More British-born players anyone?(2G discussion

[Roverstillidie]

As a 2g, I'd find it hard to argue with any of that. Good post. Holland singing GSTQ is a bit hard to swallow allright although perhaps being a bit hard on Townsend - Greysteel and Princess Di?? Not being fair on the man linking those two.

perhaps, the point im making isn't, bizzarly, that there shouldnt have been a mark of respect for the woman.
its just he felt it was the correct thing to do to bring 16 black arm bands into the dressing room off his own bat before a game because she died, but his instinct didnt stretch to commerating people murdered watching the team he captained because they watched the team he captained.

that point was made at the time.

would have been gas if keano aged 30 was handed one though that would be worth seeing....

to be fair to townsend, his personality and playing style made it obvious he would give 100% all the time, something i wish i could say about some of the "natives"!

[tricky_colour]

The point I am making, which some/most/all appear to miss is what do you
do in the situation where you have an Irish father and English mother,
for instance? (Both mine are Irish, for the record).
Do you insult you fathers or your mothers nationality by not singing their
national anthem?

I don't know Hollands situation and quite frankly I am not bothered, he qualifies and want to play (because he does). He may, and probably has two
passports. Handy when your plane is hi-jacked so you can produce the correct one for the hi-jackers.

As for him playing in a match against England, well he would be cup-tied of
course

[Marked Man]

[QUOTE=Roverstillidie]

would have been gas if keano aged 30 was handed one though that would be worth seeing....

QUOTE]

He'd a been too busy walking out on us to notice.

[Metrostars]

Regarding Matt Holland singing GSTG he is entitled to if he has and
English as well as Irish parent, or whatever, some people are of mixed
nationality, are they to be barred from playing International football.

Could we take a poll on this?
Should people of mixed nationality be barred from playing International football? That seems to be the view of some here.

I became a US citizen 5 years ago and I have no problem singing the Star Spankled Banner as well as Amhrán na bhFiann. My wife is an american plus my kids are American born, we go back to Ireland every year, they've got two passports too and therefore entitled to play for either country.
I think there should be a rule that by 21 you have to decide which country you want to play for if you havent been capped already. There should be none of these late bloomers who try to latch on to one country after failing with their native country.

[Dodge]

I thnk that rule should be 18. I have no problem with people with dual nationalities but if you're going to sing another anthem, the very least you can do is learn the other one. (Kilbane sings as gaelige)

As regards the plastics (and I use this term not for genuine 2g but for the cases we've already highlighted) always trying hard. Thats professional pride. They try just as hard playing for Charlton, Ipswich, Chelsea or whover else they're playing with. When talking about Ireland the use the term "we" like they do when talking a club side they've played with their career. Clinton Morrison kissing the FAI badge?

[Kevin77]

I don't see the problem. I was born in Clare and lived there til I was 9. Moved to Dublin, then moved to Australia when I was 11. Lived there til I was 24. Then moved back to Dublin. Now live in Australia again.

I have a predominantly Aussie accent, but I'm Irish. Simple as that. I'd play for Ireland, support Ireland. Doesn't mean that I don't want Australia to do well...in fact I'd love them to be in the next world cup.

People need to chill out.

[Junior]

thats not what anyone has said. dont try and put words in peoples mouths
i will repeat, the issue is not 2g (apologies PP, i was quoting someone else...) players being welcomed, its no g players who find a tenious link with ireland strictly to enhance their footballing careers, often after a 'come and get me' plea to the england manager at the time.

matt holland (and he isnt the worst) summed this attitude up when after declaring for ireland and taking an irish passport, publically sang the anthem of his previous nationality. not exactly inspiring towords his motives. how many of the 2g'rs on here sing that song when the issue arises? diito townsend as captain insisting that black armbands be worn for di. where was he when greysteel and a load of fans watching ireland were gunned down?

i understand that the concept of duel nationality or identity is a tricky one, especially in the northern context, but i find it very hard to believe matty was making a subtle political point. he sings his anthem when he hears it, and it unfortunatly isnt the one he chose to represent.

only a pure bigot wouldnt welcome the tradition of the diaspora playing for ireland over the years, but the likes of morrison abuse that linkage and all it stands for in order to get a move or a few more grand at negotiation time.

Agree with most of that. No question the mercenaries for want of a better word have made it more difficult for 2nd or 3rdG to be accepted by 1stG fans, media & fans of other countries particularly in the UK.

I would much rather a team of KK's & Breens but its a fine line and it wouldn't be long before the likes of morrison were regailing tales of his childhood back home with his grandmother 'before' he declared for Ireland

[Dodge]

Way to miss the point Kevin77...

[Kevin77]

Way to miss the point Kevin77...

Not sure I really made a point! Ha ha...I just read it back

I'm sick...stomach bug and probably delirious.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it takes all sorts. Who is more Irish? The person who is born in Mozambique but grows up in Dublin and has a thick Irish accent. Or the Irish born person that moved to Mozambique and has a thick Mozambique accent?

I don't know.

And what about those born in America or the US or Australia to Irish parents?

I don't know.

To me the most important thing is that you do your best and enjoy either following or playing for the team regardless of your birthplace/raised place/accent/any other credentials

[Dodge]

The point you missed was, as far as I cna see, no one has a problem with 2g people supporting or playing for Ireland. What some of us have a problem with is people playing for our country as a last resort in order to boost their own career.

[Kevin77]

The point you missed was, as far as I cna see, no one has a problem with 2g people supporting or playing for Ireland. What some of us have a problem with is people playing for our country as a last resort in order to boost their own career.

I suppose the only way we can ever be sure of that is if they come out and say it.

[lopez]

Interesting thread with some good obervations and points, spoilt by the inevitable ignorance of some (I hope) immature schoolkids. Someone's upset by Matt Holland once singing Ode to the German Lady. Well what about those pure Irish people that sing/sung it in the past? Perhaps leaving the economics, IT and Businesss Studies courses at the school and looking at the history of your own country and some of the people - born and bred within the 26C - who passed the the birth test. Wellington, Kitchener, Carson. And for those that are dismissing Protestants as somehow un-Irish, there's also William Joyce of Lord Haw-Haw fame. Any older Kilkenny fans can correct me, but didn't the fanzine 'Every Man's a Football Artist' carry an intriguing observation of the son of an Irish diplomat singing the same song as Holland during a British Lions tour circa 1989? For those that are clearly ignorant about the 'Brits' that were willing to sacrifice their liberty and lives for an independent Ireland, may avail of themselves the book 'Enchanted by dreams: The journal of a revolutionary' by Joe Good. Doubt it you'll find it on the Free State History Sylabus reading list though.

Then there is this propensity to see anyone with an Irish surnane as somehow ours. Wayne Rooney may have an Irish surname and look like something out of a Thomas Nast cartoon, but he's as Irish as Andy Townsend (one Irish grandparent I believe although with others from Liverpool the blood's bound to be richer with it). To be fair, I don't think there have been that many British born players with two Irish born parents that have played for England since Shay Brennan. Martin Keown (who's parents are from the North) and, erm, Kevin Gallen. Any more offers? If we are to believe that only the second best choose Ireland, then next to the Asian community, I can't see such a large community in Britain that has produced so few decent footballers.

As for Townsend, I couldn't agree more with Rovers. I never had much time for this tw*t cycling across Mallorca one minute to support England against us, while within a year was picking up caps with us. I also found his attitude in Iceland nothing short of disgracefull, especially after doing F*ck all for those killed in Loughinisland (not Greyskill BTW).

[as_i_say]

My cats name is mittens.

[Plastic Paddy]

My cat's name is Mittens.

Serves you right. You started this.

PP

[CollegeTillIDie]

Ok it's like this . How to qualify for irish citizenship....
Born anywhere on the Island of Ireland. Son or daughter of a parent born anywhere on the island of Ireland. Grandson or daughter of a grandparent born anywhere on the island of Ireland. All of these people have to have been born before the recent citizenship referendum too by the way

Which means George Best is entitled to a passport from the Republic of Ireland. Oh and by the way as recent displays will have proved being born on the Emerald Isle is no guarantee of either football ability of partriotism.

[Dodge]

There's way more ways to to get Irish citizenship. Doesn't really matter in this context though

[as_i_say]

Serves you right. You started this.

PP

g'wan outta that. people are talking about this cos its a valid topic. i was reacting to lopez's james joyce soliloquy up there and very nice it was too.

[Tenderloins]

The funny thng is that soon enough we'll have players born in Ireland opting to play for Poland,Romania Nigeria etc

[CraftyToePoke]

you have spectacularly missed the point here ctp.
it is not the function of the FAI to promote foreign born players careers (in fact they push kids into 'careers' in england rather than set up youth structures here to attempt to keep elite players in ireland long enough to get a fee for them). genuine diaspora playing for their exiled nation is one thing, and welcomed by yours truely, but the objection is to players soely 'becoming' irish to further their careers. the FAI should have no truck with that.

i include morrison (please play me sven), holland (singing gstq after taking an irish passport to play), townsend (black armbands for diana) and other non-entities like butler and goodman.

whether the plastics like it or not, players like morrison do alienate me somewhat from the national side. it is in no way shape or form an anti-english or burn the ports attitude, these guys are essentially parasitic and i would question whether they can be trusted when the chips are down.

ditto the brazilians playing for portugal, who have caused a split in the side.

i dont accept the 'any dcent player we can con fifa into letting us play' arguement for one second. i would rather be ordinary with pride

my point was not that the fai should do that RTID,it was if someone declares for us early in their career through a genuine wish of wanting to play for ireland then its a far better scenario than others declaring as a last resort or as a tactical career move,.......having done that,if that decision to play for us,and they are selected and do well, brings about further success in other areas of their career..then good luck to them.that was all.

as for the parisitic element,couldnt agree with you more,i believe their involvment devalues the honour also.id like to see our fai close off this avenue so lads cant be cajoled by agents or clubs to keep both options open for as long as possible.

dont get me wrong,all are welcome regardless of accent,birthplace etc, in my book,..as long as they are wanting an irish cap for the right reasons.

[razor]

I miss davros.