Odds on Troussier slashed

[wws]

WWS, if I went in to the St Pats section of foot.ie and started pontificating about St. Pats, I would be rightly told to fcuk off. This is the National Team Section of foot.ie where we are debating the manager of the Irish team. I am as much of a supporter of this team as you are and as many of the people of post on it. I do not support the LOI as much as you for various reasons but the main one is that I grew up in Clare and as a result did not build an allegiance to a team. It would be fake to me now to just pick a team from the sky in the LOI to support. I do go to a few of the games during a season but I do not feel passionate about it as I do about the Irish National team. This section of the forum is for Supporter of the Irish football to debate issues etc. Your club allegiances has nothing to do with it and should be kept out of here. Also you are showing your lack of intellect and manners by consistantly having personal attacks on people.

someone above brought up a point about the LOI stuff so thats when I went off on one. There are many people on this thread not just you ffs

[NeilMcD]

They brought up the point due to the fact you had a go at someone who has an avator of the Irish National team on a thread that is about the Irish Natinoal team. I am entitled to support the Irish national team and I am as much of a supporter of that team that a lot of the people on this website. you were the one that started making it personal by having a go at Ireland supporters on a thread that is mean to be about the next Ireland manager. You were the one trying to create divisin between what you perceive to be the real supporters (LOI supporters) and OLe Ole Ole Fans (fans of the Ireland team). I do not like to create division amongst our supporters and I would not go around suggestion who is more of a supporter than the next man. I support the team and I do not have to judge fellow supporters loyalty etc. YOu are obviously insecure inyourself and feel the need to put yourself on a pedestal. Just enjoy football and dont have so much snobbery about it.

[wws]

They brought up the point due to the fact you had a go at someone who has an avator of the Irish National team on a thread that is about the Irish Natinoal team. I am entitled to support the Irish national team and I am as much of a supporter of that team that a lot of the people on this website. you were the one that started making it personal by having a go at Ireland supporters on a thread that is mean to be about the next Ireland manager. You were the one trying to create divisin between what you perceive to be the real supporters (LOI supporters) and OLe Ole Ole Fans (fans of the Ireland team). I do not like to create division amongst our supporters and I would not go around suggestion who is more of a supporter than the next man. I support the team and I do not have to judge fellow supporters loyalty etc. YOu are obviously insecure inyourself and feel the need to put yourself on a pedestal. Just enjoy football and dont have so much snobbery about it.

actually Mr Selective, I had a go at you for plucking BS out of the air and presenting them as facts. I came back with a few actual facts re results of the national team boss and you went off on one. The infamous "fai" avatar that seems to be your biggest bone of contention is a corporate logo introduced recent(ish)ly by a now sacked Chief Executive of an organisation that I've had a lot of issues with for various reasons - the whole fcking my club over thing was a little sore point with me. I don't question your right to follow Ireland. I will slag the FAI and their joke logo, with plenty of reason by the way. I did make an observation that a lot of the "Ireland" fans (and lets define it here in terms of this site as posters who follow ireland but have no interest in any irish football club - not judging either way just defining terms lest you misinterpret my post for the umpteenth time!) as such wanted Kerr out based on results while a lot of the LOI posters had reasonably pointed out (as indeed had Mark Lawrenson ie not just some LOI love in) that in context the results were not all that bad. Especially not at all bad in the context of the history of Irish participation in qualifiers. Anyway that was my main point. Its my central pet theory that we've all gone bonkers in thinking that Ireland have a natural right to qualify. For me bad players and bad luck made us just miss out. I would have liked to see Kerr get another try based on the terms given to his predecessor and the fact that players who were obviously less than committed to the Ireland cause in any case were dropping out of international football - I felt he could have made a clean sweep and learned from his mistakes as McCarthy did.

[NeilMcD]

Your fatal flaw was to make it personal. I have no problem you arguing that kerr should stay on As part of me would think of nothing better than kerr leading us to Euro 2008. I actually liked him and I think that he made lots of good decisions and I very rarely disagreed with his team selection. However in my view he did not get the best out of the players at his disposal. I agree we dont have world beaters but I do think that we have players better than Switzerland and Israel. I also think that in the pressure games he made some bad decisions. IN addition the performances seemed to be gettting worse rather than better.

I was no fan of Mc Carthy and I think that Kerr is a better manager however Mick did seem to have players playing above themselves. We also never finished outside to top 2 with Mc Carthy. We have never finished inside the top 2 with Kerr. I think that is the main reason why he went. Also I do think that just cause Mc Carthy was given a chance after making mistakes does not mean Kerr should be. Maybe Delaney is of the view that Mc Carthy shoudl not have been kept on after 1998 or 2000.


All in all it is a very tight decision and my heart said that I wanted Kerr to stay but my head said that he had to go. My main reason for thinking he should go is that over the last 2 years and 9 months. Only 90 minutes against France was I proud of team. Every other game was depressing and a bore and I felt the players underperformed. Even Scotland got 2 wins away from home against Norway and Slovenia. They also had a win against Holland at home. We have not had one great day under Brian Kerr. It really does pain me to say it as I was all for him getting the job. In addition there are many LOI supporters who are calling for him to go too. But I dont see why a divide needs to be created on this issue. A manager shoudl be judged on results not on whether his background is LOI of English Premierhip etc. Its seems to me that it you that is bringing that issue regarding the fans. When I go supporting Ireland, I dont ask people who do they support at club level as this is only divisive. Everybody is there to support Ireland and we are united in that. I say leave club football debates out of national issues.

[joeSoap]

revised odds show huge money for both Burley and Troussier...or is Mr Power running for cover?

[wws]

+actually someone else posted about kerr being out of his depth etc etc it was a sly dig but there is a malaise in irish international football at the moment - the players took the easy route cause a lot of them no longer rate international football as a priority - changing the manager was a disaster in my opinion during this time - it will not improve matters - and if the new boss loses one competitive game than by current standards layed down by delaney he should walk.....it defies logic

the performances have been absolutely sh.t uder kerr - but what came first? since world cup in japan/korea the players havent given a toss and have played consistently badly as a group under two managers - I think Kerr's copped an awful lot of the blame for an underlying malaise in the irish international team and I dont think some big 1 million pound a year hot shot from over seas is gonna parachute in and make it all better

[Bald Student]

I do not support the LOI as much as you for various reasons but the main one is that I grew up in Clare and as a result did not build an allegiance to a team. It would be fake to me now to just pick a team from the sky in the LOI to support.

That's fair enough Neil. I'd be interested to hear wheather or not you picked any foreign teams out of the sky (an appropriate phrase) to support.

[NeilMcD]

No I the only team I support is the Irish team. I look out for results for Bohemians, go to a few of their games. Have gone to games in Spain while On holiday or over for a weekend. Have gone to England for a few games while visiting friends. BUt the only team that I support and that their results effect my mood are the Irish team. However people are entitled to suppport whoever they liked to support and I would not judge someone on the back of it.

[drinkfeckarse]

+actually someone else posted about kerr being out of his depth etc etc it was a sly dig

It wasn't a dig at all just my opinion based on his decision making

and if the new boss loses one competitive game than by current standards layed down by delaney he should walk.....it defies logic

If he loses 1 game and wins most of the others, that would be the difference. Kerrs problem was that he drew too many times with medioce teams.

the performances have been absolutely sh.t uder kerr

Very true and ultimately the buck stops with the manager.

You're argument about him losing only 1 competitive game in this qualifying group isn't the issue. The team drew too many times as I've said and didn't look like winning many. The performaces grew steadily worse so it can't have come as that much of a surprise to see him go. BTW I agree with your point about too many people thinking that we've an automatic right to qualify these days.

[joeSoap]

The team drew too many times as I've said and didn't look like winning many.

That, sadly is down to overly negative tactics....A 2-0 lead after 12 mins against Israel at home ffs, only to decide that we must 'hold what we have' instead of going out for more to boost our goal difference. Thats gotta be down to Brian Kerr...its not instinctive for players like Duff, Andy Reid, Kilbane etc to switch off into defensive mode. Same inTel Aviv. At the end of the day, its those dropped 4 points that prevented us from winning the group. Instead, we're watching on the TV.

When Kerr was offered the job, the only experience of adult management was with a very much part time St Pats a decade ago. Everything he did with the schoolboys should not have been taken into consideration for a position as crucial as that of Ireland manager. He is now getting short shrift from his employers in a bid to divert the egg from their own faces to his. He got no support, apart from Chris Hughton who I gather is an ignoramus who gave Kerr very little support at all, especially none in public. When the position was offered to him, it should have been as part of a double act, such as the one he is being touted for now with Bobby Robson at Hearts, where Robson does all the admin and Kerr does the coaching. Robson would be on the bench to offer support, advice and maybe spot the odd crucial tactic Kerr may miss.

This is all one very sad, sorry affair, and we as fans together with Brian Kerr are the only losers. Our association live in the 1800's, and if we are happy with egotistical neanderthals running our association, then we deserve everytrhing we get.

[eirebhoy]

That, sadly is down to overly negative tactics....A 2-0 lead after 12 mins against Israel at home ffs, only to decide that we must 'hold what we have' instead of going out for more to boost our goal difference. Thats gotta be down to Brian Kerr...its not instinctive for players like Duff, Andy Reid, Kilbane etc

I told believe that for a second tbh. We didn't switch into defensive mode, the Israeli's just got back into the game and were getting down the wings with ease. Anyway, watch Chelsea in the Nou camp to see how Chelsea completely fold when they go 1-0 up. Its instinctive for any normal person to defend a lead. Its called psychology and when you have lost leads twice already in the group it plays on the players minds. An example I always use is England. People blame Sven for sitting back on a lead. Very few manager would tell their players to do so. You can't beat the mind. Anyway, this is in the past and I'm looking to the future now.

[wws]

You're argument about him losing only 1 competitive game in this qualifying group isn't the issue. The team drew too many times as I've said and didn't look like winning many. The performaces grew steadily worse so it can't have come as that much of a surprise to see him go. BTW I agree with your point about too many people thinking that we've an automatic right to qualify these days.

I cannot agree with that. In the context of the group all the other teams were drawing as well - it was that tight. In my opinion France and Switzerland were and ARE 'marginally' better than us and Israel put up 6 excellent performances home and away against France, Switzerland and Ireland. Sh.t happens. I'd easily give him one more term just to root out who really did want to play in green and who didn't as I believe the real problem lay with certain so called superstar players.

[joeSoap]

I'd easily give him one more term just to root out who really did want to play in green and who didn't as I believe the real problem lay with certain so called superstar players.

I'd agree with you there alright. It seemed clear to me that the likes of Robbie Keane, Steven Carr and maybe one or two others simply did not have the hunger or attitude required to qualify for a world cup.

[Don Vito]

Well anyone who uses an FAI corporate logo without a hint of irony is coming from a different place from this football fan. Not up for argument. We come from different football perspectives and totally different perspectives of what that logo stands for and represents. I used to use a Linfield logo on here myself (in jest) so I'm not gonna hammer on about it as its a small point in the overall scheme of things. As for the poster above waffling on about EL fans as if we were some sub section of things....newsflash....we ARE football in this country, you lot are just playing at being football fans. I can never take some five match a season Ireland fan seriously. That's just me. To be honest the fai logo/olérs make me sick. Oh and Brian Kerr had one campaign as Ireland boss not two. The same sh.t players had already ensured non qualification with defeats in russia and v the swiss before he got the job.

It's quotes remarks like this one that really p!ss me off, its the likes of this that is giving the rest of the EL fans on this forum a bad name. What gives you the right to declare the the Eircom League is the be all and end all of Irish football? I grew up in Wexford, an hour and a half from the nearest EL club, Bray/Waterford, I feel absolutely no connection with any Eircom league club, as NeilMcD has pointed out am I supposed to pluck a team out of the air and pledge my heart to them just so I can call myself a real Ireland fan and not a 'play one? B**lox to that. Are you telling me that because of where I was born I'll never do anything but 'play' at being an Ireland fan? B**lox to that.

There are two aspects to football in my life, Ireland and my local team. And in my opinion local clubs, and the people who dedicate their lives to raising money for them and training teams, are far more important for Irish football than the Eircom league at this point in time and it will remain that way until the Eircom league is radically transformed.

WWS are you related to or friendly with Kerr by any chance?! The man had to go, he had his chance and under his leadership I saw nothing that indicated things would improve in the near future. I take your point about him losing one competitive game, its a fair argument, however you cannot fail to see that it was the unacceptable amount of drawn games that cost him his job.

By the way, NeilMcD and Stuttgart88 have to be contenders for Post of the Month.

[Karlos]

There are two aspects to football in my life, Ireland and my local team. And in my opinion local clubs, and the people who dedicate their lives to raising money for them and training teams, are far more important for Irish football than the Eircom league at this point in time and it will remain that way until the Eircom league is radically transformed.

By the way, NeilMcD and Stuttgart88 have to be contenders for Post of the Month.

Add yourself to that list of post of the month contenders.

Your point above is something I've mentioned on numerous occaisions on this site. Up until last week when I left Ireland, I was coaching two nights a week plus attending two games on Saturday and Sunday with my under age and adult teams. For me, you cannot support Irish soccer any closer than being involved at grass roots level and dedicating more than 90 minutes of vocal support a week to the game in this country

I've said it before and I'll reiterate, if every single 'Real' football fan would go out and do an basic coaching course and attach themselves to a local club, the future of good quality soccer in this country could be secured. As it is we have unqualified coaches running youth teams when you fast forward ten years - there's a few lads who go to a game of irish football a week sitting in a pub giving out about the standard of the national team, the game, and the players etc.....

And there's no need for anyone to pin the blame on the FAI for this one either - they are running well organised coaching courses as we speak - just give up a weekend and get qualified.

[wws]

real football fans put the results in proper context and dont get taken in by PR waffle

he lost one game - they hung him out to dry - I disagree with it. I notice the majority who agree wholeheartedly with it seem to have FAI logos - hence my dig at them. Fair comment in my book. I said previously those who follow the Ireland team exclusively look down on those who follow the EL - and those that follow the EL generally look on the Oireland brigade as clueless muppets. The reaction to the management fiasco by the fai bears this out.

Brian Kerr - Irish Managerial Legend. End of.

[Karlos]

what's the reaction of the EL Fans to those same FAI Supporters who have provided them with so many of the players they now support through their development at youth level at local clubs? Still Clueless muppets??? thought as much!

[wws]

by getting rid of a manger who lost one game - yes. clueless - (theres plenty of other reasons too but I aint got time to list the catalogue of shame from merrion sq.)

[Dotsy]

real football fans put the results in proper context and dont get taken in by PR waffle

he lost one game - they hung him out to dry - I disagree with it. I notice the majority who agree wholeheartedly with it seem to have FAI logos - hence my dig at them. Fair comment in my book. I said previously those who follow the Ireland team exclusively look down on those who follow the EL - and those that follow the EL generally look on the Oireland brigade as clueless muppets. The reaction to the management fiasco by the fai bears this out.

Brian Kerr - Irish Managerial Legend. End of.

I just had a quick look back over some of the Should Kerr Go or Not thread and other related treads and it's pretty evenly split between EL people/FAI logo people /Others as to whether he should go or not . I like the man alot but I thought it was time for him to go. We haven't got great players but I thought even then we still should have made a play off place in what was a poor group overall. If we can't strive to be the best that we can be despite our limitations then we might as jack it in. A play off place in this group was realistic not an over hyped ambition.I honestly thought we should have done better something I didn't expect from McCarty. Gettng us to the play offs against Belgium and Turkey were about all I thought we would achieve in those campaigns. Anyway it's just my view . But I'll tell you one thing I am absolutely sure of and that is I know a fair amount about the game after playing it for the best part of 20 years. I don't play anymore but I am still involved in my local club, and get to see EL games most weeks. Don't assume you know anything about me just because I use the logo of our national team as my avitar .

[wws]

ive opened up a whole can of worms here

but in conclusion - anyone who uses an fai avatar is in general - a complete pr.ck