McNally gets six years

[sligoman]

wonder what the son did.

After the first gun shot the son drove off to "get help" but Nally thinks the son was going to get back-up, and then come back to the farm with them.

[pete]

The guy who was killed was a scumbag, not a traveller scumbag, black scumbag or chinese scumbag. His race has nothing to with this.

[anto1208]

The guy who was killed was a scumbag, not a traveller scumbag, black scumbag or chinese scumbag. His race has nothing to with this.

to me a traveller is some one who travels a thinker is some one who thinks and a knacker is some one that kills horse's , id take a long hard look at your self i ask why you have a different idea of what these words mean before you call others a racist .

[Rover 2 U]

a thinker is some one who thinks

I assume you mean Tinker? So what do they do, Tink?

[joeSoap]

The guy who was killed was a scumbag, not a traveller scumbag, black scumbag or chinese scumbag. His race has nothing to with this.

Stop trying to turn this into something it isn't Pete. The fact of the matter is that 'Frog' Ward was a traveller, like it or not, and also a huge scumbag. I am not being racist, or prejudicial when I say this. I also will admit to having a severe dislike for travellers in general, and do not like what they represent. This does not make me racist. Racism is defined as:

racism
noun

1. Belief in the inherent superiority of a particular race or races over others, usually with the implication of a right to be dominant.
2. Discriminatory treatment based on such a belief.

Derivative: racist

I do not believe myself to be superior to any other race of people, and have no right to be dominant over them, but that sure as hell does not mean that I have to like them. I have never discriminated against them as a result of my beliefs. Still does not mean I have to like them. The majority of them are vile, and have very little use to society, such as Frog Ward. I have no sympathy towards him or his family at all. My sympathy lies with Mr Nally and his.

[WeAreRovers]

[I]racism
noun

1. Belief in the inherent superiority of a particular race or races over others, usually with the implication of a right to be dominant.
2. Discriminatory treatment based on such a belief.



The majority of them are vile, and have very little use to society, such as Frog Ward.

QED

You're a racist.

KOH

[Schumi]

I assume you mean Tinker? So what do they do, Tink?

They sell scrap tin.

[anto1208]

I assume you mean Tinker? So what do they do, Tink?

they tinker about with stuff , they make things like coal buckets etc

[Lionel Ritchie]

QED

You're a racist.

KOH

I wouldn't have considered Travellers -as in Irish Travellers as distinct from Romani Gypsies - as a race. Just a thought.

If I'm truthful about it -and I acknowledge it's hard to discuss some of these issues without people taking strong positions and getting their backs up- I'm not convinced they even make the criteria to be described as an ethnic minority.

[sligoman]

The majority of them are vile, and have very little use to society, such as Frog Ward. I have no sympathy towards him or his family at all. My sympathy lies with Mr Nally and his.

Totally agree with all of the above.

[paul_oshea]

lionel i was just thinking the same thing. he is discriminating, at the end of the day "we" as in those of us who have contributed to this thread are of the exact same background, race and ethnicity as "travellers, gypsies, tinkers", it just takes a few generations to go back and prove this.

[Green Tribe]

to me a traveller is some one who travels a thinker is some one who thinks and a knacker is some one that kills horse's , id take a long hard look at your self i ask why you have a different idea of what these words mean before you call others a racist .

Class!

[Fair_play_boy]

Back on topic before this thread becomes a thesis on ethnology, when I heard about this case first I felt sorry for Nally, a bachelor farmer living alone, vulnerable person defending his property, his privacy, his home. His initial reaction to seeing intruders in his yard are completely understandable.
However when the full facts came out my sympathy switched to the dead man and his family. Ward was no saint, and he probably was there in Nally's yard to rob him. But taking into account everything, I think Justice Paul Carney got it about right. Ward should not have been there, and deserved the first part of what Nally did to him, IMHO. But you can't take a life when the option is there to spare him. Ward might well have died anyway from loss of blood, but there was no call to shoot him in the back when he is crawling away.
By the way, the Prime Time documentary strongly suggested that Nally is not the full bob. What were his defence team thinking of? If they entered a plea of insanity, the judge would not hesitate to accept it, going by the man's strange behaviour. Even if they went for the temporary variety of insanity, that would have given the guy some chance of getting justice.

[Thunderblaster]

What Mr Nally did was nothing more to protect his life and his property against an individual with a horrendous criminal record. If John Frog Ward was alive 200 years ago, he would have been convicted at court and he would have been taken back to the place of detention from where he would be taken to a place where he would be hung by the neck until he was dead and his body disposed of by law. In them times, hanging was the short drop where the convict would struggle hard before death. An Irish man brought in the long drop, which speeded up death. Mr Ward got the punishment he deserved and it put many of his victim's minds at rest. Mr Nally should be freed from jail and made an Honourary Mayo Person of the Year.

[monkey magic]

B
By the way, the Prime Time documentary strongly suggested that Nally is not the full bob. What were his defence team thinking of? If they entered a plea of insanity, the judge would not hesitate to accept it, going by the man's strange behaviour. Even if they went for the temporary variety of insanity, that would have given the guy some chance of getting justice.

insanity, as my law lecturer once told me, is extremely difficult to prove in irish law, you cannot sinply enter a plea of insanity and hope the judge accepts it, you have to prove it beyond doubt, and appearently this is next to impossible with the way irish law is structured (maybe someone with a bit more know-how on the issue can fill us in), as a consequence only a handful of people in the history of the state have sucessfully fought a case based on an insanity plea.

as for the case in hand, it raises a major moral question.. whilst my gut reaction is that ward got what was comeing to him, we have to ask; do we really want a society where people can inflict their own justice, whatever the crime, and take someones right to life into their own hands? i think not.

[as_i_say]

the key to the case i believe was the final shot. ward was a piece of sh it and undoubtadly had it coming but nally chose to fire the final shot and kill him.

i feel sorry for wards wife because being a female traveller, her life isnt worth sh it from birth anyway-all they are is baby machines for the vile scumbag men travellers like ward, however the woman is also completely deluded,as her words show-she didnt even believe that ward did anything wrong.

nally should have been given a suspended sentance, but i do believe that all his dogs were not barking.

again though its another example of how criminals are protected and while vile crimes like child abuse and rape go virtually unpunished in this country. this will happen again until we see proper justice for the victim in these cases.

nally did not get justice-he should be freed.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Maybe we should just scrap the judiciary altogether and dole out our own summary justice when we feel like it's apt.

I sense a lot of frustration on all sides about either Nally being put in prison or Nally not being put away for long enough but the man shot another man in the back. I've said already -I'd probably have done the same as him at the time and said, "feck it they can bill me later".

But what we can't do on one hand is say "well he was nervous because he'd been burgled before and your man was a gypo up to no good (who had in his possession cheques taken from an old man who was tortured into giving up his money)". A human being is dead. A nasty piece of work -yes. An iredeemable scumbag -most likely. But still a human being after all that.

Nor is it reasonable, on the other hand, to look for a "stacked" jury -which is what some in the "this is about travellers rights" camp wanted. Nally's as entitled as anyone else to a randomly selected jury of his peers -they reached their verdict -though it should be remembered they have nothing to do with sentencing.

On balance -I'd say the sentence is about right give or take -and Nally will probably be out in 18 months. When he does come out I hope his supposedly "tight knit communtity" gets their weave a bit more ship shape and takes a bit more interest in his welfare.

[pete]

Nally not being put away for long enough but the man shot another man in the back. I've said already -I'd probably have done the same as him at the time and said, "feck it they can bill me later".

Even in the wild west you would be hanged for shooting a man in the back.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Even in the wild west you would be hanged for shooting a man in the back.

Agreed. That's why it's right the man is in prison. I merely pointed out that if I was put on the X in the same circumstances ...well I probably wouldn't have let Ward get away to round up a posse. Now that means I might've tried the blow the legs out from under him and he might've died anyway.

Who's to know? Maybe that's what Nally tried to do. Either way - a man is dead, a trial has been had, a judgment has been reached and a debt to society is being repaid.

It's quite tragic.

[as_i_say]

of course if the fu cker (ward) had been locked up beforehand in the first place none of this would have happened