Michael Noonan F Shamrock Rovers b.2008

[Razors left peg]

I knew nothing about his family stuff before Reading the above stories. Hopefully he's able to pull himself clear of that stuff, would make me think getting out of Dublin asap would be better for his career and life

[Eirambler]

It's frustrating how closely linked Irish football is to that world at times. Noonan's dad has been long involved in football in Dublin and Leinster. Keith Quinn's brother played in the Premier League and for Ireland at Euro 2016. The victim of the gun attack linked on the previous page is a relative of former Ireland underage keeper and long time League of Ireland player Dean Delany (not that he was anything other than a victim obviously). Anthony Stokes' family as well and obviously the previously reported links of Troy Parrott to crime families. Probably some more I'm forgetting as well. It's a bit depressing when you put it all together like that.

[EalingGreen]

With parents and grandparents like that, let's hope young Michael manages to break the mould. Again.

(I'll get my coat)

[tetsujin1979]

Can I ask everyone to pause the talk on his family? I know it's relevant, but we are talking about a 16 year old here, an actual child.
This isn't aimed at anyone, just some guidance.

[Razors left peg]

Having young lads like this in the league really give a buzz to the start of the season now doesnt it! I cant wait to see how Noonan, Melia and O'Sullivan get on this year. I hope this is the start of a new beginning for the League and the FAI market it properly, "See them before they become superstars" kind of thing.

[seanfhear]

It's frustrating how closely linked Irish football is to that world at times. Noonan's dad has been long involved in football in Dublin and Leinster. Keith Quinn's brother played in the Premier League and for Ireland at Euro 2016. The victim of the gun attack linked on the previous page is a relative of former Ireland underage keeper and long time League of Ireland player Dean Delany (not that he was anything other than a victim obviously). Anthony Stokes' family as well and obviously the previously reported links of Troy Parrott to crime families. Probably some more I'm forgetting as well. It's a bit depressing when you put it all together like that.

That kind of thing can happen when the privileged in society let crime run rampant. Of course the privileged people will make sure that they are well insulated themselves !

[Joxerbrowne]

It's frustrating how closely linked Irish football is to that world at times. Noonan's dad has been long involved in football in Dublin and Leinster. Keith Quinn's brother played in the Premier League and for Ireland at Euro 2016. The victim of the gun attack linked on the previous page is a relative of former Ireland underage keeper and long time League of Ireland player Dean Delany (not that he was anything other than a victim obviously). Anthony Stokes' family as well and obviously the previously reported links of Troy Parrott to crime families. Probably some more I'm forgetting as well. It's a bit depressing when you put it all together like that.

Troy Parrotts father was shot dead when Troy was a toddler.

Thankfully them days are gone and shootings like that are rare these days.

[Eirambler]

That kind of thing can happen when the privileged in society let crime run rampant. Of course the privileged people will make sure that they are well insulated themselves !

There has been plenty of stuff on the rugby side as well of course, more so in the areas of white collar crime and middle class privilege, but crime is crime. Brendan Mullen, Denis Coulson, Chris Henry, Eddie Halvey and Davy Tweed all come to mind there.

[seanfhear]

There has been plenty of stuff on the rugby side as well of course, more so in the areas of white collar crime and middle class privilege, but crime is crime. Brendan Mullen, Denis Coulson, Chris Henry, Eddie Halvey and Davy Tweed all come to mind there.

True enough ~ ~ But not too many, gang-land murders / shootings, there all the same !

[Eirambler]

Troy Parrotts father was shot dead when Troy was a toddler.

Thankfully them days are gone and shootings like that are rare these days.

Parrott's father was Byrne I think? Not sure if he was related to the Byrnes Troy has been reported as hanging out with when in Dublin. You never hear or see much written about that one.

[Joxerbrowne]

Parrott's father was Byrne I think? Not sure if he was related to the Byrnes Troy has been reported as hanging out with when in Dublin. You never hear or see much written about that one.

Yeah Aiden Byrne could very well be a relation of the Crumlin Byrnes, would make sense why they are pictured together fairly often alright.

[Acornvilla]

We dont have a big enough sample size yet to know which is the better route in the new Brexit era. None of the players that have left the LOI at 16 and gone to Italy have done anything of note yet. Razi, Zefi and Ferizaj were all in Shamrock Rovers 1st team squad before leaving I believe and havent had a sniff yet of 1st team football yet. I dont remember if Orazi played any 1st team for Rovers and he just made his debut in France last weekend. The big one is Ferguson who got around the rules, I dont know if anyone could argue that he would have been better suited staying with Bohs until he was 18.

Sam Curtis on the other hand is the most high profile failure of the Brexit rules so far I think. It'll be interesting to watch over the next few years whether Melia, Noonan and O'Sullivan were right to stay

St. Johnston have won every match since he signed. He isn't 20 until December fwiw, not sure Peterborough were the right club at the right time given their continued struggles. Give the kid a chance

[Olé Olé]

It's been a good couple of weeks for the FAI on the player development front. I suppose they needed something.

It is great to see the quality of Melia and Noonan emerging. The quality of these lads is such that the very Premiership sides will wait until they're 18 for them to join.

The Curtis situation is a funny one. He played years above and looked comfortable for 21s and LOI from a young age which is impressive.

Is it a different thing to lead the line and excel in senior European competition like Melia and Noonan have done now? It probably is.

Curtis might hopefully go on to have a good career after a blip. It's so hard to draw any conclusions from his situation because he has road to go. This isn't a perfect science either. In his own position, we have had Lee O'Connor join United at 16 and not succeed as a senior international for us and Seamus Coleman join Everton at 20.

What's for sure is that improving the standards through investment and everything else won't do their chances any harm!

[Eirambler]

The issue with Curtis was always potentially going to be the same as with Lee O'Connor. Good footballer, but doesn't seem to have a natural position that he fits at a high level. Not really built to be either a centre back or a full back at a high level, but a good enough footballer to get away with it in the LoI, and possibly the SPL too.

I think he has a ceiling as a right back though, not sure that you can coach what he's missing. Having said that it was a surprise that he struggled as much as he did in League 1 and is definitely one in the negative column for players staying home until 18.

[Olé Olé]

The issue with Curtis was always potentially going to be the same as with Lee O'Connor. Good footballer, but doesn't seem to have a natural position that he fits at a high level. Not really built to be either a centre back or a full back at a high level, but a good enough footballer to get away with it in the LoI, and possibly the SPL too.

I think he has a ceiling as a right back though, not sure that you can coach what he's missing. Having said that it was a surprise that he struggled as much as he did in League 1 and is definitely one in the negative column for players staying home until 18.

But your last sentence doesn't stack up with the rest of the post.

Based on what you said up to the last sentence, it wouldn't have made a difference had he left at 16 or stayed until 18. Your view is that he has a ceiling. Is that not the case?

[Eirambler]

I think his ceiling is Championship, but it's going to take him time to get there, potentially longer than it might if he had been able to go over a bit sooner. He doesn't look like a potential Premier League footballer to me, and that would have been the case regardless of when he left Ireland. But it was disappointing to see him going from being a standout in the domestic league to struggling badly in a mid table League 1 side, that is something that happened and there's no getting away from it. He was found out in League 1, in terms of his technical and tactical ability as much as anything. That's a concern because, while physical limitations can't be fixed, a lot of what were the issues on League 1 can be coached and they haven't been.

I think he's doing OK now in Perth but (and I say this with a fair degree of local knowledge) the bottom of the SPL is weak - not much of a step up, if any, on the League of Ireland Premier Division. So hopefully this loan will be beneficial for him but I'm not certain it will be. At least getting to play the two big Scottish sides should help him. But at some point he could have done with a year or two in a top academy to round out his game, he's too old now for that so will have to try and learn on the job.

[Olé Olé]

I think his ceiling is Championship, but it's going to take him time to get there, potentially longer than it might if he had been able to go over a bit sooner. He doesn't look like a potential Premier League footballer to me, and that would have been the case regardless of when he left Ireland. But it was disappointing to see him going from being a standout in the domestic league to struggling badly in a mid table League 1 side, that is something that happened and there's no getting away from it. He was found out in League 1, in terms of his technical and tactical ability as much as anything. That's a concern because, while physical limitations can't be fixed, a lot of what were the issues on League 1 can be coached and they haven't been.

I think he's doing OK now in Perth but (and I say this with a fair degree of local knowledge) the bottom of the SPL is weak - not much of a step up, if any, on the League of Ireland Premier Division. So hopefully this loan will be beneficial for him but I'm not certain it will be. At least getting to play the two big Scottish sides should help him. But at some point he could have done with a year or two in a top academy to round out his game, he's too old now for that so will have to try and learn on the job.

Ok, so are you saying that there is no hard and fast rule as to when a player should go over. It depends on each individual case. And in the case of Curtis, you reckon he should have gone over sooner. Is that right?

I'm looking at Jake O'Brien here starting for Everton. Went over to Crystal Palace when he was almost 20.

[Eirambler]

I think, at a very minimum, there's a broad correlation between when players go over and when they break through. I'm struggling to think of many recent cases of players who went over and went straight into the first team of a club in the top 2 divisions in England and stayed the course from there. Nearly everyone seems to need a period to develop first, after they go over, so in a lot of cases the sooner they go over and start that process the better.

If you look through the players who have played more than token amounts of domestic football and have gone on to play for the national team, they have been later developers for the most part. Jake O'Brien was definitely a late developer - not only did he only go over at 20, but he wasn't playing a huge amount of first team football in Ireland either. He looks the business now, but he's the same age as Nathan Collins and more than 20 international caps behind him.

I agree there's no one way that's right for everyone. For instance you might get a kid where it's just clear that he's not ready to leave home at 16, and that has to be factored in too.

But someone like Curtis, who was an earlier developer in the context of Irish football, could have done with an earlier move I think. Because he's now looking like a later developer in the context of British football, given how far off it he looked in League 1, so something's gone wrong there I feel.

It's just a shame the option isn't there any more. It will be a couple of years before we know for certain whether the continental route is definitely better. A few teenagers sniffing around first team action over there suggests it might be, but it's still too small a sample size to know for sure.

[John83]

It doesn't really matter whether it's better or worse for them to go over at 18 rather than before. There's no choice for most now, short of our league some day getting scouted by contintental academies as aggressively as England used to, so we have to make the best of it.

That means maximizing players' development in Ireland in their teens. With the best will in the world, LoI clubs will never match a Premiership academy - if they did for a minute, their staff would be poached and they'd be back to square 1 anyway - but we can't go wrong investing in facilities, training coaches, improving standards in the league, and incentives/information around how to best to employ teenaged players in senior football so as to aid their development and hence long term transfer value rather than necessarily maximising their impact for the first team, which is not quite the same thing.

[Eirambler]

I don't agree with that - there's plenty of opportunities for players to move to the continent before 18 and many have done so. There's no point pretending that option doesn't exist just because there are people that would like to keep everyone here until 18. If the likes of Melia and Noonan come in short of expectations, in addition to Sam Curtis, the next generation will be leaving en masse at 16 once again.