20 Teams, 2 Divisions, 1 National League

[culloty82]

Except Nigel is saying that because the likes of Parkvilla may not have the wherewithal themselves to step up to the third tier, that's precisely why the Meath DL might be looking to follow the Kerry and Mayo example, though as the FAI have clarified, it would have to be a legally distinct entity from the league itself.

[legendz]

Yeah, that's it. A legally distinct entity. They will have to form a club like Mayo FC. It is the least commitment that should be required in fairness.
It'll be interesting to see the mix of clubs that do come forward. The Kerry FC blueprint that Mayo FC are following is not for everyone. Might Athlone Town have an east Westmeath rival who might want to join? Finn Harps a rival from nearby Letterkenny. Some areas suit getting behind one team while others might more suit a local rivalry.

[Martinho II]

Considering East Westmeath is mentioned ere wonder would Mullingar Town make an application considering the population size of Mullingar and the easy access for travel time? They did apply over 20 yrs ago to get into LOI

[cláirseach]

Ballymun was another club that I heard could be interested

There was a rumour of them having an arrangement with a nearby institution but I had presumed that was rubbish, very interesting / odd if not.

If approaching this from a spectator pov, as most here will, it is worth noting how awkwardly located many of the dublin area sides mentioned are.

[Glen Of Aherlow]

Considering East Westmeath is mentioned ere wonder would Mullingar Town make an application considering the population size of Mullingar and the easy access for travel time? They did apply over 20 yrs ago to get into LOI

Mullingar Athletic would be in a far better place to apply these days in a lot of ways , however their ground is a few miles outside town

[brendy_éire]

There isn't really a Fanad village. I would also wager they have zero interest in the new third tier.

Fanad were in the A Championship a good few years ago, mind. Also entered the League Cup at time.
Point taken on the lack of population.

You would imagine Cockhill could be tempted to apply. Easily the best team in Donegal, with a half decent soccer-orientated population to draw from. They'd have access to Maginn Park too, if needs be.

Will there be any sort of ground requirement for the third tier?

[Elfman]

I think people are underestimating this. I wouldn't be surprised if there's more than 20 applications and a few teams have to be turned away. The north/south divide makes it a hell of a lot more appealing to prospective sides. There'll be no more than 2 or 3 hours travel for the majority of sides for away games.

There's a lot of clubs in the country who'll fancy a crack at this without the full commmitment of joining the LOI senior ranks in an already established First Division.

The key to this will be extra detail provided to any clubs from the FAI.

What might be interesting to watch, would be the potential for representative sides from junior league areas without a club, and whether the FAI might look to encourage such an 'entity' to join, as opposed to a club.

Interesting take on this Nigel. I was pessimistic myself and could only come up with 11 non-LOI B teams who would have an interest. Which counties are the teams you were thinking about drawn from?

[nigel-harps1954]

Interesting take on this Nigel. I was pessimistic myself and could only come up with 11 non-LOI B teams who would have an interest. Which counties are the teams you were thinking about drawn from?

I'm not really making any assumptions as such, just think there could be a few left field applications for this, and potentially a few clubs or league entities coming together. Lot will depend on how the FAI approach it themselves, or what information they'll give out to any interested parties.

[Nesta99]

About 15 years ago Drogheda Town had ambitions for LoI, they (quite arrogantly and naively I thought) believed they would have done a better job than United at a time when DUFC were going to the wall after the Cup and League wins. It'd be interesting if they still felt the same way now. Timing will be significant for some, the mess that happened in Galway football was basically that junior blazers wanted to put the senior club back in ther box and we know how that went in the end. I get the impression that there is a lot less Junior clubs wanting to show how its done, that if they step up it is with ambition rather than with disdain and in the belief that what senior clubs do was easy. I just cannot see where 20 clubs will come from. There are that number capable and with potential to stay at that grade if not significantly make iroads to to top tables of the game.

Will there be promotion to and relegation from this national league, opening almost the entire game in to the system. There will inevitably be 'break away' leagues that will close off and refuse to align their season but the simple stick and carrot there is that they would lose accreditation.membeship and voting rights with the FAI and damage grant and funding access. Without B teams from at least the premier division I cant see the numbers interested beaing made somehow, if 1st Division clubs want B teams involved then it becomes messy taking up too many slots. I can see why there'd be interest from underage clubs in the LoI system having their own pathway to the senior game but link ups with existing senior clubs still has less risk imo but I will admit bias here where Id hope for say CM, Dundalk Schoolboys, some Meath and North Dublin underge setups to co-op with Dundalk, wont be the cream of underage clubs but sometimes the bigger the schoolboy clubs the more likely kids fall through the cracks.

Mullingar, Meath (preferably 2 sides between say Navan and Trim rather than a catch all catch none county effort), Mayo, CK, Ballymun, maybe a Donegal side, looking to some old returns like Monaghan, Kildare/Newbridge, top junior clubs that regularly qualify for the FAI Cup, and other Higher Education side or 2 UCC/UL, Tech Uni that have significant sports related courses and the ability to run proper scholarships, id expect an opportunistic franchise type to have a go - Irish Sea out of Santry type effort. Ground requirements and timescale to develop things will be key but another carrot if there is addtional access to grants involved. I could see an Ardee Celtic have a go locally. Maybe a 10 team effort with National League 2 North/South would be easier even?

[Buckett]

So, 20 sounds like too many teams to attract but a ten team national league with a regional national league two below it, that's 30 teams altogether, would work?

BTW, Galway Utd's problems had nothing to do with Mervue or Salthill. Both those clubs will probably apply to the National League and best of luck to them.

[legendz]

So, 20 sounds like too many teams to attract but a ten team national league with a regional national league two below it, that's 30 teams altogether, would work?

BTW, Galway Utd's problems had nothing to do with Mervue or Salthill. Both those clubs will probably apply to the National League and best of luck to them.

I think around 10 teams in a nationwide National League is more achievable. The next step after that should be regional leagues that district leagues would offer promotion to.

[nigel-harps1954]

Cockhill Celtic manager Gavin Cullen confirmed to Highland Radio they'll be putting in an application.

Letterkenny Rovers are definitely putting in an application too. So that's two more Donegal teams at least.

[EatYerGreens]

Ballymun was another club that I heard could be interested

They broadcasted to the world about 2yrs ago that they were improving their facilities to take the step up to senior football in the following years.

[legendz]

Current strong possibilities:
1. Shamrock Rovers B
2. CK United
3. Klub Kildare
4. Mayo FC
5. Cockhill Celtic
6. Letterkenny Rovers

Only 14 more to go.

[EatYerGreens]

Cockhill Celtic manager Gavin Cullen confirmed to Highland Radio they'll be putting in an application.

Letterkenny Rovers are definitely putting in an application too. So that's two more Donegal teams at least.

That seems crazy to be honest.

The 2022 census had almost 7,000 people living in Buncrana - making it bigger than Ballybofey-Stranorlar (5,500), but not vastly so.

The name 'Cockhill Celtic' wouldn't be great longer-term if they did get into the new structure. You'd think they'd need to adopt less of a parochial title to stand a chance of prospering longer term.

Chances are the FAI will be a bit desperate to let anyone in with a vaguely decent proposal, just to make up the numbers. The North-West could be the new Dublin if you have Letterkenny, Cockhill, Finn Harps and Derry City all in the LOI structure at the same time

[cláirseach]

Some of this discussion risks flattening local sporting tapestries and reducing assessments of the health of the sport in the relevant area to demographic charts from the corner of wikipedia pages. I think an Inishowen entry, whether it is Cockhill (the premier team there for quite some time) or a team entered by the Inishowen League (still a possibility, though I would wager much less likely) is a completely sensible move for that level. Football is by some distance the most popular sport in the area and there is plenty of evidence to support the idea the player base in the broader region and sufficient local interest to sustain a competitive third tier team. There isn't even a need for the abstract task of imagining the possible strands that could come together to make a decent side, the actually exisiting Cockhill teams of the past decade have been very strong as it is (albeit with a small hit since the collapse of the USL and the gradual increase in recruitment from Irish League clubs).

FWIW that list at the end is still one short of what the poor aul A Championship had (Inishowen for Cockhill, and add Fanad)!

[EatYerGreens]

Some of this discussion risks flattening local sporting tapestries and reducing assessments of the health of the sport in the relevant area to demographic charts from the corner of wikipedia pages. I think an Inishowen entry, whether it is Cockhill (the premier team there for quite some time) or a team entered by the Inishowen League (still a possibility, though I would wager much less likely) is a completely sensible move for that level. Football is by some distance the most popular sport in the area and there is plenty of evidence to support the idea the player base in the broader region and sufficient local interest to sustain a competitive third tier team. There isn't even a need for the abstract task of imagining the possible strands that could come together to make a decent side, the actually exisiting Cockhill teams of the past decade have been very strong as it is (albeit with a small hit since the collapse of the USL and the gradual increase in recruitment from Irish League clubs).

FWIW that list at the end is still one short of what the poor aul A Championship had (Inishowen for Cockhill, and add Fanad)!

The reason why demographics matter in football is because it's largely a professional sport. And professional sport requires money (and increasingly so over time). So if a club doesn't have a decent catchment area to tap into, its financial prospects - and thereby its chances of success or even survival at that level - are limited.

Obviously the new 3rd tier won't be professional. And it will doubtless be able to carry a few clubs from less-populated places. But also no doubt money will creep more and more into it over time and corrupt the whole thing, the way it does with football everywhere. People will get overly ambitious; wealthy sponsors will get carried away etc etc. When in reality all football teams tend to find their level longer-term, and one which usually reflects their population/catchment area to a large degree. There's a reason why Dublin clubs have usually dominated the LOI and Belfast clubs the IL.

Also - if part of the rationale for the 3rd tier is for it to be a stepping stone up to the senior game, then clubs from small places will obviously struggle if and when they do get promoted. That's the problem in football - when merit on the pitch crashes into the hard reality of financial viability off of it.

Is there not decent support for Derry City in Inishowen already?

[Nesta99]

So, 20 sounds like too many teams to attract but a ten team national league with a regional national league two below it, that's 30 teams altogether, would work?

BTW, Galway Utd's problems had nothing to do with Mervue or Salthill. Both those clubs will probably apply to the National League and best of luck to them.

10 teams interested for a national league 1.with legit aspirations for promotion. A lower level, less requirements NL2 N/S, less ambitious and possibility of LoI B sides if needed. where there is less risk to being involved and is properly opened to the rest of the system. I know the ins and outs of what happened in Galway so I was being general and brief.

[MoydowMonty]

Doesn't Tullamore Town exist too or am I making that up? That would be an Offaly club sorted.

I do wonder how relegation would work. Would it just be 10th place in FD that goes down automatically, would they go into a playoff with the national league winner? Trying to remember how the A-Championship did it, think it was 1st place there VS 10th place FD in a play-off.

[legendz]

If Mayo can get behind one team, and it seems similar to Kerry that they can, professional football in the long term would seem more attainable for Mayo FC than two or three competing clubs.
Again, there is no one size that fits all. An Athlone - Mullingar rivalry might be best for the Midlands.