20 Teams, 2 Divisions, 1 National League

**legendz** · 11/02/2025, 6:31 AM

Originally Posted by nr637

I think the Kerry FC project is the way forward for most teams.
I believe the new Mayo FC model is another interesting project.

Yes and no. When there was a vacant spot in the First Division, Kerry were next in line. A Third Tier should be a more appropriate level for any progressive club building through the academy leagues.
The one club model seems to suit Kerry and Mayo. Both have history in representative football. Other areas will suit having at least two rival clubs. There is no one size fits all.

**pineapple stu** · 11/02/2025, 7:01 AM

Originally Posted by Another Bohemia

Why would a new team immediately jump into the first division (2nd tier) if a 2nd division(third tier) exists? Would they not simply go into the 2nd division straight away where they can follow the Kerry model with zero risk of relegation. Admittedly I may be missing something from another post on this thread but to me if you join the league of Ireland you join at the lowest rung not half way up the ladder, or step stool as the case may be

Well my point was more that if they get to the First Division following Kerry's example, then they're going straight back down

And a flip side of that of course may well be that they wouldn't go up in the first place, which again isn't a ringing endorsement for most clubs

**pineapple stu** · 11/02/2025, 7:04 AM

Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

if we'd had a 3rd tier just a couple of season's ago Athlone Town - the country's oldest club - would've gone down.

They would - and so what? Why does it matter how old they are if they're a basket case club? And what benefit is it to other First Division clubs having to play a basket case club? (Note - I don't think Kerry are a basket case club. Though clubs that continually hover at the bottom of the division don't really add much in terms of competition/strength)

**Shearer** · 11/02/2025, 7:05 AM

Originally Posted by Jamesie

Can't believe the Kerry negativity....they've been getting better all the time over 2 short years.No old LOI warhorses shipped in to ease the landing just local and other new talent. At their best they play really slick football. And solid fan base already...

Football was played in Kerry before early 2023. The "softly, softly" treatment that they receive is a bit silly.

Their first year they signed plenty of players including old LOI Warhorses, it's just Billy Dennehy couldn't pick his nose not to mind a team.

Last year they had a decent budget that was better than some of the teams around them, they had a player's house(s?) and all. They still came bottom. That's deserving of criticism regardless of the club's age.

They are a good addition to the league and will improve, and hopefully their ground does at some stage too, but they seem to be immune to criticism. Meanwhile if the likes of Longford and Treaty (who didn't have any real time to prepare for their first season) have one bad week people are putting in an order for a headstone.

**Another Bohemia** · 11/02/2025, 7:20 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Well my point was more that if they get to the First Division following Kerry's example, then they're going straight back down

And a flip side of that of course may well be that they wouldn't go up in the first place, which again isn't a ringing endorsement for most clubs

I think I'm just failing to see your point here. Why is it a bad thing if these clubs take time to get promoted? Or get promoted and then relegated? It's entirely possible that happens to whoever wins the first division this year? It's a possibility for any club. Will it impact attendances, probably, but if the squad is built from local players from the academy & surrounding junior clubs plenty would still support them because they know John or knew his father. It's up to the clubs to build that connection to weather any potential storms.

**pineapple stu** · 11/02/2025, 8:07 AM

It's not a bad thing if they take time to get promoted. In fact, I think one of the problems Kerry have is that they were promoted too quickly. They've lost a bit of momentum from being bottom of the First Division two years in a row now.

But the original point was that Kerry in particular were a model for most new clubs to follow, and I don't agree with that. There's nothing particularly unusual about them in the pantheon of new clubs the LoI has seen down the years.

**Another Bohemia** · 11/02/2025, 8:42 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

It's not a bad thing if they take time to get promoted. In fact, I think one of the problems Kerry have is that they were promoted too quickly. They've lost a bit of momentum from being bottom of the First Division two years in a row now.

But the original point was that Kerry in particular were a model for most new clubs to follow, and I don't agree with that. There's nothing particularly unusual about them in the pantheon of new clubs the LoI has seen down the years.

I see now. Thanks for the clarification. I suppose I'm viewing Kerry from the point of view of not over extending themselves like Sporting Fingal did. Could they be doing better? 100%. But getting the right people (manager, director of football if that's something they feel they need, commercial people, funding and probably plenty of things I'm missing) in place is easier said than done. I'd much prefer clubs to come in and try to figure it out slowly than them speed running into oblivion.

**culloty82** · 11/02/2025, 9:24 AM

Certainly, given last year was all about catching up with the bottom of the division (and the second half of the season was a wasted opportunity in that regard in terms of not adequately replacing some key departures), anything other than at least a ninth-placed finish this season will be seen very much as an underachievement, given the new investment in the club. How much further than that we should be progressing, I'll leave to the rest of the division to analyse.

**legendz** · 11/02/2025, 9:56 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

But the original point was that Kerry in particular were a model for most new clubs to follow, and I don't agree with that. There's nothing particularly unusual about them in the pantheon of new clubs the LoI has seen down the years.

Firstly I agree clubs should be earning promotion to the First Division. Kerry can't do anything about that.
I would say Kerry are different in that they put in the hard yards with the academy leagues and were next in line when a spot was vacant.
Putting in the hard yards at academy level is a good model for potential clubs. Clubs entering at an appropriate level is for the FAI to sort out.
There wasn't a lot between Longford and Kerry last year. Kerry made the Munster Senior Cup final and too Bohemians to penalties. There are positives. Kerry haven't come into the league as if they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and Kerry's respect for the league and other clubs seems positive.

**nr637** · 11/02/2025, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by legendz

Firstly I agree clubs should be earning promotion to the First Division. Kerry can't do anything about that.
I would say Kerry are different in that they put in the hard yards with the academy leagues and were next in line when a spot was vacant.
Putting in the hard yards at academy level is a good model for potential clubs. Clubs entering at an appropriate level is for the FAI to sort out.
There wasn't a lot between Longford and Kerry last year. Kerry made the Munster Senior Cup final and too Bohemians to penalties. There are positives. Kerry haven't come into the league as if they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and Kerry's respect for the league and other clubs seems positive.

Great Post!

**EatYerGreens** · 11/02/2025, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

They would - and so what? Why does it matter how old they are if they're a basket case club? And what benefit is it to other First Division clubs having to play a basket case club? (Note - I don't think Kerry are a basket case club. Though clubs that continually hover at the bottom of the division don't really add much in terms of competition/strength)

But you're just reinforcing my point here. You singled out Kerry as a flawed model which would only result in failure/relegation. So I responded by pointing out that the 'been aound for years as a proper club' model is just as likely to produce a bottom-of-table team as the new entry system is. Which you seem to agree with me on. Being a longstanding established club is no guarantee of survival in our senior game/top 2 tiers either.

**nr637** · 12/02/2025, 9:34 AM

Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

But you're just reinforcing my point here. You singled out Kerry as a flawed model which would only result in failure/relegation. So I responded by pointing out that the 'been aound for years as a proper club' model is just as likely to produce a bottom-of-table team as the new entry system is. Which you seem to agree with me on. Being a longstanding established club is no guarantee of survival in our senior game/top 2 tiers either.

Currently that flawed model could be pointed at Dundalk currently and Cork City in recent times as both clubs were challenging each other at the top during the mid 2000's period!

**pineapple stu** · 12/02/2025, 9:37 AM

Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

You singled out Kerry as a flawed model which would only result in failure/relegation.

No I didn't. I disagreed with the comment "I think the Kerry FC project is the way forward for most teams". Big difference.

I disagreed with the comment by noting that they're bottom of the First two years in a row, have seen their crowds halve in that time, and are really following similar lines trodden by the likes of Kildare, Cabo and others.

But that's not the same as singling them out as a "flawed model which would only result in failure/relegation". I never said that.

**nr637** · 12/02/2025, 9:59 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

No I didn't. I disagreed with the comment "I think the Kerry FC project is the way forward for most teams". Big difference.

I disagreed with the comment by noting that they're bottom of the First two years in a row, have seen their crowds halve in that time, and are really following similar lines trodden by the likes of Kildare, Cabo and others.

But that's not the same as singling them out as a "flawed model which would only result in failure/relegation". I never said that.

I agree, I believe the Kerry FC model is all about the infrastructure of the club which is based on the development of players. Joining the League has only created a new level for players to reach.

**legendz** · 13/02/2025, 2:43 AM

The likes of Mayo, CK United and Kildare should be able to compete at a level where players who've graduated from the academy leagues can still compete within some level of LoI pathway.
It seems like a weak foundation for the mooted Third Tier to be relying on clubs who have not previously committed to the academy leagues.

**Kiki Balboa** · 13/02/2025, 9:11 AM

I think the problem with the invitation set-up we currently have is best shown in a possible situation in Kildare, where if you can only have one from the area, which one do you choose? You have:

Maynooth Uni Town, that has been successful enough intermediate team that is joined up with the university for scholarships, and a big club membership with underage playing in the DDSL, but no facilities, and is closer to Dublin than to the rest of the county.

Klub Kildare, with the underage LOI teams based in Naas, but no history of mens football and dont seem to have much facilities, and little traction locally.

Newbridge Town, which ran an LOI team (Kildare County) and have an LOI stadium, but dont seem to have the benefits of the other two.

**EatYerGreens** · 13/02/2025, 8:08 PM

Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa

I think the problem with the invitation set-up we currently have is best shown in a possible situation in Kildare, where if you can only have one from the area, which one do you choose? You have:

Maynooth Uni Town, that has been successful enough intermediate team that is joined up with the university for scholarships, and a big club membership with underage playing in the DDSL, but no facilities, and is closer to Dublin than to the rest of the county.

Klub Kildare, with the underage LOI teams based in Naas, but no history of mens football and dont seem to have much facilities, and little traction locally.

Newbridge Town, which ran an LOI team (Kildare County) and have an LOI stadium, but dont seem to have the benefits of the other two.

Simple. The FAI approach would have been to pick the club who's Chairman had the biggest dent on his chin from John Delaney's testicles.

**legendz** · 14/02/2025, 1:41 AM

The suggested National League sounds more like a potential Fourth Tier! Seems a backward step to invite clubs who have not built their academy structures. Maybe that will be part of the licencing for promotion to the First Division.
Progressive first teams with academy structures and progressive second teams e.g. Shamrock Rovers could potentially suit a Second Division.

**Kiki Balboa** · 17/02/2025, 9:40 AM

Is there any hunger for CK United to split?

Seems like such a weird marriage for an outsider. Both Carlow and Kilkenny are bigger towns than Sligo, different counties and not that close to each other. Both towns have an ex LOI team (Kilkenny City and FC Carlow) too.

**nigel-harps1954** · 17/02/2025, 9:46 AM

Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa

Is there any hunger for CK United to split?

Seems like such a weird marriage for an outsider. Both Carlow and Kilkenny are bigger towns than Sligo, different counties and not that close to each other. Both towns have an ex LOI team (Kilkenny City and FC Carlow) too.

And most strange that they're not even going to be based in either of the large towns mentioned. They're going to be based in Tullow, which is smaller than Ballybofey, and is nearly 50km from Kilkenny.

The whole project is odd as f*ck really.