QuoteWell, with some peoples humble "opinions" 'round here, thank god we live in a democracy!!! A vote is for peolpe to use as they see fit, no??!! (No matter their place on the foodchain!!)
Originally Posted by Dodge
Like what Dodge? What's the square root of 292929394949595?
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
Do tell.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
Well, with some peoples humble "opinions" 'round here, thank god we live in a democracy!!! A vote is for peolpe to use as they see fit, no??!! (No matter their place on the foodchain!!)
"Inflatable hammers and Leprechaun suits, & a chorus of "Here we go" or Olé, Olé"....
I think some people here have forgot the FACT that the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are two seperate countries under different governments.
It won't happen ever and even if it could happen I wouldn't want it due to the obvious political reasons.
Unless the British hand those 6 counties back then I'd be up for it.
2006 predictions:
Premier Division - 1. Shelbourne, 2. Cork City, 3. Derry City, 12. Bohemians.
1st Division - 8. Shamrock Rovers
it'd never work. they have enough trouble deciding what they should call themselves as it is- "what flag should i bring to tonights game? union jack,english flag,ulster flag,english flag with the little crown in the middle or with the red hand in the middle? dang.
In a perfect world its an idea but there would be row all over the place.
if it did happen though at least the pitch in windsor park has a surface that you can actually pass the ball on!
I
Don't you 'get it'? The British aren't holding onto NI; they don't want it.
What is holding up Irish unity (on political, sporting and other levels) is that Unionists in the north-east of Ireland don't trust the majority that would ultimately dominate them. And as long as we label them 'bigots', call their British identity illegitimate and generally deride their cultures and traditions, their not likely to look on us more favourably anytime soon. We need to be their friends as much as they need to be ours.
Great Britain comprises England, Scotland and Wales. NI isn't British, as far as I can see.
Have to echo Dodge's post. Some remarkably stupid reasons given here. Some people have no sense of proportion...
Oddly enough you only seem to half 'get it'. Strictly geographically NI isn't British, but to deny that northern unionists have a British identity, or worse, to imply that it is illegitimate is precisely the reason they won't join a united Ireland.
Like it or not, if we ever want a UI (and I most certainly do) we are all going to have to recognise that having a British identity, and wishing to express that politically is a legitimate politically (through state institutions), is perfectly legitimate. After all, the unionist position (that Ireland and Britain are culturally linked) is completely pragmatic - don't most Irishmen already watch BBC, support Man Utd, listen to British music, win British literary prizes, etc, etc.. ? I'm not advocating rejoining the UK (at any stretch of the imagination), but we need to stop defining everything we do in opposition to our nearest neighbours.
If, as a society, we were able to recognise that you could be a commited Irishman, whilst at the same time having affection for the society accross the Irish sea (as is currently the case for most people in private), we would reap great rewards politically, socially, and possibly even sportingly.
NO... i'll think about re-considering.... if Scotland and Wales merge with England!
I'd go along with much of what CRC said. There is a irreconcilable complex within some Irish attitudes to Britishness. I remember a mate of mine (Irish) saying to me years ago how he thought the Irish were a feckin hoot -going on about how much they hate the brits and hate knacks ...and then settle down for an evenings prime time viewing watching programmes predominantly built around british knacks.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
Rarely have I read anything so stupid. Jim Boyce, are you having a laugh? I'm not a fan of Delaney but he's surely better than the biggot Boyce. This is a man who once wrote a letter to a young player from the North who declared for the Republic and played underage football. Boyce asked the player whether the fact that his mother was a Catholic had anything to do with the decision. The young player replied saying "no" and that he had waited for a call-up from the North but never received one. He thought it was funny how he got into Brian Kerr's underage squad at a time when the Republic had just won two European Championships, but couldn't make it for the North. He knew that sectarianism was the reason. By all accounts Jim Boyce is the Ollie Byrne of Northern football.
As for merging with the North, I do see some benefits. We would have 3 Premiership goalkeepers - Given, Taylor and Carroll. We would attain an excellent young midfielder - Steven Davis, as well as a proven international goalscorer - David Healy. A fit George McCartney might also have a claim to a starting place. Furthermore, the North will have a 30,000 all-seater stadium in a few years.
However, I'm against the idea of a merger. While it would be good to have a merger between the EL and IL, we have to remember that the Republic and the North are two different countries. I don't particularly want to see a 32 county republic. I think we have enough to look after with the 26 counties. Anyway, with the majority of the North's population considering themselves British, I believe they have a right to remain as a separate entity.
Some people have short memories here. It is the same Northern Ireland supporters that levelled sectarian and racial abuse at Packie Bonner and Paul McGrath at Windsor Park in November 1993. I would never support the same team as them.
Neither nation is ready for a merger.
"Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe." Dillo
excellent post. spot on.
Sorry JPM the only thing I agree with you on there is that neither side is ready for a merger.
You might be a bit choosy I think with bits of the story about whoever the young fellah was who decided to chuck in his lot with us. had he been playing for NI at any level? Boyce or anyone else from the IFA is as entitled to try and turn him 'round as the kid is to turn towards us.
Seriously -a charge that sectarianism kept an underage player out of an NI youth team just doesn't stand up to even the most scant scrutiny -Martin O'Neill?, Pat Jennings?, Gerry Armstrong?, Gerry Taggart?, Neil Lennon? All NI heroes in their day, all from Nationalist backgrounds.
As for "what we get out of it" -the reasons you give -a handful of players and maybe a stadium are short term and actually a bit purile.
Now ask what do they get out of it. If rugby is anything to go by -then not much by the looks of things.
I'm a nationalist and someday I would like to see a 32 county unified state -but with a fair deal and a hole lot of horse trading from both sides. One of those horses might just be that in the eventuallity of an AI state then the north still gets to field it's own team thereafter. There's precedent out there.
As for some supporters having short memories here -November 1993 was 12 years ago. The world has turned a good few times since and we should just on with it I think. From what I can see of them these days their support is second to none. It's colourful, enthusiastic, extremely noisy and magnanimous when it doesn't go there way on the park.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
The media in the Republic seemed to think that Boyce's actions were serious at the time. How did Boyce know that the young lad had a Catholic mother from the Republic? This is the man who wanted the FAI to sign an agreement that players from the North could no longer play for the Republic, unless they complied with the normal procedure of the "granny rule" etc. Surely that would neglect the culture of Northern nationalists. As for Neil Lennon, was he treated like a NI hero?
As for the world moving on, do you really think that the Northern Ireland fans would act any differently than they did in 1993 if we played them tomorrow. I know our fans wouldn't. There may have been political progress but an sectarian element exists on both sides. Also, while the North may have received great support against England and Wales, they've struggled to fill Windsor Park over the last few years. I think we would be just as colourful and noisey if we had derby games against the English or Welsh.
"Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe." Dillo
Wasn't Boyce cairman of Cliftonville? Surely he wouldn't have obtained that position as a rabid anti-Catholic? AFAIK the agreement was that the players were free to choose North/Republic but that the Republic could not approach the player. Think Boyce complained acouple of times when the FAI approached the player. Seems fair enough to me...
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
Listen can you just give us the whole unabridged story on this kid or a link to it rather than drip feeding us extra details? How does anyone know family details about anyone else? word of mouth?
I remember hearing of the IFA complaining we were "poaching" their players. A complaint that is as yet utterly unsubstantiated. There's no agreement that could've been mooted by the IFA or that the FAI could've signed that would have disbarred people born in NI from representing us. It's a right guarenteed under the constitution. Sounds like paper talk and nothing more to me.
Neil Lennon was indeed an NI hero. His move to Celtic set a vocal minority in the NI support against him ...he had far more rooting for him than against. Neither the IFA nor the NI supporters can be blamed if some primate from the Shankill finds a 20p and uses it to make a threatening phone call.
Question: if Rangers came in for Robbie in the January window how do you think the LR crowd would react? I'm pretty certain I know how a certain vocal minority would.
I don't think us and them being drawn in the same group would be a helpful development at this stage when they're just getting on top of the muppet brigade in their support ...and we're still turning something of a blind eye ours.
They have been consistently filling windsor even when loosing 1-4 to Norway and were still lifting the roof off the place in the dying minutes of a 0-1 to Canada! Can you imagine what LR would be like if we were 0-1 down to Canada in the last few minutes with no-one looking likely to get us back on terms? We'd be gone for the Dart. They were still "doing the bouncey"
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
The really really sad thing is that our fans would................
I was at all those home and away games from 88-95 and indeed the home game in 1978 (I understand there was trouble in 78 but I can't remember any as I was only 12).
I was really proud that NI fans could sit with the home fans and cheer for their team without any adverse comments, that UJs and Ulster flags could be produced at Lansdowne Road without fear (we had other issues with too many corporates at those games I'll admit). While the events of November 93 were grossly exaggerated in the media here there was an intense sectarian atmosphere and some racist abuse of Paul McGrath also. Actually many of those sectarian bigots are probably now supporting England.
I went back to Windsor for the Azerbaijan game last month - fantastic support, great atmosphere and not a sectarian song or comment in sight. Would it be different if we played them? Possibly - I'd like to think not but it may bring back the superprods. They still had some sectarian booing of Hartson on saturday I believe so still some muppets to weed out.
Sadly I think we may well end up with the same problems. Ten years ago you could have walked around anywhere in the Republic wearing a Rangers top without a problem. I don't think you could today. Haven't seen one for a few years too here. I still cringe when I think of the guy behind me at the Denmark game calling Peter Madsen a "dirty proddie" within earshot of my Danish colleagues, or the guy that called Tore Andre Flo a "hun bast£$d" not to mention the booing. Isolated incidents by a few maybe but a concern.
Having said the above a colleague was wearing a "we're not Brazil we're NI T shirt" on Monday last in our canteen and I spotted a guy wearing a NI shirt in the Square last sunday week.
Idiot probably bought it thinking it was a Celtic away jersey...
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
Why would it be an idiot? Maybe just a northerner visiting Dublin for a shopping day, or a local who prefers NI or sympathises with NI.
If we merged would we still be able to sing Amhrán na bhFiann at away games or would we instead have to sing that b****x rugby song or God Save the Queen?
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