Comments From Tommy Burns

[Stuttgart88]

Comments from Tommy Burns posted below, from an interview in The Times.

I know it's in the context of Scotland vs USA tomorrow but it's clear to me how it's of relevance to the situation prevailing in Irish soccer.

The Scots have been the butt of a lot of slagging but recent away wins in Norway and Slovenia, the latter 3-0, with what is largely a young but hungry team, is a lot more than what our Premiership stars have been able to produce in 18 years of away games. A 1-1 home draw with Italy was quite credible and they should have done better against Belarus.

I mantain that a well balanced & well managed / motivated side can achieve results at this level even if the personnel are not all playing top flight football. Scotland and USA both can teach us a thing or two I reckon.


Burns keen for Scotland to follow American lead
By Phil Gordon


WHEN Tommy Burns played at the celebrated Giants Stadium 24 summers ago, his American hosts were green with envy. He was about to embark on a season that would see him help Scotland to the 1982 World Cup finals, while they could only sit back and dream of such a day.
Yet, those roles have been reversed. A fact that will be underlined tomorrow when Scotland face the United States in a friendly at Hampden Park. It is the Scots who are now providing warm-up opposition for the Americans ahead of the greatest show on earth.

The US are about to embrace their fifth successive finals. Currently Bruce Arena’s side hold an impressive seventh place in the Fifa rankings, while Scotland lag more than 60 places behind. Burns could never have envisaged that when he was given his first taste of US soccer all those years ago, in a friendly for Celtic against the New York Cosmos. Despite the subsequent closure of the glamorous team that once boasted Pelé and Franz Beckenbauer — Cosmos folded in 1985, a year after the league, the NASL —it is the Americans who are now truly giants at the beautiful game, while the Scots are positively Lilliputian.

There are more than 40 American players now earning their living abroad, everywhere from Manchester United to PSV Eindhoven, while the new generation are coming through from the present professional structure, Major League Soccer. Such is the strength in depth of US football, that though established Barclays Premiership players like Claudio Reyna and Brad Friedel are not available, Arena has a depth to his squad that Walter Smith must admire.

Indeed, the United States are also among the world’s top eight nations at youth level as well, reaching the quarterfinals of the Fifa Under-17 World Cup last month in Peru, where they eventually lost to Holland but defeated Italy along the way. The most precocious discovery of the US system, Freddy Adu, who is just 15 and playing for DC United, has been left at home.

Burns, who also oversees Celtic’s youth development programme in addition to his national team duties, believes that this devotion to the base level of the game is what has allowed the Americans to build a strong set-up. “They have produced a lot of good young players and made great strides over the last ten years, some of whom have gained experience in European leagues,” Burns noted. “Clubs such as Ajax,

PSV, Manchester United and AC Milan all have training camps in the US and nurture players. The Americans have been successful in every other sport, so it was inevitable that they would do it in football.

“I remember going on pre-season tour with Celtic to the US in 1981 and we played the New York Cosmos. They had a lot of world-class players in the era, like Pelé, but not so many American players.

“They had one guy who was the US’s most-capped player (the players Burns refers to, Rick Davis, earned a then-record total of 36 caps, whereas the present holder, Reyna, has amassed 107). Yet, the US did not really have a good national team back then. Guys like Reyna and Tim Howard have come here and established themselves in the most prestigious league in the world.”

Reyna, of course, spent three years with Rangers after making his initial breakthrough with Bayer Leverkusen and there are four Bundesliga players among Arena’s squad for Hampden. That is the sort of CV Burns would like Scotland’s players to acquire but he feels that this friendly is the ideal occasion for some of Smith’s own fringe players to make their mark.

“When Walter took over, he looked at the Future Team that Berti Vogts set up and very quickly added the players to the full squad that he felt we needed,” Burns explained. “We have not had too many friendlies since Walter came in. He is of a mind that it is better for players to play in pressurised competitive games, rather than go through a lot friendlies, but this is a chance for some of those younger players, such as Derek Riordan, Garry O ’Connor, Scott Brown and Jamie Smith, to make an impact at international level. The real questions will be asked when the pressure is on but this an indicator as to whether they can cope at this level.”

Indeed, Burns believes that the man who deserves credit for any talent emerging on to Scotland’s radar is the muchvilified Vogts. “Berti had two jobs,” Burns explained. “The initial one was to find players who could play at international level but he was also under pressure to qualify for Euro 2004. He took us to the play-offs. It was a patient process and a lot of players got their foot in the door.

“We found players like Darren Fletcher, James McFadden, Craig Gordon and even Steven Pressley and now they are established international players. Berti’s plan has proved to be the right way. He took all the stick when we lost friendly games but he gave us half a dozen who can play at international level, although it cost — he paid the price with his own job.”

Riordan is looking to stake his own claim for a regular role up front for Smith, given the absence of Kenny Miller and Paul Dickov. The Hibernian striker made his debut in August in the 2-2 friendly draw away to Austria but almost immediately was jettisoned by both Smith and Tony Mowbray, his manager at Easter Road.

“It was hard to take, being left out of both sides, but I just had to work hard and get back in the plans,” Riordan said. “Tony Mowbray thought I was lazy and I have improved my work ethic. However, I was left on the bench when Hibernian played Dnipro in the Uefa Cup at Easter Road, which was hard to take because it was the club’s biggest game in years and I had worked so hard last season to get us there.”

Riordan scored in the away leg in Ukraine to demonstrate that he can play at a high level. Reproducing that potency against the United States might open a door for a January transfer. “I would like to play in a bigger league one day,” he said, “you cannot spend 15 years at one club, but right now I am happy with Hibernian.”

[Metrostars]

The rise of footie in the US can be attributed to the growth of MLS, the number of players at Youth level and the introduction of academies by the USSF (soccer fed) for the best youth players. More than half of the players in the 2002 world cup came from MLS. While that number will be lower (my guess about 10 players) for 2006, the vast majority of players in the squad would have started out in MLS. The exceptions being Reyna, Keller & cherundolo all who would have started in MLS had it been around when they started their careers. On the number of kids playing, I saw a report recently where there is 19 million people playing organized soccer here, I'm sure a few will break through.
I really think if there was significent growth at the EL level in Ireland it would lead to an improvement of our senior side. It is not an overnight thing, but they key is that it would provide greater stability for years to come.

Just my 2 cents.

As for the game tomorrow, the US has a VERY weak side, 18 players out with injuries and unavailability due to the MLS final on Sunday. I wouldnt be surprised if they lose this one. As for the young hotshots like Adu, he is good but still only 16(if you believe his birth cert), he will get a look at by Arena in the January MLS camp but I don't think he will be selected for the WC. Also, that Rossi kid with Man Utd was born in New Jersey and move to Italy at 13 may have a better shot at being selected if he changes his mind on whether he is Italian or American.

[Fergie's Son]

Not to be an arse, but isn't this an Irish forum? You know, Irish national team? (Unless you are equating this to the Irish situation).

[strangeirish]

I know it's in the context of Scotland vs USA tomorrow but it's clear to me how it's of relevance to the situation prevailing in Irish soccer

I think he made that point clear.

[Stuttgart88]

Thanks strangeirish, you saved me the trouble.

[CraftyToePoke]

Not to be an arse, but isn't this an Irish forum? You know, Irish national team? (Unless you are equating this to the Irish situation).

did this not refer to metrostars post? and not the original article.

[Stuttgart88]

fair enough

even still, metrostar does compare the MLS to the eL in the context of how a domestic league of sufficient quality enhances the international team, which is consistent with the reasoning behind the initial post.

[Metrostars]

Not to be an arse, but isn't this an Irish forum? You know, Irish national team? (Unless you are equating this to the Irish situation).

The main point of my post is that I think the EL should look to the success of MLS of breeding young talent.

[hamish]

I remember reading somewhere, Metrostars, that there were around 20 million footie players in the US. Astonishing - not even the so-called "football" countries can near match that.
I'm not surprised. I was in a place called Chillicothe (Ohio) in 1981 and read in a local paper that a nearby town was creating five new sports facilities in one spot with all mod cons added on. If I remember correctly, at least three of those grounds/pitches were football ones.
There is a temendous grass roots game in Ireland with an astonishing growth in good facilities. My local club has a stand, all weather pitches etc and main ground has TV standard floodlighting.
The one problem, though, is that the standard of youth football, outside the Dublins, Corks, Athlones etc is not as good and you have the situation of young lads from the West and elsewhere travelling to Dublin to play with Home Farm etc to improve their game against/with top quality youth sides and to get the attention of the FAI managers of under age teams.
Sad fact which takes the best players out of local footie and needs to be addressed pronto. It will take time to up the standard outside the above places.

[Stuttgart88]

There is a temendous grass roots game in Ireland with an astonishing growth in good facilities. My local club has a stand, all weather pitches etc and main ground has TV standard floodlighting.

The new Genesis report correctly points out that there is a disconnecttion between the thriving junior football set up and the eL. If the eL was to be perceived as the top of the domestic tree & junior football and senior football were more related then that'd be a step in improving the local game and, by progression, the provision of players capable of international selection - as metrostars refers to.

I thought there was a lot of good in the new Genesis eL report but it was long on sentiment, short on specifics. At the Swiss game none of my mates, all very keen Irish fans, even knew there was such a report, but that's a different story.

[hamish]

The new Genesis report correctly points out that there is a disconnecttion between the thriving junior football set up and the eL. If the eL was to be perceived as the top of the domestic tree & junior football and senior football were more related then that'd be a step in improving the local game and, by progression, the provision of players capable of international selection - as metrostars refers to.

I thought there was a lot of good in the new Genesis eL report but it was long on sentiment, short on specifics. At the Swiss game none of my mates, all very keen Irish fans, even knew there was such a report, but that's a different story.

Dead on points Stuttgart88. When I was with Athlone, I tried to establish links with local Junior and under age leagues and scouted all over the Midlands for players, even the North Tipp League.****
We brought loads of players on trials with our under age and B Teams but, sadly, not with any great success. Shane Curran was one who broke through. Jimmy Greene (still with the Town) was brilliant with any trialists and made them feel welcome as did the players. A good number got extended runs with the B team.

The big problem was that many of the Junior players had poor coaching for so long at Junior/under age level that they had developed bad footballing habits which, despite the Athlone coaches' best efforts, had be become so ingrained that it was impossible to correct.
What was gratifying was the tremendous enthusiasm from Junior leagues etc and junior/under age clubs and, most importantly, players from those levels, - was their delight at the opportunity to try out League of Ireland football and try and make it.
We also made an agreement to give a percentage of any subsequent tranfers to the original junior/under age club - Ray Kelly's Willow Park FC were the first to benefit. Dunno what's happened since. I think junior clubs now do deals dieectly with Enghlish clubs for example, by passing the LOI.

***We always got the permission of the Junior/under age leagues/clubs to do this BTW and any approaches to players was by formal club letter to the club first with a copy to the local league BEFORE approaching the player.
I felt that trust between Athlone and the junior/under age set up was the bedwork for any link-up and it was vital that we were, not only up front but, SEEN to be up front.

I had to eventually pack all this in, in 1995, 'cos it cost me a fcuking fortune. (AND you know how poorly teachers are paid LOL)

It's better nowadays, clubs have improved enormously at coaching but, again, any good player is snapped up by Dublin clubs for the reasons I mentioned above in my earlier post.