and he wasnt a successful manager. and I am not sure how many if any arsenal players he has brought thru the system. they seemed to have bought a lot of the young lads they have at the mo but I am open to correction. .

Ok the fact is Brady doesn't want the job but is he as qualified as Roy? Yes, he is more qualified as is Venables, Hiddink, Troussier and even Aldridge. We are supposed to be looking for, a qualified experienced coach not a successful player that keeps some fans happy......

As for Brady, He's currently helped bring through, Matthew Upson, Jermanie Pennant, Jerome Thomas, Ashley Cole & Justn Hoyte - all playing premiership football. He helped Irish players in Graham Barrett & Graham Stack develop a career in proferssional football and is attempting the same now with 5 or 6 Irish youth lads under his helm including Anthony Stokes, Patrick Creagg etc etc. Not to mention being heavily involved with coaching the youth players signed at an young age, namely Fabregas, Clichy, Toure, Senderos,Alidiaierre curently all playing premiership football after time in the youth teams.

try thinking about something before you go slagging off someone elses post just for the sake of it..

Don't put out posts if you don't want them debated. I didn't make any personal attack on your post, i merely gave my opinion on it. How old are you?

[klein4]

regards the first point you make that was why I made the cruyff comparison.
in holland at the time you werent allowed to coach without the proper qualifications. Ajax took a chance and it paid off. Making Keane Ireland manager would be a similar situation. Putting more faith an unproven manager because of playing ability. As for the licencing system....do you think Paul Sturrock has more right to manage Ireland than Keane? Because he is more qualified?
"Staunton is a far more respected proffesional than Keane"? I think that is fairly hard to prove either way. As I said before I didnt really think Staunton played well for Ireland for a long time. The world Cup performance proving only what a great player he should have been rather than he was. And yes some people might measure success in terms of actual trophies won...Would you rather a manger that won things or a manger that was well respected by his peers?
yes brady was a great player. no doubt but he doesnt want the job and his managerial record is flawed. Personally I dont think stapleton is even in the same league as Keane or Brady. but he wasnt a very successful manager either. so that is why I would discount both of them. Keane hasnt been a successful manager yet but he also hasnt been unsuccessful yet either.

[geysir]

cruyff selection method????? what are you on about...
I was comparing two similar situations. cruyff got the job on his name alone and he turned out to be a very good manager. there was a lot of talk at the time that he shouldnt have got it due to lack of experience and no coaching badges. in fact if i remember correctly he technically wasnt allowed to be even called the manager. he also refused to go the world cup in 78. that was the comparison.

You have your facts twisted there about Johann Cruyff.

I would just like to point out that Van Basten has not yet proved himself yet to be a successful Dutch Manager. If Holland get to the final after p!ssing on Germany along the way then he might escape criticism. So far the praise he deserves is for bringing in new players. Getting to the finals past a weakend Czech team was only to be expected.
Klinsmann's test has yet to come.
Other examples of brilliant players going straight into national manager role, Stoichov for Bulgaria and Hagi for Romania. Neither stopped the lights.
I haven't really an opinion on Keane for manager except I don't know.
We do now know that prepare all you want does not alone translate into a winning team.
Personally my favorite manager in Europe is the Italian Marcello Lippi.
My ideal candidate for Ireland has a past record and a future

[BobbySands]

At this point even the FAI must realise they made a mistake getting rid of Kerr when they did. The only credible option, O'Neill, does not seem to be interested and the likes of El Tel etc are a joke. With this in mind I think they might go for Keane. It will quieten those who say the FAI have learnt nothing over the years. If it were a failure they could throw out the cliches about a legend, loyal servant (sure) etc and say he deserved his chance. The fact that chants of Keano seem to break out spontaneously at every gathering of Irish people whether its at a Boyzone concert or or Landsdowne proves the great unwashed believe Roy has been sufficiently rehabilitated so I think he'd be somewhat the most popular chance. If he's a success everyones happy.

[Karlos]

Ajax took a chance and it paid off. Making Keane Ireland manager would be a similar situation. Putting more faith an unproven manager because of playing ability. As for the licencing system....do you think Paul Sturrock has more right to manage Ireland than Keane? Because he is more qualified? .

Now your just being ridiculous.......It's not about who has the right, it's about who is qualified and has the experience to do the job and succeed (and least we not forget that's what it is, a job). However, If you are asking me who is more qualified coach with experience in the game to the job as it stands then the answer would be Paul Sturrock. THat doesn't mean I think he should get it but fact remains he is more qualfied and has more experience for the job.

If I'm in work and sitting on a interview board for a managerial position in a paper folding factory, I will always choose the most qualified person with the most experience of doing this job and who has an understanding of what the job requires than the person who can fold the most paper in an hour, who all our customers will love and might one day work out as a manager.

No matter who we appoint it will be a risk, However, I would much prefer to see the FAI make a caluculated educated risk by hiring someone with managerial experience and qualifications than being a crowd pleaser for hordes of fans, even if that means hiring a non-irish coach.

you also seem to have some distain for the licence sytem. When you look at people who progressed through the system it shows it works. Wenger, Mourniho, Le Guen, Coleman, Curbishley, Allerdyce, Sammy Lee (the list goes on) all with little and in some cases no success at all as a player came through to become well respected coaches/managers thanks to development opportunities that arose on the basis of being fully qualified licence holders . you can see why it is a vital tool to those who haven't played the game or won all the trophies available.

I've been on coaching courses with some excellent ex-pros and EL players and trust me, being a good player doesn't neseccarily mean you are a good coach or have the vision and insight to understand what is going on. It's a massive risk to take, one I'd rather our organisation didn't take.

And yes some people might measure success in terms of actual trophies won...Would you rather a manger that won things or a manger that was well respected by his peers?
yes brady was a great player. no doubt but he doesnt want the job and his managerial record is flawed. Personally I dont think stapleton is even in the same league as Keane or Brady. but he wasnt a very successful manager either. so that is why I would discount both of them. Keane hasnt been a successful manager yet but he also hasnt been unsuccessful yet either.

I want a manager not who only wins but develops & improves (we've been here before!)the team. A direct result of developing & improving is winning - if we want to be successful not just now but into the future we need a good technical & tactical coach. In this regard I don't think Stan, Aldo or Roy are able to give us what we need. I do not judge success solely on winning (although acknowledge that at the top end of management it's very important). One of my main critiscms of Kerr's reign is that I feel we did not progress as a team during his time regardless of the results .

The fact remains, I've yet to see any credential that would entitle Roy to get the job ahead of any of the other prospective managers. He has as much chance as anyone else to get it but he is NOT more qualified or more entitled to the job than anyone else. If Aldo and Stan aren't good enough (and i believe that,) then neither is Roy.

[Karlos]

Personally my favorite manager in Europe is the Italian Marcello Lippi.
My ideal candidate for Ireland has a past record and a future

Indeed, Lippi is a very knowledgable coach. I've got a really good interview article with him somewhere on his coaching philosophy (can dig it out for you if you want). Definetly an honours student of the game.

[klein4]

I cant see lippi or anyone of his calibre becoming ireland manager, can you?????
if i havent got the facts about cruyff totally correct then I apologise. I am tryin to recall something from 20 years ago.

ask any ireland fans would they prefer sturrock to Keane as he has more coaching qualifications and see what the response would be. Of course I dont think you or anyone else wants paul sturrock as manger(please god) But I was just pointing out that basing it solely on relevant qualifications can be a misleading route to take.
keane has shown leadership qualities at the top end of the game so I think that is why he should be considered for the ireland job given the other names being touted for the job.

"If I'm in work and sitting on a interview board for a managerial position in a paper folding factory, I will always choose the most qualified person with the most experience of doing this job and who has an understanding of what the job requires than the person who can fold the most paper in an hour, who all our customers will love and might one day work out as a manager"

without going into the ins and outs of the paper folding industry.... come on now its not really the same as football is it?....(..can you even get paper folding qualifications??) many successful businessmen have been abject failures at running football clubs(and for that matter many successful businessmen have acheived that success without any qualifications)....and of course it could be argued that keane has played for two of the greatest managers in football history...so surely that would count for something? he would have picked up things from these two that no course could teach him...
He seems to be an intelligent bloke with a clear idea of how he feels the game should be played. I have never got that impression from staunton.

I agree with you we shouldnt be looking to take a chance on someone for the top job in football in this country but I just dont see any alternatives that would be a) good enough and b) have any real feeling for Irish football.

I think a lot of the anti keane thing comes from people who hate man u and see him as the embodiement of that club and let that colour all thinking on him.thats the way I always see it anyway. he was a great player for ireland and thats the be all and end all as far as I am concerned. I dont take anything from saipan other than macarthy and keane didnt get on. and that would have been the case anywhere....even in the paper folding factory.....

[sligoman]

What are peoples views on Roy Keane to be the next manager.

Sign him up FAI, sign him up NOW!

[Karlos]

ask any ireland fans would they prefer sturrock to Keane as he has more coaching qualifications and see what the response would be. Of course I dont think you or anyone else wants paul sturrock as manger(please god) But I was just pointing out that basing it solely on relevant qualifications can be a misleading route to take. .....

Yes, it would be misleading to base the hiring on qualifications alone but not half as misleading as basing it on being a good player only......there's a list as long as my arm of great players who didn't cut it and I'd be hugely disappointed if we hire someone based on the fact he was a good player but might be a rubbish manager, and that goes for all of them, not just Roy.

keane has shown leadership qualities at the top end of the game so I think that is why he should be considered for the ireland job given the other names being touted for the job. .....

I'm not trying to be smart but people on here have sneered at the thoughts of Bryan Robson looking for the job but would accept Keane based on his potential and previous good leadership skills. Robson himself was an inspirational player and captain and was the one that lead Utd out of it's doldrums to finally win a league championship and captained his country. Coupled with his experience in management, you would think he'd be a perfect choice. Just a thought, what's good for the goose should be good for the gander, no. Yes Keane should be considered but if people think Aldo and Stan aren't good enough then simply neither is Keane.....I still haven't been convinced of what extra qualities he would bring over these people? For what it's worth, Robson is not the man for me either.

without going into the ins and outs of the paper folding industry.... come on now its not really the same as football is it?....(..can you even get paper folding qualifications??) many successful businessmen have been abject failures at running football clubs(and for that matter many successful businessmen have acheived that success without any qualifications)....and of course it could be argued that keane has played for two of the greatest managers in football history...so surely that would count for something? he would have picked up things from these two that no course could teach him...
He seems to be an intelligent bloke with a clear idea of how he feels the game should be played. I have never got that impression from staunton......

i was actually referring to a qualification in management not folding paper, but you know what I meant.

THe thing I find difficult with your view is that it's based on assumptions....assumptions that Keane picked up managerial skills from Fergie and Clough (which he may or may not have done?) - did he pick up the fundamentals of changing a formation mid way through a game, does he understand how to motivate without imtimidating? How would he handle a player like himself, questioning every discision? All unclear. Your argument against Staunton is based on an impression you don't get, again it's an assumption. Maybe Stan is far more intelligent bloke with more tactical sence. For me I can't fathom how you can choose one over the other based on assumptions and guesswork. For me, neither are ready for international management or have the experience required. Both would be as bad a choice as the other in my opinion.

I agree with you we shouldnt be looking to take a chance on someone for the top job in football in this country but I just dont see any alternatives that would be a) good enough and b) have any real feeling for Irish football......

I'm just interested to find out what you mean by good enough? In what way? Not good enough as a coach or they haven't won trophies as a player or what?? Define 'good enough' please

There's plently of good coaches out there, there's just not a lot that the fans like. There's also no rush on this, no need to panic just yet. I really hope we don't make an appointment however justto keep the fans happy, that could be diasterous.
As for a feeling for Irish Footie, well we had one of those and it didn't work out. We need a manager that will improve and develop this team and our youth teams without trying to keep people happy. I don't care where his feelings lie, it's a job and if it's done properly it will improve football in this country.

I think a lot of the anti keane thing comes from people who hate man u and see him as the embodiement of that club and let that colour all thinking on him.thats the way I always see it anyway. he was a great player for ireland and thats the be all and end all as far as I am concerned. I dont take anything from saipan other than macarthy and keane didnt get on. and that would have been the case anywhere....even in the paper folding factory.....

Likewise I've noticed alot of the anti-staunton brigade dislike liverpool or hold Staunton's stance in the SAipan affair aginast him. all that is bull to be honest both were good players but I still can't be convinced either would be the right appointment however an appointment as an assistant or coach for either of them I would welcome.

[Roverstillidie]

any chance of a poll?
reding this i get the impression he would be about as popular as cancer.
and rightfully so.

[lopez]

Saipan who????

[geysir]

I cant see lippi or anyone of his calibre becoming ireland manager, can you?????
if i havent got the facts about cruyff totally correct then I apologise. I am tryin to recall something from 20 years ago.

No problem, the comment that Coach Cruyff was first chosen for his name did call for a suspension of disbelief. Here is a classic story from the pages of Ajax 1980.
http://www.degoeieouwetijd.nl/8011_wedstrijd_eng.htm

[klein4]

I personally dont have an anti staunton opinion. I just think there is a total revisionism at play when people say he was a great player. he wasnt. compare the feelings utd supporters are expressing about a well past his best keane leaving and see if liverpool or villa fans who actually saw him play look back on staunton in the same way. keane was a much more influential and much better player. I believe that to be fact. If you want to measure success in total intangibles then you of course will always be on to a winner.

"assumption" that keane picked up anything from these managers? he was only the captain of the most successful club in english football for the last few years. does that count for nothing as to how he was seen at this club? I think it is safe to assume he isnt an idiot in football terms. I find it hilarious that you quote your own coaching experience to lend weight to your argument yet you dismiss keanes football career as irrelevent. I have rarely heard an ex united player come out and criticise him. the majority come out with praise for him. When Beckham went to Madrid he made a point of praising keane in his leaving statement. why do you think that was?

"Define good enough?" name me one manager who is genuinely in the frame for the job who's recent managerial record isnt one of failure. Try and you might come to understand why some people think keane should be considered.

You speak about "fans" as if they are some great unwashed who god forbid we ever listen to.....(if only there was some sort of uefa fan licence to weed out the uneducated eh?....)

and I dont think it is the Ireland managers job to develop players
surely if they are considered good enough to play international football they are playing and have developed to a certain standard at their clubs anyway???????? or is it one rule for the manager and one for the players...

I cant believe you are so blinkered as to compare frank stapleton to keane...even franks mammy wouldnt be with you on that one....