Cheers RTE

[dav_sfc]

I see you managed to read what I wrote and understood none of it. Well done.
I didn’t claim that RTE were not fulfilling their duties nor did I claim that the EL deserves wall-to-wall coverage.
I simply said that the commentator could have said something less negative but he didn’t and he’s not very cleaver.
You see, if RTE decide, “hey, this EL thing is getting pretty popular now so lets show some games this year!” then surely its in their best interest to PROMOTE it (are you with me yet batman). Now, I’m not asking for a 15 minute advertisement between the breaks on Fair City or between the news and the weather for the EL, just something a little bit more positive than what the commentator decided to say.

Oh, yeah, I also was just pointing out that your statement, which I quoted once already, was not fact. In fact, it was totally wrong. A fact, can I add, that hasn’t changed.

And then you go and say “So nothing you've written above changes anything.”! Goodness, it wasn’t meant to change anything. It was merely pointing out that what you said was total b u l l s h i t.

So I got a couple of questions for you, do you still think, after reading my first post that…
“RTE, nor any other channel, do not exist to promote domestic sports or, frankly, any other minority interests.”?

And do you think RTE should PROMOTE a league that they show live matches from?
You know, to get higher viewing figures, which leads to more money from advertising which leads to a bigger budget so that they can show/make better programmes which in turn leads to even more expensive advertising etc etc...(do you see the cycle here?)

I look forward to hearing from you.

[A face]

I see you managed to read what I wrote and understood none of it. Well done.
I didn’t claim that RTE were not fulfilling their duties nor did I claim that the EL deserves wall-to-wall coverage.
I simply said that the commentator could have said something less negative but he didn’t and he’s not very cleaver.
You see, if RTE decide, “hey, this EL thing is getting pretty popular now so lets show some games this year!” then surely its in their best interest to PROMOTE it (are you with me yet batman). Now, I’m not asking for a 15 minute advertisement between the breaks on Fair City or between the news and the weather for the EL, just something a little bit more positive than what the commentator decided to say.

Oh, yeah, I also was just pointing out that your statement, which I quoted once already, was not fact. In fact, it was totally wrong. A fact, can I add, that hasn’t changed.

And then you go and say “So nothing you've written above changes anything.”! Goodness, it wasn’t meant to change anything. It was merely pointing out that what you said was total b u l l s h i t.

So I got a couple of questions for you, do you still think, after reading my first post that…
“RTE, nor any other channel, do not exist to promote domestic sports or, frankly, any other minority interests.”?

And do you think RTE should PROMOTE a league that they show live matches from?
You know, to get higher viewing figures, which leads to more money from advertising which leads to a bigger budget so that they can show/make better programmes which in turn leads to even more expensive advertising etc etc...(do you see the cycle here?)

I look forward to hearing from you.

Dav ... legend .... thanks be to fúck i am not on my own here !!

:thumbs up:

[joeraki]

Only 3 posts on this forum and you can tell he's going to be "another one of those type of posters"

Can wait for your views on the next round of Bohs or Rovers bashing

[A face]

Hows that plastic pitch doing ??

[joeraki]

Hows that plastic pitch doing ??

Doing what a plastic pitch should do

[A face]

Doing what a plastic pitch should do

Plastic Fantastic !!

I know i should have put in a bit more of an effort ..... but i just couldn't be ársed !!

[dav_sfc]

Sorry lads,

Don't mean to be a pain, I read this forum quite often when I need my EL fix! As you can see I've not posted before(but i thought i had!) and I usually find a lot to say especially when the b u l l s h i t detector goes off the scale.

I'll try keep future posts as brief as possible! but no promises!

Forza Shelbourne

[A face]

Sorry lads,

Don't mean to be a pain, I read this forum quite often when I need my EL fix! As you can see I've not posted before(but i thought i had!) and I usually find a lot to say especially when the b u l l s h i t detector goes off the scale.

I'll try keep future posts as brief as possible! but no promises!

Forza Shelbourne

You are totally entitled to post your opinion. Thats what it is here for.

[dcfcsteve]

I see you managed to read what I wrote and understood none of it. Well done.
I didn’t claim that RTE were not fulfilling their duties nor did I claim that the EL deserves wall-to-wall coverage.
I simply said that the commentator could have said something less negative but he didn’t and he’s not very cleaver.
You see, if RTE decide, “hey, this EL thing is getting pretty popular now so lets show some games this year!” then surely its in their best interest to PROMOTE it (are you with me yet batman). Now, I’m not asking for a 15 minute advertisement between the breaks on Fair City or between the news and the weather for the EL, just something a little bit more positive than what the commentator decided to say.

Oh, yeah, I also was just pointing out that your statement, which I quoted once already, was not fact. In fact, it was totally wrong. A fact, can I add, that hasn’t changed.

And then you go and say “So nothing you've written above changes anything.”! Goodness, it wasn’t meant to change anything. It was merely pointing out that what you said was total b u l l s h i t.

So I got a couple of questions for you, do you still think, after reading my first post that…
“RTE, nor any other channel, do not exist to promote domestic sports or, frankly, any other minority interests.”?

And do you think RTE should PROMOTE a league that they show live matches from?
You know, to get higher viewing figures, which leads to more money from advertising which leads to a bigger budget so that they can show/make better programmes which in turn leads to even more expensive advertising etc etc...(do you see the cycle here?)

I look forward to hearing from you.

I assume this response was directed at me Dav - despite the lack of any boxed quotes or addressee.

I did read your previous message. I noted with interest that you promoted words like "provide" and "cater for". I noted with greater interest that the word 'promote' was nowehere to be seen in there....

To answer your specific questions above :

So I got a couple of questions for you, do you still think, after reading my first post that…
“RTE, nor any other channel, do not exist to promote domestic sports or, frankly, any other minority interests.”?

I don't think I could be any clearer on this. RTE is a television station - not a promotions agency, or a government department. They do not exist to "promote" anything other than themselves. However - to reflect the fact that they hold a vital position in Irish life, and that they receive substantial public funding, they are tied to providing a broad range of coverage - broader than they would probably otherwise opt to do so given the choice (e.g. TV3). However - there is a mammoth difference between catering towards the interests of minority sports or groups, and actively promoting those groups and their aims themselves. The former is RTE's stated duty, the latter is not....

And do you think RTE should PROMOTE a league that they show live matches from?
You know, to get higher viewing figures, which leads to more money from advertising which leads to a bigger budget so that they can show/make better programmes which in turn leads to even more expensive advertising etc etc...(do you see the cycle here?)

I'll ignore the fact that I spent years working in Advertising, as I wouldn't want to reduce my arguement to the same condascending tone of your own. It is clearly in RTE's interest to advertise the games they show - just as it is clearly in their interests to promote ANY programmes they show (to create an audience, and fulfill everything else you mentioned). However - it isn't their job, nor is it in their interest, to promote the league generally - particularly when they are only showing a few games that meet their minority commitments. Football games are independent events - not on-running episodes. It makes sense for them to promote the ones they are showing, but why should they give a feck about the rest that they aren't ? Why should they have this moral duty to promote stuiff that they aren't showing - and that, in fact, competitors may be showing instead ? It's like saying that, because RTE had Friends they should promote tedious American sit-coms as a whole.

To summarise, RTE have no duty to PROMOTE anything. They are a TV station - not a Trade Body/Union/Representative group.

I, likewise, look forward to hearing from you in response. Though turn-down the condascension Einstein....

[dcfcsteve]

But Steve .... just answer this .... viewing figures .... why did they favour the domestic game ??

What doemstic game(s) are you referring to ? I'm aware of a couple of recent European games involving Irish teams that, when going head-to-head with Euro games involving none-Irish teams, drew larger audiences. To suggest that this happens regularly for live EL games versus Live English Premiership ones on RTE is incorrect.

What would the verdict be ..... seriously ..... i would love to know !!

C'mon A Face - you know yourself. If RTE conducted market research tomorrow asking the question : "Which would you rather see on TV next year - more Eircom League or more English Premiership football", then it is extremly likely that the majority of respondents would opt for the English version. Just like they do in terms of merchandise purchase, viewing figures etc, and arguably even live game attendance.

In an average week, Eircom League live games attract a combined attendance of 10-15,000. Less if one or more of the better supported teams aren't at home. That's nationwide. That's people voting (or not, as is the case is...) with their feet. For perspective, that's the type of attendance that glamour teams like Luton Town and QPR get at every home game. I guarantee you that there would be more than 10-15,000 people gardening in South Dublin or fishing in Connacht every weekend. So why does Eircom League football deserve to get more coverage and be actively "promoted", rather than gardening or fishing....?

That public charter a while back wasn't very public if you remember ... why is that i wonder ??

No idea - you tell me

And again .... there is no way i'll accept that RTE dont have any duty to promote Irish sport .... at least that is ..... they should promote a foreign league at the cost of the domestic one, there is no way i'll accept that at all.

RTE promote the TV content that they have. A significant string in their sporting bow is the English Premiership. Beyond capitalising on the rights they have for it - how exactly does RTE promote the English premiership ?? If they lost the rights to the English Prem next year, you wouldn't hear a dicky-bird about the league on the channel outside of the sports news. That shows that they aren't promoting the league - just capitalising on the rights they have bought.

For the record - I personally think RTE should have a duty to promote key aspects of Irish life, of which a range of sports would be one. But that's just my view. Meanwhile, they have no commitment or compulsion to do so, and as they air very little to do with the League, they only give it limited coverage/'promotion'.

And why is everyone holding RTE to blame here. There is only ONE body on this island who have a clearly stated aim of promoting Irish football - the FAI. They are the ones who people's venom should be directed towards - not media channels, gardeners, The Wolfe Tones, Tayto, or any other groups with no stated responsibilities towards Irish football.

[A face]

Alright ... Steve i take all that onboard ... and you make good points .... but the string in their bow is there because of the effort they put into it. The advertising that they done on it is unreal.
You'll know better than most what they are spending on it .... serious figures i'd imagine myself.
If they spent the same on eircom League where would it be ??
If it had a level playing field .... i would be a different story.

And why is everyone holding RTE to blame here. There is only ONE body on this island who have a clearly stated aim of promoting Irish football - the FAI. They are the ones who people's venom should be directed towards - not media channels, gardeners, The Wolfe Tones, Tayto, or any other groups with no stated responsibilities towards Irish football.

I know its the FAI, jebus ... we all know that like .... but regarding the role they (RTE) play in Irish football, they could do alot better imo.

[nismo]

Are we honestly comparing ourselves to the premiership?


He mentioned he was a former LOI standout and we should be happy he's playing in the premeirship. Next we'll be giving out about people rating the CL above our competitions

i agree with you..some of the comments thrown around here are crazy..

ive been wanting to say this for a while but some of the EL fans on here are living in a dream world!

[A face]

i agree with you..some of the comments thrown around here are crazy..

ive been wanting to say this for a while but some of the EL fans on here are living in a dream world!

I dont think you are referring to me there but ...... just for the record, to clear things up like ....


Is wanting your National Broadcaster to show your National League living in a dream world ??


And the whole reason the thread starting ..... a flippant throw-away comment from a commentator on our National Broadcasters channel while showing a league in a different country, that imo (and i am entitled to it) it didnt directly lend itself to supporters of the domestic league, hence people were p!ssed off over it. I wasn't actually that p!ssed off over it .... but more to do with that is the situation or status of our league in our National Broadcaster eyes. The fact it was so acceptable .... that is what has got my goat. (Can i stress that last part there, the italics.)

That last paragraph is my tupence ...... not attacking you directly nismo but for people like you to say i or many like me are in a dream world is so unbelievable it is not true. Fair enough if you have no pride in your league or country, or maybe you have low standards regarding the programming that you as a subscriber to your National Brodcaster are given the option to watch. But surely you must realise that there are others who do actually care about it. For you to backout of the debate with your comment is lame, so why make it. It contributed nothing to it .... if you are actually being honest, you'd probably say "i dont have an opinion", or "i have actually never thought this thing through"

And steve just back to the last point ..... yeah the FAI are the main target for any venom, or at least should be .... but while we are talking about the National Broadcaster, surely we can discuss whether or not they should have a better policy towards eL (given that this is where this thread meandered to) .... i pay a licence fee that has been goes up nearly every year .... should they not fulfill the role of a National Broadcaster and champion the Irish interest in sport outlined by themselves ..... if the answer is no .... then shouldn't all the other stations be given part of the licence fee ..... what are they doing that is so different to RTE ??

[dcfcsteve]

And steve just back to the last point ..... yeah the FAI are the main target for any venom, or at least should be .... but while we are talking about the National Broadcaster, surely we can discuss whether or not they should have a better policy towards eL (given that this is where this thread meandered to) .... i pay a licence fee that has been goes up nearly every year .... should they not fulfill the role of a National Broadcaster and champion the Irish interest in sport outlined by themselves ..... if the answer is no .... then shouldn't all the other stations be given part of the licence fee ..... what are they doing that is so different to RTE ??

I totally agree with the sentiment A Face, but the problem here is that everyone talks about the EL in isolation. Yes, you're a license payer and want to see more EL on TV. But there are probably 1m+ license payers in the country, many of whom would also have strong views on what they would like to see - much of which probably doesn't get coverage either. TV funding is like taxes - you can't have individuals seeking to decide the minutae of what their tax should and shouldn't be spend upon, as the system would become completely unworkable if you went down that route. If TV License payers were setting RTE's schedule, I still don't believe the EL would secure much or any increase in coveragey, as I'd expect no more than 5%* of the 1m+ license holders would prioritise domestic football (*assumption based on the 10-15,000 weekly attendance at games, with a generous allowance for armchair and infrequent supporters on top of this). Instead we'd have more fishing, gardening, nature programmes etc etc etc.

The league needs an increase in media coverage to generate awareness and interest, but we have no god-given entitlement to that from RTE or any other media outlet. Therefore, the easiest and quickest way to secure this desired increase in coverage is, in my view, through the FAI using their access to international games/manager/players to coerce channels into increased coverage. No EL coverage = no international access, end of story. Trying to convince RTE that we're more worthy of coverage than fishing, gardening or any other 'minority' interest - let alone one of the best-supported league's in the world - is just simply not going to work.

[A face]

Right .... i take all that on board. (although when i was saying it, i wasn't saying they should swing totally over to eL footie, just proportionately even based on their viewing figures .... right now no advertising for eL but when there is a game on, could get 180,000 looking at it, but away from that.)

.... Olympics ... Ireland ... barr drugged up horses ... what have we done ??

Boxing was a big source of medals for the Irish when i was growing up .... how much boxing do we see on the telly ?? (not pro Steve Collins etc. ... young lads in All-Irelands)

Athletic, we have a few medals ... nothing to boast about .... The biggest two events in the Athletics calendar this years, didn't even get mentioned on the news, i am not saying highlights here ..... i am saying just the fact they were actually on.

Fishing ..... huge sources of revenue for this country, i know it aint a reason to show it but surely would lend itself to sponsorship because of vested interests etc. ..... nothing all year.

The point i am making is .... it is not just eL that is suffering, it is Irish sport.

If they are not going to support it or give priority to it (Irish Sport) then they shouldn't be given the money for it ..... surely that is a valid point, why shouldn't TV3 get a shared of the licence fee if they show the same percentage of hours of Irish sport as RTE ??
Why should RTE have all the spoils and TV3 have none ??
If they are not going to fulfill the role ...... that is fine, but surely they shouldn't then get the benefit of the licence fee for not doing so.

[dav_sfc]

Firstly Steve, do you think that noticing a lack of boxed quotes or addressee is some kind of cleaver observation? Unless you’re totally dense I think it’s blindingly obvious who I was talking too. Anyway, I try to quote as little as possible because it makes a forum look like a complete eyesore. So no points there you witty genius!

The next thing has got to be your ridiculous analogy about football not being like on-running episodes (do you need me to quote it?)! This has got to be your worst creation. Let me restructure this analogy for you. Each match is like an episode, the on-running plot in the series is the league, you know, where actions like scoring and conceding goals, gaining points, getting booked and sent off and buying and selling players all build up to one giant climactic end in November. Oh the drama! Each match along the way has a knock on effect to the week after, as do most of the items in the list above.
I know that just because RTE show EL games and Premiership games that they don’t need to promote every football league in the world but that is not what you were saying. Your skewed analogy tried to make the out that somehow promoting the league in general was akin to promoting every other tedious sitcom, I think your clutching at straws. It hardly makes sense to say the EL is rubbish and you can watch some of that rubbish here on RTE.
I’m glad anyway to see that despite the poor attendances and lesser quality football in the EL that not one, not two but three television stations do promote the league by advertising and showing EL matches and highlights. Why? I guess it must be in their best interest to.

By the way, sorry I didn’t manage to turn down the condescension batman….
I hope you don’t go around being a hypocrite too often. Well done Einstein.

[NY Hoop]

Most pointless thread ever. I never watch the premiersh1t but watched that game cos Murphy was playing. IMO he was not out of his depth at all.

RTEngland dont care about the EL. Never have never will. We played 34 games when we last won the league and they had a camera at 16 of them. National broadcaster my rectum.

BTW Stephen Alkin is a Rovers fan but also a chelsea fan


KOH

[A face]

Most pointless thread ever.

Debate is pointless ??

[dcfcsteve]

Firstly Steve, do you think that noticing a lack of boxed quotes or addressee is some kind of cleaver observation? Unless you’re totally dense I think it’s blindingly obvious who I was talking too. Anyway, I try to quote as little as possible because it makes a forum look like a complete eyesore. So no points there you witty genius!

The next thing has got to be your ridiculous analogy about football not being like on-running episodes (do you need me to quote it?)! This has got to be your worst creation. Let me restructure this analogy for you. Each match is like an episode, the on-running plot in the series is the league, you know, where actions like scoring and conceding goals, gaining points, getting booked and sent off and buying and selling players all build up to one giant climactic end in November. Oh the drama! Each match along the way has a knock on effect to the week after, as do most of the items in the list above.
I know that just because RTE show EL games and Premiership games that they don’t need to promote every football league in the world but that is not what you were saying. Your skewed analogy tried to make the out that somehow promoting the league in general was akin to promoting every other tedious sitcom, I think your clutching at straws. It hardly makes sense to say the EL is rubbish and you can watch some of that rubbish here on RTE.
I’m glad anyway to see that despite the poor attendances and lesser quality football in the EL that not one, not two but three television stations do promote the league by advertising and showing EL matches and highlights. Why? I guess it must be in their best interest to.

By the way, sorry I didn’t manage to turn down the condescension batman….
I hope you don’t go around being a hypocrite too often. Well done Einstein.

Good to see you keeping the maturity levels of your response high Dav. Maybe it's not such a bad thing that you don't post very often.

It may be that we're disagreeing about a semantics issue here. You use the word "promote" when you talk about the EL. I'm saying that it is not RTE's job to "promote" anything. They may advertsie the fact that they are showing certain games etc, to generate an audience for those games, but that's not promoting the league as a whole. It may be we're just disagreeing over our choice of words.

I do believe that football are a series of individual events. Yes, they are obviously interlinked - as indeed are most things in life. But you can watch a single football match in an entire season without needing to have any knowledge of who the players are, how the teams are doing in the league at the moment etc etc, without its entertainment value diminishing. Sure - it helps to know if it's a top of table or mid-table mediocrity clash, and who the key players are, but you can still understand what happens regardless. There's no character or plot development across inter-linked episodes, you don't need to know who certain people are to get the jokes/scenarios, and you certainly won't fail to understand the game because you missed a game 2 weeks before. You could watch any individual football match anywhere in the world and not be at a disadvantage. On the other hand, try watching only a single episode of, for example, Six Feet Under, and see how free standing that is. Even something like Friends - if you only watched one episode in your life, you wouldn't pick-up lots of things within it that are interlinked - e.g. why dioes everyone laugh when Joey says "How you doin'", why is there that weird skinny dog scuplture, and why do they seem to have lived in each other's flats ? Of course football matches are interlinked, but not to the point that just because you're showing Cork v Shels you should give a feck about Waterford v Longford the same weekend.

If you're going to respond in a snide way then please don't bother..

[A face]

.......

Anyway ... back to my point ... should RTE give up the licence fee that is allocated for sport if they are going to spend it on foregin leagues, Wimbeldon and F1 where there are no Irish teams ??