Irish Presidential Election 2025

[CraftyToePoke]

What a mess, the ballot papers are gone to the printers, so he'll be on the ballot regardless and we now have people asking if people still vote for him, are their second and third preferences still valid ? Or are they spoiled votes ? And if he were to ( unlikely ) win on second preferences or vote transfers, we'd have a constitutional conundrum. Surely the fix has to be to somehow, however inconvenient, reprint the paperwork here, but so far, computer says no.

To be honest, the idea that Gavin has stepped aside over this - a €3k matter from 15 years ago that to be honest the tenant can't have exhausted their options over either - is a triumph of muck-raking over real politics, which can only be damaging for the country.

I'd no intention of voting for him - but really the bigger focus where FF are involved should be the party's overall position as the party of the lecherous landlord and the obsession with property prices, despite the obvious detriment this has caused the next generation. But not this. Deal with the matter (with penalties for late payment if required), get a sense of perspective and move on

I am surprised at you on this, thought you'd be more law and order above all. In terms of options exhausted it seems like Gavin is the one who exhausted all his, avoiding the person and his debt to him, rather than vice versa, all the way & as far as he could push it & then bent the truth on national airwaves for a finale.

[pineapple stu]

I am surprised at you on this, thought you'd be more law and order above all.

Fair - but let's be honest, if this case went to court, it'd be thrown out immediately for being way beyond any statute of limitations. Gavin isn't required to have kept any documentation which could clear his name (accounting info has to be kept at least six full years plus the current one, unless there's an active legal case), and if he can't clear his name, then it's not a fair case.

That said, while the case against Gavin can't be proven in court, I do think it happened for the reasons you say. The "We all partied" tone of his denial is ******. The other option is that he genuinely didn't have a clue about the guy of course, and just confessed up rather than deny it and be shown to be wrong. Bit like an alco apologising for something they fear may have happened the other night, even though they've no recollection of it.

But equally I despise stories which have a clear one-sided bias, and this one does. This case seems to be because a rent Standing Order went through twice when it should have been cancelled. If I was the tenant, I'd have been straight into the bank the first instance it happened asking them to reverse the transaction. Like, was it cancelled or not? Then there's other options if Gavin didn't reply - the Residential Tenancies Board, the Small Claims Court (maybe the amount is too high though - or go after one month's payment at least), or there's the media. Like, if you're going to say "The Pres owes me money" as has happened now, why not - 16 years ago - say "The Dublin GAA manager owes me money?" Equally newsworthy.

So based on the facts as outlined so far, my view is if it wasn't worth resolving in the last 16 years, then you don't get to raise it now. And I don't think it's a matter that requires Gavin to stand down.

[Razors left peg]

Whats the back story to this? Has the tenant being sitting in the wings waiting for the day that Gavin ran for public office to bring this out? It is all a bit weird

[SkStu]

But equally I despise stories which have a clear one-sided bias, and this one does. This case seems to be because a rent Standing Order went through twice when it should have been cancelled. If I was the tenant, I'd have been straight into the bank the first instance it happened asking them to reverse the transaction. Like, was it cancelled or not?

Exactly the first question that came to my mind when the story broke...bank should be on the hook if they didnt follow the customers request. Gavin not making him whole is shady as fook but he could have poker faced it. Better PR firm and maybe he would have. Agree with Razor too... it is all a bit weird.

[CraftyToePoke]

Whats the back story to this? Has the tenant being sitting in the wings waiting for the day that Gavin ran for public office to bring this out? It is all a bit weird

He'd been walked on by Gavin & probably wrote it off grudgingly & then the guy who dumped all over him was suddenly very publicly vulnerable, probably didn't expect the opportunity to come with such high profile attached but he didn't Adam Idah the chance, he absolutely Haalanded the bejaysus out of it didn't he. Emphasis on grudgingly there obviously

Its not about the money, well it is, but with interest at this stage, a high rate too.

[pineapple stu]

Whats the back story to this? Has the tenant being sitting in the wings waiting for the day that Gavin ran for public office to bring this out? It is all a bit weird

Is the Dublin GAA manager not a public enough office though?

[CraftyToePoke]

Like, if you're going to say "The Pres owes me money" as has happened now, why not - 16 years ago - say "The Dublin GAA manager owes me money?" Equally newsworthy.

Newsworthy, yes. Not equally newsworthy IMO & nowhere near the same amount of damage infliction available. He wouldn't have lost the Dubs job over it, I would wager.

There is a pile on today, and interestingly some FFers piling on, on RTÉ Radio too. About the process, its limited scope, duration & consultation. About front benchers who'd never met Gavin being told they were doing promo shoots with him tomorrow. Its all coming out.

It also has just enough of that whiff of that old FF nepotism to put the wind up them properly. And Micheál so close to it does not help at all in that regard. He is a child of that era FF after all. He needed to be much more careful. I wonder how much fallout will various agendas try to see land on him too ?

We can argue all week here, the law, the expiration of certain rights over time, the opportunistic timing of the tennant, it all has merit.

None of it happens if Gavin had his house in order & he didn't & that's that. You owe, you should pay. You should see to it particularly, if you're a public figure that you don't leave people unmarked from corners like he did. That's on him & he knows that now.

[SkStu]

He'd been walked on by Gavin & probably wrote it off grudgingly & then the guy who dumped all over him was suddenly very publicly vulnerable, probably didn't expect the opportunity to come with such high profile attached but he didn't Adam Idah the chance, he absolutely Haalanded the bejaysus out of it didn't he. Emphasis on grudgingly there obviously

Its not about the money, well it is, but with interest at this stage, a high rate too.

while Gavin was playing the long ball, this lad was playing the long game.

[Razors left peg]

I dunno, reading between the lines this seems like it could be a bit of tip of the iceberg thing, did he step aside before the real sh1t comes out? I said earlier that its kinda nice that Ireland still has this bit of "morality" when it comes to the elections, but thinking about it more I cant see how this could be a big enough scandal in itself to rule him out of the race. Agree with Stu that any PR firm worth its salt could have just brushed this aside and moved on.

[pineapple stu]

Newsworthy, yes. Not equally newsworthy IMO & nowhere near the same amount of damage infliction available. He wouldn't have lost the Dubs job over it, I would wager.

Losing his job isn't the name of the game here though. Getting paid is the aim. It mightn't be equally newsworthy, but it would still be newsworthy enough I'd say.

And the tenant had plenty of other chances in the past 16 years to pursue a claim.

I completely agree none of this happens if Gavin has his house in order. I disagree that it's worth stepping down from the Presidency race over. And I don't think muck-raking from 16 years ago is really all that beneficial in the greater scheme of things.

[Nesta99]

I see this situation with Gavin a bit like the secretary of Ballymun FC over the 'grass'. Its a reflection of indifference to just responsibllity and decency. Im pretty sure that there are things Ive said on foot.ie over almost 20 years that could be trawlled through and something made of it, criticising GAA/Government or whatever, but even ignoring 3k that should have been returned to someone is not indicitive of good character just cause he was suffering financial hardship himself. Yup in politics theres much worse messing but its knowing about the potential banana skins, acknowledgeing with the campaign and having in place damage limitation. Id remember owing someone 3k and ignoring it even 16 years ago, Id say he did too but hoped, wrongly, it was forgotten or just done and dusted. Careless and you cant be.

I dont think this alone was the reason for withdrawing, maybe poor polling, additional details to the rent thing maybe. Heart not really in it. Someone in his ear wanting to embarress Martin and FF - Martin arch nemisis Bertie eg. I think it makes Connolly favourite with Humphries losing potential transfers. Connolly is not a diplomat as the president needs to be, she sees the role as a platform for her own poltics and whether one agrees or disagrees with her I dont think thats the role. Higgins only really 'used' the presidency in that last 6 months or so of his term, and that was on the exceptional situation in Gaza. Other than that he was more restrained in relation to what was likely what he wanted to say on many occasions.

[SkStu]

i used to say the same about Trump/Clinton but "this is the best that could be mustered up"? Instead of two, we somehow found three absolute goons.

[CraftyToePoke]

Better PR firm and maybe he would have.

Agree with Stu that any PR firm worth its salt could have just brushed this aside and moved on.

Equally any PR teams first question would be, is this a one off isolated situation we are handling here Jimmyboy or are there others ?
At which point MichealM goes awful quiet because of Jimmyboys facial expression.

Not that far fetched is it ?

DJ Carey & what have you.

[Razors left peg]

Equally any PR teams first question would be, is this a one off isolated situation we are handling here Jimmyboy or are there others ?
At which point MichealM goes awful quiet because if Jimmyboys facial expression.

Not that far fetched is it ?

DJ Carey & what have you.

Thats why I said that this has the smell of tip of the iceberg

[CraftyToePoke]

Thats why I said that this has the smell of tip of the iceberg

Does it smell any bit like pussy ?
Or victory ?
Describe it please

[SkStu]

Equally any PR teams first question would be, is this a one off isolated situation we are handling here Jimmyboy or are there others ?
At which point MichealM goes awful quiet because of Jimmyboys facial expression.

Not that far fetched is it ?

DJ Carey & what have you.

Agreed - but he also might equally have said "you know what, f*ck this sh*t, i just couldn't be arsed. Yizzer all d*ckheads. Gimme your lunch money, Martin, you pox. Peace out."

Does it smell any bit like pussy ?
Or victory ?
Describe it please

you know when you have an itchy bellybutton and theres a whack off your finger when you itch it. Like that.

[Razors left peg]

Does it smell any bit like pussy ?
Or victory ?
Describe it please

Im an Ireland and Man Utd fan, Ive forgotten what the smell of victory is. Im also married long enough to forget............

[CraftyToePoke]

Fair play lads.
Obviously, I couldn't ask Pineappler what either smelled like.
God love him.

[Eminence Grise]

Smacks to me of a man utterly unprepared for and unsuited to political life. Every minute move held up to scrutiny, and lambasted if it’s wrong: the drone footage was a ****-up, the army pictures an error of judgement… I blame the team around him for that. I’ve canvassed for TDS who became ministers and you never have the candidate in charge of those details: his FF team let him down badly in that respect. These things aren't PR firm territory, just basic - really basic - campaign team cop-on.

There was abuse as well: allegations that seemed a deliberate attempt to smear him must have been hard for his family. Nobody should have to put up with that, and a person’s family should be out of bounds, even as collateral damage. I wouldn't blame him if that was at the back of his mind.

The €3k+, though, that’s a different matter. It speaks to morality and the character of a person. I’m going to be circumspect here – Dahamsta doesn’t want the libel lawyers sniffing around – but if I kept €100 that didn’t belong to me, after the rightful owner made reasonable efforts to get it returned, I could have no complaints if that person and others who knew of my actions regarded me as dishonest at best, and a thief at worst.

When an election isn’t about policy or issues, inevitably it comes down to the personal, and that’s what makes this the most noxious election we have. It’s no coincidence that bar Cearbhaill O’Dalaigh, every president has been an Oireachtas member – they’re used to the game. Amateurs aren’t: ask Mary Davis, Sean Gallagher, Adi Roche, Joan Freeman… Jim Gavin. The smaller the prize, the dirtier the fight.

As an aside, Martin is copping the flak today. When the dust settles poeple might start asking why the Finance minister, with the biggest day in his calendar smack in the middle of the campaign, was director of elections. Chambers can hardly get off scott free.

[CraftyToePoke]

Losing his job isn't the name of the game here though. Getting paid is the aim.

I don't really think its either, TBH. He'll get his money & the story might be a payment source too. But revenge is the game here, by the timing of all this. Whether its his own initiative or he's a willing pawn in a dirty game, its about settling a score. If revenge is best served cold, this one came from the freezer.