Time for the GAA and schools to admit they are ashamed of their past.

[Thunderblaster]

In 1972 at Congress in Belfast, the GAA deleted Rule 27, which was "The Ban" on "foreign games". It was a rule that was shameful to the development of our nation as it fostered a fundamentalist attitude towards soccer. Kids were beaten and expelled from school for playing soccer, vigilantes went to soccer games to spy on members of the GAA and ban them from the local GAA club and possibly attached a stigma to these people who commited the "capital crime" of attending a soccer match. Even today, local GAA clubs would tell kids not to play soccer before a big GAA game would come up. A parent told me that a GAA official had a go at him for letting his son play soccer. The parent told him that his son will play whatever he wants to play. The GAA official's friends advised the official to back down from the parent. Will the GAA ever come out and admit that it is ashamed that it had such a rule that was discriminatory against the rights of children of what they wanted to play and will surviving school teachers admit that they are ashamed to punish kids for playing sports other that GAA games. The ban was a serious violation of human rights and if society was so different many years ago, the GAA would have been taken to the United Nations or the League of Nations for human rights abuses. As an Irishman and a soccerman, I am ashamed that the ban ever existed and I am ashamed that children were punished at school for playing soccer. I have never personally experienced it but some older forumites would have stories to tell on the matter. I am not anti-GAA but I am anti-ban. The Ban was the most disgraceful rule ever brought into any sport. If I ran the country on my attitude during them times, I would have destroyed the GAA over the rule by giving it no funding, and if I was the Parish Priest, I would have blackened the GAA from the Pulpit over that barbaric rule.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Good post. It makes my blood boil to think that this country accepted such a violation of human rights. However, I would like to make a few points:

1. Do you really think the GAA has changed? My answer is NO. The society we live in has changed and the context within which we live our lives has changed. However, the GAA has not changed. If they could still get away with a ban on "foreign games" they would. For instance, why have we had to wait until 2005 for a temporary abandonment of Rule 42. Why are taxpayers who follow soccer and rugby unwelcome in the stadium they helped build on Jones' Road? Why would Irishmen like Shay Given and Paul O'Connell be unwelcome in a stadium funded by the taxpayers of this country, but American footballers and Garth Brooks be welcomed with open arms. The fact that so many Irish people would find this acceptable in modern Ireland would make you feel ashamed to be Irish. There is still a large proportion of the GAA who could only be described as backward and sectarian small-town, parochial nobodies.

2. You mentioned that if you were a priest you would have shamed the GAA from the pulpit. I don't think the clergy in this country have a right to shame anyone. The Catholic Church is a disease that has been eating away at this country for so long. They have been afforded a position which they were never entitled to. Part of the problem is that the GAA and the Catholic Church are two sides to the one coin, ie. two of the most corrupt organisations on this island.
The abuses carried out by the Church leaves me sick as an Irishman. People can come on this forum and tell me that it was/is only a minority. However, the fact that 90% of bishops on this island took out insurance policies in the late 80s to protect their dioceses from potential scandals speaks volumes.

As proud, forward-thinking Irish people we should be ashamed of the role played by both the GAA and the Catholic Church in the development (or lack of it) of our nation.

I really hope that as the urban areas of Ireland continue to grow, both soccer and rugby will continue to flourish and grow in popularity. I won't loose any sleep if the future generations leave Gaelic games in the shade, where it belongs.

[Thunderblaster]

Rule 42 is another point of a violation of human rights. The fact that it is temporarily removed in 2005 shows the insipid, narrow mindedness of an organisation immersed in inverted racism. Not too long ago, members of the RUC were threatening to take the GAA to the European Court of Justice.
The man who was responsible for the special relationship between Church and State was Eamon de Valera. The country was ran on a nationalist and religious fundamentalist attitude from 1922 until 1972. The EEC would have put the boot in otherwise, though fragments of the nationalist and religious fundamentalist attitude continued to exist up to about ten years ago. The GAA is well immersed in its warped ideaology anyway. Members of the farming community swear by it. One person told me one time that the farmers would sell their tractors to the GAA when the organisation would go out fundraising.

[CollegeTillIDie]

The "ban" rule when it was in force was broken in any number of ways. People played soccer under "aliases" for example. But yes it was ridiculous and stupid and they took too darn long before abandoning it. However it still persists in some counties in Women's Gaelic Football where members of certain county panels are " barred" from also playing soccer by the selectors of the county teams .

[Ringy]

Why did the FAI need Croke park surely the most populer sport in the world and second most populer played sport in Ireland as pointed out by a recent ERSI poll would have their own stadium in the 21st century?

With all the anti GAA posting going on here surely you won't support the Irish soccer team playing in the GAA's stadium considering as already stated what the GAA has done down the years such as the ban.

As regard to people hopeing that the GAA dies well im afraid it couldnt be further from the truth infact it has already occured in soccer.Going through streets of cities with the exception of Cork which in 90% a gaa city, the young kids now have hurleys in their hands(hopefully useing them with good intent) or soloing footballs which was not that comman 10 years ago especially in Dublin.More people watching the the ALL irelands on the tele compared to to those who watched Ireland and France on the tele etc.Im afraid its soccer which is in its bleakest hour and as a forward thinking Irishman and GAA man I sincerely hope soccers plight will cease to continue.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Why did the FAI need Croke park surely the most populer sport in the world and second most populer played sport in Ireland as pointed out by a recent ERSI poll would have their own stadium in the 21st century?

With all the anti GAA posting going on here surely you won't support the Irish soccer team playing in the GAA's stadium considering as already stated what the GAA has done down the years such as the ban.

As regard to people hopeing that the GAA dies well im afraid it couldnt be further from the truth infact it has already occured in soccer.Going through streets of cities with the exception of Cork which in 90% a gaa city, the young kids now have hurleys in their hands(hopefully useing them with good intent) or soloing footballs which was not that comman 10 years ago especially in Dublin.More people watching the the ALL irelands on the tele compared to to those who watched Ireland and France on the tele etc.Im afraid its soccer which is in its bleakest hour and as a forward thinking Irishman and GAA man I sincerely hope soccers plight will cease to continue.

Maybe if the FAI and IRFU had received 184 million euros in taxpayers money they could have built a state of the art stadium too. As for soccer and rugby teams playing in Croke Park, I can't wait. Without the taxpayers of this country the stadium would never have been built. The soccer and rugby people of this country have no reason to feel indebted to the GAA and should hold their heads high when they enter Croke Park.

As for gaelic games being as healthy as you make out, that can hardly be the case. While the GAA might be attracting large attendances, their games are slowly in demise in the country's urban centres. Why can a city like Dublin with a population of well over one million people not compete with Ulster counties that have a modest nationalist population? Soccer and rugby have a stranglehold on sporting minds in the capital. This is a trend which is developing throughout the country.

BTW, I went to a secondary school which put a ban on its gaelic footballers playing other sports. That was only 5 years ago. The same ban is still in existence.

[geysir]

Members of the farming community swear by it. One person told me one time that the farmers would sell their tractors to the GAA when the organisation would go out fundraising.

One person told me one time that......
Have you ever met a farmer? A farmer sell his tractor ??
might sell his wife, he might even sell his kids if the price was right but the tractor??
I did not experience any sporting prejudice myself, we played rugby and soccer in the school yard and on gaelic pitches in a CBS in the heart of GAA land that time forgot before the ban was lifted. Ah happy memories, probably some comely maidens dancing at the crossroads to complete the rural picture of bliss.
I think you should actually talk to someone who went to school or elsewhere in the 60's and 70's and if the only trauma they have, is having their soccer ball confiscated by the manic school principal then consider them blessed by fate.
I had to tell my sister the other day that it was okay she could watch "Father Ted".
Well okay if we are to get all the organizations to line up and apologize for the wrongs they have inflicted on the generations, the GAA might be there in some subsection marked miscellaneous trauma of an almost irrelevant undefined nature.
Come to think of it, shove in the FAI for the trauma inflicted on a nation who witnessed our recent attempt to qualify for the WC.
What, women playing gaelic? I was born at the wrong time. I could have helped a few of them with their solo run.

[beautifulrock]

"GAA dying in Urban areas", look around and open your eyes will you. Count the number of clubs that now need a second GAA pitch....is that a sign of demise. I am no "tinted glasses" GAA fan but give credit where credit is due.

[geysir]

Maybe if the FAI and IRFU had received 184 million euros in taxpayers money they could have built a state of the art stadium too. As for soccer and rugby teams playing in Croke Park, I can't wait. Without the taxpayers of this country the stadium would never have been built. The soccer and rugby people of this country have no reason to feel indebted to the GAA and should hold their heads high when they enter Croke Park.

JPM, according to Gov. publication.
http://www.arts-sport-tourism.gov.ie...ail.asp?ID=659
Croke Park has received €110m towards a total cost of €260m = 42% funding
The FAI and IRFU will receive €190m towards a total cost of €290m = 65% funding. Croke Park development did not wait for taxpayers money they went ahead full force with about €75m from corporate seat sales.
While Croke Park was being revamped over 10 or so years not one Leinster Final, All-Ireland semi-final or final, in either hurling or football, had to be played outside Croke Park during that time.
Seriously, are the GAA responsible for the FAI's bad decisions lack of decisions planning, corruption.

As for gaelic games being as healthy as you make out, that can hardly be the case. While the GAA might be attracting large attendances, their games are slowly in demise in the country's urban centres. Why can a city like Dublin with a population of well over one million people not compete with Ulster counties that have a modest nationalist population? Soccer and rugby have a stranglehold on sporting minds in the capital. This is a trend which is developing throughout the country

.
Contrary to perceptions size does not matter as much in GAA land as it may do other sports A small townland/village club with the team made up mainly from a few families can still reach the All Ireland club final.
The evidence points to Croke park development huge success,
Championship football, definite improvement in skill and fitness levels throughout the county squads. Attendances are still good, compare
Fai cup s/f Drogheda 4,500 same day Tyrone club final 7,000
Fai cup s/f Cork 7.000 ? Cork hurling club final 15- 20,000
other,Cork club football 7,000 Waterford 8,000 Galway 10,000 Kilkenny 13,000
Irish people in large numbers do follow soccer, but they don't follow Irish soccer.
Therin lies a serious home truth. Blame who you want.
EL clubs are struggling and yet making progress with mini crowds..
Instead of the FAI officials singing merrily on the plane home from Belfast 1993 "you can stick the gaa up yer arshe", I would suggest that they might learn a few things from the GAA sporting ethos and infrastructure.
Consider for eg, how many millions have been spent on FAI Chief Executive salaries and compare it to what Sean Kelly gets paid for petrol.

[CollegeTillIDie]

The FAI and it's members in the highest league over the years paid it's players for their efforts on the field. Maybe not too handsomely at times but never the less. Unlike the GAA who built up their infrastructure on the backs of their members and on occasion the players couldn't even get a sandwich and a cup of tea after playing in front of 60,000 odd people.

[CollegeTillIDie]

JPM, according to Gov. publication.
http://www.arts-sport-tourism.gov.ie...ail.asp?ID=659
Croke Park has received €110m towards a total cost of €260m = 42% funding
The FAI and IRFU will receive €190m towards a total cost of €290m = 65% funding. Croke Park development did not wait for taxpayers money they went ahead full force with about €75m from corporate seat sales.
While Croke Park was being revamped over 10 or so years not one Leinster Final, All-Ireland semi-final or final, in either hurling or football, had to be played outside Croke Park during that time.
Seriously, are the GAA responsible for the FAI's bad decisions lack of decisions planning, corruption.
.
Contrary to perceptions size does not matter as much in GAA land as it may do other sports A small townland/village club with the team made up mainly from a few families can still reach the All Ireland club final.
The evidence points to Croke park development huge success,
Championship football, definite improvement in skill and fitness levels throughout the county squads. Attendances are still good, compare
Fai cup s/f Drogheda 4,500 same day Tyrone club final 7,000
Fai cup s/f Cork 7.000 ? Cork hurling club final 15- 20,000
other,Cork club football 7,000 Waterford 8,000 Galway 10,000 Kilkenny 13,000
Irish people in large numbers do follow soccer, but they don't follow Irish soccer.
Therin lies a serious home truth. Blame who you want.
EL clubs are struggling and yet making progress with mini crowds..
Instead of the FAI officials singing merrily on the plane home from Belfast 1993 "you can stick the gaa up yer arshe", I would suggest that they might learn a few things from the GAA sporting ethos and infrastructure.
Consider for eg, how many millions have been spent on FAI Chief Executive salaries and compare it to what Sean Kelly gets paid for petrol.

I was at a Leinster Club hurling game yesterday in Parnell Park in front of less than 200 people. We are a nation of event junkies and we do not as a people attend Bread and butter games. Dublin in the National League barely fill Parnell Park ( capacity 10,000 including standing). Yet put the Dubs on in the Championship in Croker and 250,000 people are looking for tickets.

As regards your comments re: Chief Executives I have this to say about Mr. Kelly. Sean Kelly has done more good for the image of the GAA than any of his predecessors, he deserves a hell of a lot more than mere petrol money for his efforts.

[beautifulrock]

aah the old sanwich and cup of tea quote, well i played for a small GAA club for over 20 years and never wanted for anything be it physio, transport, etc

[Thunderblaster]

JPM, according to Gov. publication.
http://www.arts-sport-tourism.gov.ie...ail.asp?ID=659
Croke Park has received €110m towards a total cost of €260m = 42% funding
The FAI and IRFU will receive €190m towards a total cost of €290m = 65% funding.

Still the same taxpayers that are paying tax. The GAA diehards, the soccer diehards and everybody else. When we pay our taxes towards projects, we should ALL reap the benefits, not SLAMMING THE DOOR into the faces of other organisations. There should be no ban of any description within the GAA. Remember, the GAA was amongst the greatest violators of human rights within the State throughout the 20th century and the GAA should never have got government money while they were abusing the rights of people in their choice of sport.

[geysir]

I was at a Leinster Club hurling game yesterday in Parnell Park in front of less than 200 people. We are a nation of event junkies and we do not as a people attend Bread and butter games. Dublin in the National League barely fill Parnell Park ( capacity 10,000 including standing). Yet put the Dubs on in the Championship in Croker and 250,000 people are looking for tickets.

CTD, I put forward a point that the FAI are responsible for their own mess.
I stand by the basic point that blaming the gaa for the state of Irish soccer is avoiding the real issues.
I seem to remember pointing out some facts to you before about so called GAA event junkies but you still persist in hanging around the long queue of begrudgers in this country.
Lets see, what does Dessie Farrell (Tangled up in Blue, page 102) say, one of Dublin's great club captains with Na Fianna. "There is some amount of nonsense spoken about Dublin fans. Their support throughout the championship has always been fantastic, why is it always being questioned by our country colleagues. The "where-were-they-during-the-national-league? brigade.... Hill 16 is a fabulous spectacle and an awe inspiring backdrop for a Dublin footballer. Unlike the country towns and villages the city folk don't necessarily have the bond with clubs and parishes. They relate directly to the Dublin county team which should be encouraged..."

re Croke Park being built on the back of its members and no cups of tea..
Thats the point, The GAA supporters don't have to shout "oh croke park we own you" Its taken for granted that all the infrastructure is owned by the members built from the foundations up over the decades
In fact when the vote came to open up Croker, it was taken by delegates mandated by a vote which had its roots at club level. Every asset is protected by a constitution.

[geysir]

Still the same taxpayers that are paying tax. The GAA diehards, the soccer diehards and everybody else. When we pay our taxes towards projects, we should ALL reap the benefits, not SLAMMING THE DOOR into the faces of other organisations. There should be no ban of any description within the GAA. Remember, the GAA was amongst the greatest violators of human rights within the State throughout the 20th century and the GAA should never have got government money while they were abusing the rights of people in their choice of sport.

You might have had a point 33 years ago.
AFAIR that "great abuser of human rights" the ban was lifted in 1972.
No sporting organization is obliged to open its gates to other sports either legally or morally.The GAA quite rightly resisted political pressure. Its a choice which the GAA choose to do with a very democratic vote.
The ban on british army, ruc and their like was lifted. Its simple quid pro quo, the British Army have given up their occupation of GAA playing grounds, they no longer fly their helicopters low over GAA games, the RUC has been disbanded, the GAA ban has been lifted. The NI police college has been accepted into the Sigursen cup competition. It has been publically welcomed by the GAA, the North moves on a bit the GAA moves on a bit maybe you should also move on a bit.
Afair the questions of Government funding (in reality, is just a vat rebate) for soccer was more of an issue because of the way that organization was run, did not meet the basic qualifications.

[Dodge]

Remember, the GAA was amongst the greatest violators of human rights within the State throughout the 20th century

I hate the GAA more than most but relax on the completely OTT rhetoric. In the past week we've had a couple of reports come out which detailed disgusting "human rights" violations so please don't compare the GAA not allowing players to mix sports in thosse terms. Remember they didn't stop people playing football, they just wouldn't allow people to play both.

[Ringy]

. There is still a large proportion of the GAA who could only be described as backward and sectarian small-town, parochial nobodies.(by Jamaciam M.P)





Funny that,the statement above, didnt the FAI get fined a few years back for Irish fans booing a former Rangers player who was playing for Georgia.

[Superhoops]

. Funny that,the statement above, didnt the FAI get fined a few years back for Irish fans booing a former Rangers player who was playing for Georgia.

Nearly right, the FAI got fined a few years back for nobheads, mainly in green and white hooped jerseys, posing as Irish fans booing a former Rangers player who was playing for Georgia

[geysir]

Nearly right, the FAI got fined a few years back for nobheads, mainly in green and white hooped jerseys, posing as Irish fans booing a former Rangers player who was playing for Georgia

I appreciate your honesty in such a sensitive matter

Thats an interesting one, if its true.
If a club / national federation were fined every time a soccer crowd boo a referee, opposing player or even their own players there would be some bankruptcies around. How do they work it out, okay they booed Pires because he dived no charge, they booed Viera for a bad tackle, no charge, they cheered Keane for a bad tackle, €5000 fine They booed Kishanvilla? because he once played for Rangers therefore €5,000. How is the case proven? do they just assume that's the case no need to proove it ?
Is there some booing observer at the games.

[soccerc]

Nearly right, the FAI got fined a few years back for nobheads, mainly in green and white hooped jerseys, posing as Irish fans booing a former Rangers player who was playing for Georgia

Another myth, the FAI were never fined, sanctioned or warned for the unacceptable behaviour of some for booing players at the Georgia game or any other game for that matter