The Nationality Question (again)

**Tenderloins** · 21/11/2005, 2:09 PM

Constantly there are debates here regarding certain players not born in Ireland and should they be allowed play for Ireland.
I dont know if anyone read Pat Hickeys comments over the weekend regarding Irish Olympic teams. Its reckoned that by the 2016 Olympics 30% or so of those representing Ireland will not have been born here, but their parents will have emigrated here from Poland, Latvia, China etc.
There was an article in the Tribune Yesterday interviewing a number of Athlethes who have declared for Ireland since they came to live here.
It will be interesting to see the reaction to these people in the green jersey/vest. Their connection to Ireland is essentially economic. Contrast that to Kevin Kilbane where the connection is cultural as well as economic (emmigration from Ireland).
So in a few years we'll have all sorts of sides to the Nationality question.
Born abroad to Irish Parent(s)
Born abroad with Irish grandparent.
Married to an Irish person.
Married to an Irish Passport holder.
Born and raised in Ireland by Irish Parents.
Irish passport holder deported as a baby along with parents, lived in Nigeria almost all their life.
Born in Lagos, spent 2 years in Ireland.
Born in Warsaw, raised in Ireland.

and so on. If Kevin Nolan causes debate, theres going to be a lot of debates ahead. Think too of Being raised in Ireland and declaring for Poland/ Nigeria etc!!

**brine3** · 21/11/2005, 2:55 PM

I was born in Ireland to Irish parents, but have lived over 80% of my life outside of Ireland.

Conversely, you could also have an immigrant who is born outside of Ireland to non-Irish parents but has lived over 80% of his life in Ireland and talks with a thick Galway accent.

Who is more Irish, him or me? It's a difficult question. I would say him, but the government would probably say me.

**dr_peepee** · 21/11/2005, 3:26 PM

Interesting post there. I'd assumed it was gonna be the usual anti-plastic paddy dribble..

I actually thought the same thing last week when I read a profile on Synge Street in the paper and how a number of their students represented Ireland at various sports but one of them plays under 16 soccer for Poland cos he's an immigent.

**beautifulrock** · 21/11/2005, 3:46 PM

yes have thought of that myself, how strange it will be some guy with a Dublin accent playing for Poland, Nigeria etc. I am hopeful that we will have a fair majority playing for us as we have seen with the sons and daughters of Irish immigrants do for US, NZ, Oz etc in various sports over the years. I have left out those born in the UK to Irish parents from the above as the English question is as ever complicated by the history between the two nations and indeed the geographical closeness ensured a lot of the second generation from the UK will have spent a considerable amount of time in Ireland during holidays etc. I look forward with intrigue and interest.

**Drumcondra Red** · 21/11/2005, 3:48 PM

Once you are eligable for an Irish passport end of, imo, maybe have a minimum amount of time living/ working here a la rugby???

**Stuttgart88** · 21/11/2005, 3:58 PM

Most of the major forces in European football have benefitted massively from economic migrants enlarging the playing pool. France, England, Holland spring to mind in particular. Belgium & Switzerland too. In fact the Swiss have effectively advertised for non-Swiss born talent. Think of the USA too!

If we're to compete on a level playing field with all of these we should be looking to tap into all our resources.

I loved Keane's remark to Vieira: if you love Senegal so much why don't you play for them? But in reality, it just shows how in the modern "globalised" world, nationality isn't always mutually exclusive. I suspect there'll be many Polish or African kids born & bred in Ireland who are Irish, yet equally Irish and foreign culturally, or even more foreign. How committed they are if they represent Ireland will depend on the individual & his/her honesty and drive as a sports person I reckon.

**Krstic** · 22/11/2005, 8:11 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I loved Keane's remark to Vieira: if you love Senegal so much why don't you play for them?

And Vieria's supposed reply wasn't bad either.

"You're one to talk, you walked out on your country at the world Cup"

**Jerry The Saint** · 22/11/2005, 9:38 AM

Originally Posted by Krstic

And Vieria's supposed reply wasn't bad either.

"You're one to talk, you walked out on your country at the world Cup"

It's a shame he didn't say it to him in the tunnel at the time though. I bet he was killing himself when he thought of it - "Ohhhh, I wish I'd said that earlier!"

**Stuttgart88** · 22/11/2005, 9:57 AM

Yeah, it wasn't exactly spontaneous. A missed opportunity Patrick, and quite an obvious one.

**Rover 2 U** · 22/11/2005, 10:31 AM

He didn't walk out, he was sent home! FFS!

**Donal81** · 22/11/2005, 11:19 AM

Judging by the delightful treatment this country has so far meted out to those from Africa and Eastern Europe, I can see many declaring for the land of their origin, other than the land in which they live and work.

I was talking to the American girlfriend of a friend at the weekend. The daughter of a Cavan woman, she was born and has lived all her life in America. She travels on an Irish passport, which I'm sure wasn't difficult to obtain. If you're born in the Rotunda to two Nigerians, however, you're not considered fully Irish. Thanks for that Michael McDowell.

This will come back to get us, from a simple sporting context and otherwise.

**Cowboy** · 22/11/2005, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Donal81

Judging by the delightful treatment this country has so far meted out to those from Africa and Eastern Europe, I can see many declaring for the land of their origin, other than the land in which they live and work.

I was talking to the American girlfriend of a friend at the weekend. The daughter of a Cavan woman, she was born and has lived all her life in America. She travels on an Irish passport, which I'm sure wasn't difficult to obtain. If you're born in the Rotunda to two Nigerians, however, you're not considered fully Irish. Thanks for that Michael McDowell.

This will come back to get us, from a simple sporting context and otherwise.

Cant blame Mc Dowell alone, people actually voted for this regretfully

**Dodge** · 22/11/2005, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Donal81

If you're born in the Rotunda to two Nigerians, however, you're not considered fully Irish.

Can be in 5 years time though. Earlier if your parents have been working here (in fact if they've been working here for the past 4 years, you'll get your Irish passport straightaway)

Apart from that agree with your sentiments to Mr. McDowell

**bawn79** · 23/11/2005, 7:52 AM

"I actually thought the same thing last week when I read a profile on Synge Street in the paper and how a number of their students represented Ireland at various sports but one of them plays under 16 soccer for Poland cos he's an immigent."

Is this true, what does he do fly home for matchs??
There is no way we should be letting this happen, the FAI scouts should be round to him straight away. Who is he playing for anyway?

**Donal81** · 23/11/2005, 8:53 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Can be in 5 years time though. Earlier if your parents have been working here (in fact if they've been working here for the past 4 years, you'll get your Irish passport straightaway)

Apart from that agree with your sentiments to Mr. McDowell

Originally Posted by Cowboy

Cant blame Mc Dowell alone, people actually voted for this regretfully

Both very true, just being a bit flippant, the whole thing still puts me in a rage. I know the stipulations are in place for the child of immigrants to receive his or her passport but that still means that you have two kids lying side by side in an Irish hospital, one with different rights from the other. No amount of provisions can make that right for me, to be honest. I'll stop this though, getting hopelessly off topic!