Barney, Bikinis, Ballinasloe and Darwin.

[REVIP]

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is brilliant!

I would count myself as an evangelical Christian (well I belong to a couple of evangelical groups, and they haven't thrown me out yet), but my cosmology would probably closer to dahamsta's than it would be to that of the Kansas School Board. I think there is a force out there that broke into our time-space continuum as a bloke from Nazareth.

For what it's worth, Genesis Chapters 1-11 is a hotch-potch of literature and traditions gathered from various sources - it doesn't even hold together itself. It was never meant as science, but was an attempt to reassure the Jews, the leading elements of whom had been carried into exile in Babylon, that there was someone out there who cared about them.

ID seems an attempt to give a respectable face to creationism. Where does it kick in? At the start or with Raquel Welch?

The people who propagate this sort of stuff are very loathe to accept Jesus' direct teaching on peace, justice and poverty.

I am forwarding the FSM link to a geologist friend.

[John83]

As regards remediation, I notice my spelling is gone to hell it really has.

Mine too - to hell it really has.

I.D. starts with truth therefore it cannot be called Science.

Well, you can start with a theory in science, and look for a fact or a repeatable experiment that disproves it. ID is non-scientific in that anything that disproves something it claims just pushes back the "Here be dragons" boarder it places on evolutionary theory.

[hamish]

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is brilliant!

I would count myself as an evangelical Christian (well I belong to a couple of evangelical groups, and they haven't thrown me out yet), but my cosmology would probably closer to dahamsta's than it would be to that of the Kansas School Board. I think there is a force out there that broke into our time-space continuum as a bloke from Nazareth.

For what it's worth, Genesis Chapters 1-11 is a hotch-potch of literature and traditions gathered from various sources - it doesn't even hold together itself. It was never meant as science, but was an attempt to reassure the Jews, the leading elements of whom had been carried into exile in Babylon, that there was someone out there who cared about them.

ID seems an attempt to give a respectable face to creationism. Where does it kick in? At the start or with Raquel Welch?

The people who propagate this sort of stuff are very loathe to accept Jesus' direct teaching on peace, justice and poverty.

I am forwarding the FSM link to a geologist friend.

Revip - I must stress is that I wasn't slagging off evangelicalism but the extreme right wing evangelicals in the the Red States. Y'know, the type that brink rattlesnakes in to church - I think Louis Theroux or someone like that did a programme on it. So, I hope you were not offended.

Your paragraph on peace, justice and poverty is brilliant. Again, many on the websites mention those very terms when criticising the wingnuts.

Poor Student - Jesus, what kind of Arts degree did you get? I, too, am an Arts graduate (and studied Latin in Sec. School) but you really caught me by the balls with that post. LOL Great discription though.

[Poor Student]

Poor Student - Jesus, what kind of Arts degree did you get? I, too, am an Arts graduate (and studied Latin in Sec. School) but you really caught me by the balls with that post. LOL Great discription though.

Politics and Greek & Roman Civilization. Doing an MA in Classical Studies now. Have to do Latin. I've had my first dose at 9 this morning. I'm just getting off to get my second dose now. Yay. Vale amice!

[hamish]

Mine too - to hell it really has.


Well, you can start with a theory in science, and look for a fact or a repeatable experiment that disproves it. ID is non-scientific in that anything that disproves something it claims just pushes back the "Here be dragons" boarder it places on evolutionary theory.

Thanks John84 but don't you not have to have an investigative process to reach a place called theory?

I have to admit that I'm getting out of my depth here so I'll do my best to keep up with you guys.

There is a trial going on in a place called Dover (USA) at the moment about whether I.D. should be in the Science class - almost a reproduction of the infamous Scopes trial of, what, 70 years ago? Here is the sad part, like 70s years ago, as parents against I.D. were entering the courtroom, they were mocked from the sidewalk by a bunch of young and not so old people dressed in monkey suits and with monkey masks, grunting, and making monkey noises and moves at them. Below, is from the MSNBC report on it:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6470259/

[John83]

Thanks John84 but don't you not have to have an investigative process to reach a place called theory?

Yes. ID has that. It looks at the same evidence as that used to create, examine and support evolution and decides that can't be explained by anything other than a higher power. That theory is the nonscientific part.

[hamish]

Yes. ID has that. It looks at the same evidence as that used to create, examine and support evolution and decides that can't be explained by anything other than a higher power. That theory is the nonscientific part.

Think I can understand that John83. Thanks for your patience. I think I'll check out a few I'D. and Creationist sites soon and the various websites you guys posted above. Cheers.

[REVIP]

Yes. ID has that. It looks at the same evidence as that used to create, examine and support evolution and decides that can't be explained by anything other than a higher power. That theory is the nonscientific part.

It's plain bad theology.

It means God, or whatever force you want to call it, only fits in the gaps.

Then every time the gaps get smaller, God shrinks.

Not the people behind it would worry too much, ethics for them is what happens below the belt and God is only concerned about sex, rock music and the media

[John83]

It's plain bad theology.

It means God, or whatever force you want to call it, only fits in the gaps.

Then every time the gaps get smaller, God shrinks.

ID is non-scientific in that anything that disproves something it claims just pushes back the "Here be dragons" boarder it places on evolutionary theory.

Not the people behind it would worry too much, ethics for them is what happens below the belt and God is only concerned about sex, rock music and the media

Yes. I'm forever amused/appalled at what those people take for Christianity.

[pete]

Further proof that the US is one of hell of the phucked up country. There is a mmassive publicity campaigh behind the ID principles & even the "Intelligent Design" phrase has been specially choosen.

Still though it was Kansas School Board that voted for this & they probably don't know where Europe or Asia are.

[hamish]

Further proof that the US is one of hell of the phucked up country. There is a mmassive publicity campaigh behind the ID principles & even the "Intelligent Design" phrase has been specially choosen.

Still though it was Kansas School Board that voted for this & they probably don't know where Europe or Asia are.

Funny you should mention that Pete, Wasn't there a programme a week or so ago where an interviewer asked various people what country should America invade next. Many opted for France but, when he gave them a fictitious name with.."istan" at the end of it they agreed that should be next. Most of them when asked to point out either France or this "istan" pointed to Australia. I think it was Jay Leno that had it.

Then again, President Chimpy Mcflightsuit backed I.D. in schools as a theory students might debate on so it's not surprising really. Damn it, many millions elected that "missing link".

Maybe they get their I.D. information from the "internets" when they're not busy "putting food on their family". The only good thing about Bubble Boy is that he keeps the comedians full of material.

[pete]

The only good thing about Bubble Boy is that he keeps the comedians full of material.

Even better - he has on;y 3 years left & US Presidential elections usually result in a reaction to last President so you tend to get the opposite.

[REVIP]

Beeslow has disappeared from the title of this thread to be replaced by a town in Lancashire (or possibly a 19th century naturalist).

Is this evidence of

a) intelligent design

b) natural selection

c) the noodly appendage of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

[John83]

All eight Dover, Pennsylvania school board members up for re-election have been booted out after introducing intelligent design to the science classroom. In their place are a number of those who campaigned against the policy.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11..._board_booted/

[paul_oshea]

ROFL. You walked into that Paul.

i did, didnt I?? ah well i always assumed the two came together for example when you used alliteration you were automatically using assonance as it slides off the tongue like a ryhme?? .....climbing back in box ;(

[hamish]

Beeslow has disappeared from the title of this thread to be replaced by a town in Lancashire (or possibly a 19th century naturalist).

Is this evidence of

a) intelligent design

b) natural selection

c) the noodly appendage of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Funny that - my sister tells me that I'm a proof of evolution:

Look like a monkey
No intelligence
Poor design
Evidence of the missing link

There you have it - neanderthals in Beeslow.

All eight Dover, Pennsylvania school board members up for re-election have been booted out after introducing intelligent design to the science classroom. In their place are a number of those who campaigned against the policy.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11..._board_booted/

That's the one I mentioned at the beginning of this thread - was it Dover?, bedad, thought it was another school.

i did, didnt I?? ah well i always assumed the two came together for example when you used alliteration you were automatically using assonance as it slides off the tongue like a ryhme?? .....climbing back in box(

Sorry POS - wasn't connecting you to remediation - your post just reminded me of class when you mentioned assonance.

However, I am available for grinds. LOL

Will post any good website on the topic when/if I find one.

[John83]

That's the one I mentioned at the beginning of this thread - was it Dover?, bedad, thought it was another school.

Dover, Pa, I think.

[hamish]

Thanks for that John.

Here are a few sites about the debate that might help (me, if not the rest of you)


http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/122/33.0.html


http://www.intelligentdesignnetwork.org/


http://www.newyorker.com/fact/conten.../050530fa_fact

and a page from creationism.org

http://www.creationism.org/topbar/carbon14.htm

[dahamsta]

i did, didnt I?? ah well i always assumed the two came together for example when you used alliteration you were automatically using assonance as it slides off the tongue like a ryhme?? .....climbing back in box ;(

I'm just glad I said nuffing, cos I was was off the mark too.

[hamish]

Guys , how did I manage to get three quotes under one post - post 36????

I don't know how to do that.

Not complaining mind,