Mick Mc Carthy ... Legend .

[zinedineontour]

zinedine only started the thread to saw how sound mick was when he met him and ye are all ripping his managerial career apart

true .. didnt realise it was gonna get into a mad debate on micks ability. Just wanted to say how sound the man was ...

[gustavo]

is this thread titled "the deconstruction of mick mccarthys managerial career" !

[NeilMcD]

Well I would think we are better chatting about someones managerial credentials etc rather than their personality both good and bad. To me someones personality is irrelevant as its their abilty that counts. If Adolf Hitler was Irish and could score goals I would have him up front for us at the moment. Rather than criticise people for examining Mc Carthys credentials, (I would have thought that this is the sort of thing the forum is set up for i.e. debate on players and managers ability both past and present, rather than how sound somone is, or what a ******** another person is.

[youngirish]

If we are only going to talk about personality he always came across to me as being a bit of a w**ker anyway. He thought he could do what he wanted when managing Ireland and didn't have to answer to anyone if things went wrong. Yeah I wish I could get a high paid job like that where I didn't have to explain my actions to anyone including the people who paid me (us the fans). I don't blame him for the Saipan incident though.

Maybe you just caught him on a good day ZinedineonTour. He was always a moody f**ker.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not sitting on the fence but there were substantial entries in both the credit & debit columns for Mick. I think we can all agree on that, no?

I think many people forget the fact that he left his father on his deathbed to take Ireland to Cyprus in March 2001. I think that says a lot about his character & commitment & maybe Roy Keane and others should have been reminded of that a year later.

As an aside, I actually enjoyed Mick's first couple of years in charge, despite our fall in status. The introduction of new faces in friendlies (many of whom were rubbish!) & the blooding of players like Dunne in the US Cup etc. A lot of Mick's friendly selections in the early years resembled "Development Squads", something I'd like to see more of under Kerr. It was ironic that subsequent conservatism, almost cronyism, contributed his downfall.

When we beat Finland 3-0 away in August 2002 I really thought we were on the verge of big things. I still wonder what would have happened if we'd gone 1-0 up in Russia instead of hitting the bar, or if Duff hadn't got injured early in that game.

[zinedineontour]

Well I would think we are better chatting about someones managerial credentials etc rather than their personality both good and bad. To me someones personality is irrelevant as its their abilty that counts. If Adolf Hitler was Irish and could score goals I would have him up front for us at the moment. Rather than criticise people for examining Mc Carthys credentials, (I would have thought that this is the sort of thing the forum is set up for i.e. debate on players and managers ability both past and present, rather than how sound somone is, or what a ******** another person is.

only came on to see what a sound bloke the fella was and got slaughtered with how he is such a poor manager even though he did take us to the second round of the world cup after inheriting an aging squad and turning things around .. Also good to see us comfortably getting our first win of the season yday ... elliott and breen were very good yday as well ..

[gustavo]

yeah Neil but in the context of how the thread was intended this critisism is unneccesary

[paul_oshea]

2 - 0 is a comprehensive win, who are sunderlands next opponents? if they could get another win, things could change for them...

[zinedineontour]

2 - 0 is a comprehensive win, who are sunderlands next opponents? if they could get another win, things could change for them...

west ham on sat night pay per view ... hopefully if we get another win will move us up the table ... good to get the monkey off our back with the long run of no wins ...

[paul_oshea]

ya true, mccarthy looked delighted as well, im happy for him and sunderland and you too zinedine! west ham doing well themselves though, a draw would be a good result for sunderland.

[zinedineontour]

ya true, mccarthy looked delighted as well, im happy for him and sunderland and you too zinedine! west ham doing well themselves though, a draw would be a good result for sunderland.

true a draw would not be too bad for us but realistically if we are gonna stay up we need to be winning games against the likes of west ham ...

[NeilMcD]

only came on to see what a sound bloke the fella was and got slaughtered with how he is such a poor manager even though he did take us to the second round of the world cup after inheriting an aging squad and turning things around .. Also good to see us comfortably getting our first win of the season yday ... elliott and breen were very good yday as well ..

Well its about balance, I saw your post and I think was the first to post up anything that could be perceived as a negative towards McCarthy. If you wanted to post a thread that was only a love in for Mc Carthy this is not the forum for that. Surely if you post something up there about a controversial figure in Irish Football history you are going to get positive and negative comments towards their managerial abilities. If I posted a thread saying I met Roy Keane the other day and said he was sound and a gentleman, i am ure there would be lots of people saying far worse things about Keane than has been said about Mc Carthy. I think it shoudl be welcomed that the views expressed here have been largely to do with Mc Carthys ability rather than his personality as to me his personality does not count.

[paul_oshea]

neil the thing is , he stated this without an exclamatino mark or without a question mark, the fact that he hadnt a question mark direcly infers ( to me at least ) that he wasn't asking for an opinion, rather a statement, hence there was no need for you to give your opinion on whether or not he was a legend, however the fact that he left out an exclamation mark also takes away the guarantee it was a statement, but in this case i think he was just making a statement, hence no need for you to give your two pence on whether or not you thought/think he was/is a legend.

[zinedineontour]

neil the thing is , he stated this without an exclamatino mark or without a question mark, the fact that he hadnt a question mark direcly infers ( to me at least ) that he wasn't asking for an opinion, rather a statement, hence there was no need for you to give your opinion on whether or not he was a legend, however the fact that he left out an exclamation mark also takes away the guarantee it was a statement, but in this case i think he was just making a statement, hence no need for you to give your two pence on whether or not you thought/think he was/is a legend.

it was a statement sorry about the aul exclamation marks !

[NeilMcD]

Well I think the whole idea of forums is that they are purely opinion based and the very nature of starting a thread you are inviting opinion from other posters. I could be wrong but I dont think an exclamation mark makes a difference as to me the whole idea of forums is that opinion is expressed by every poster regardless of whether it is sought or not.

[paul_oshea]

threads can also be created as informative pieces of text advising of certain things such as the players in england, which is a thread solely for keeping people up to date, there are many threads in fans forums for meet ups/bullet points on getting to cyprus, cheap deals and what pubs to go to, these are all sources of information that take up a thread, but are not (generally) designed as threads to debate, however one may diverse along the way. so i dont really think every thread has to invite opinion or "debate".

horses for courses and all that.

[NeilMcD]

So are you saying that I am not permitted to express an opinion about Mick Mc Carthy on that thread cause "Zidane" made a statement about how much he thinks that Mc Carthy is a great guy and a leged. How come the people who agreed with Zidane on this but also expressed an opinion have not been taken to taske. Our we living in a Cultural Revolution there where someones opinions are not permitted as they dont agree with the initial poster. Surely I can post up whatever I like as long as it is not racist or or an incitement to hate. I woudl have thought my criticisms of Mc Carthy were pretty fair and balanced and I did not have a go at his personality which can not be said for a lot of the posts on this forum regarding Mc Carthy and Keane.

[NeilMcD]

Who amongst us would have realised Spain were only playing with 10 men if the commentators hadn't said it? I certainly wouldn't have.
There's so much made of this, but I don't blame Mick for not knowing this. How would he have known it? How many in the stadium knew? Who did we nominate to not take a penalty? I don't know, the commentators didn't say it.
The fact of the matter is he didn't notice Spain were down a man. If he wasn't standing next to the player who came off (I can't recall who it was - who can without searching the net first??) he was never going to notice.

For Chr!st sake, he made a mistake more than 3 years ago. Let it go.

I said this at the time to mates watching the game that Spain were missing a guy. Its a pretty basic thing that should be spotted by any manager.

[zinedineontour]

Paul, this is a forum for discussing the Irish football team. If you, or anyone else wants to have a discussion (or make statements) about how you like this person or that person who used to be connected to the Irish football team and you don't want it to degenerate into a football disucssion, then post in it in off-topic.To try and argue that discussing an individual's contribution to the Irish football team should be allowed on this thread is absurd.

As for Zinedineontour not 'inviting opinions', why aren't you also complaining about the other people who posted on this thread, who agree with Zinedine, and who posted their own opinions. How come you are only compaining about those who some criticisms to make? You are not even coherent in the discussion rules you are trying to lay down.

I started the thread just to pass on what mick had to say good to hear someone in the knows opinion about how we would do and thought others might be interested as well.. Didnt expect his career to be disected and all the ****e from saipan brought up again ...