Surely you meant 3035?Originally Posted by Nesta99
On a more serious note, it's tough times for Dundalk. How in God's name could a club like Dundalk go the way of Monaghan, Dublin City and others. It's a very sad state of affairs unfortunately.
Its probably more a rhetorical question but -
How long is a piece of string in answering that and how long do you want to go back. With no disrespect to the hard working people at the likes of Monaghan, Kilkenny there wasnt a large support and/or catchement to tap in to particularly when things hit the skids financially. Others like Dublin City, Sporting Fingal were...well its hard to know what to call them but say vanity projects by some people who imo underestimated LoI in general never mind the costs. Now how has it (maybe) happened to Dundalk? traditional long term very successful league club with a large catchment and decent hardcore regular support? It's hard to point the finger at anyone beyond ownerships that excluded fan involvement bar as spectators and the divisions, agendas, factions within the club (owners, supporters and reflected by various journalists), but you can point directly at the fans for not being ready to step in, the reasons for that are well worn out in discussion but complacency and with some fatigue after 2012 and the driving forces behind 2012 Trust et al, real experience, talent and grafters no longer being about (work, family committments, abroad, nothing left in the tank to give, deceased sadly in some cases) or absorbed in to the club itself. Currently what Im seeing from a distance never mind in the mix are ongoing disjointed efforts to organise as fans so far, and some very odd behaviour on ownership eg interested parties not getting a look in to be part of solutions. Has any club owner ever asked a supporters club not to fundraise? Seemingly not engaged with business groups while also stressing that viability is being assessed and its not good? Maybe there is a masterplan but the final issue that has contributed to all of this is lack of or faux (essential) communication and engagement on all sorts of levels
Really early days imo re Dundalk fans reacting to 1903 and Dundalk trust proposals(which are basically the same).i'm taking a wait and see attitude to both.
The trust crowd haven't yet created an online presence which sits uneasy with me.
Unless you know something different, I can't understand why Temple is involved with the club at all??
One minute he's telling the 1903 sc that fundraising is not essential and the next he's saying the opposite and that he can only fund the 1st team but not the academy teams. Very dodgey
Nobody knows, but colouring inside the lines, he supposedly lost out to BA about this time last year when the club was sold, the league was going to be a complete clusterfoooook if results were expunged and he is the new owner very quickly even though there were at least 2 other interestted buyers. It is rumoured that BA would only deal with Temple and that this was FAI approved. The other groups, 1, genuine fan/former player led, already talking about scarp, another was US based that had a hand in some past mamangerial appointment but walked away quickly, another led by a consideraby wealthy local but also involved former local owner and there seemed to be issues on legacy debt for BA with that individual (and BA sacKed his brother) so wouldnt play ball. JT ownership at face value so far is that bizzare that there could be a rabbit out of the hat. But everything thing from him fronting significant wealth (mad hatter mega mouth wealth), under BA direction so he still is covertly running things, JT is a FAI man to see Dundalk to seasons end to protect the leagues integrity, to he hasnt a bean but likes being in the limelight....whole bunch of rumour and some conspiracies that would make maga proud also. I think its a brave local man who'd take on the club with litle or nothing behind him to wind the club down, he could manage that if the viability asessment is that its not viable. Why then not involve others, or reject fan emergency generated bridging monies, yet defund aspects of the club that are required to have a 2025 licence. The info given, contradictions, nothings to see here not paying for x, are all smoke and mirrors for one reason or another. Its all seculation in an info vacuum, including what role the investors had/have on how things are being handled. There are certain people that when you hear that they have walked away that its batsh1t bad and that seems to have happened. JT has flexed his legal muscles with LMFM imo unnecessarily when a simple retraction would have done so is that an indication of the type way forward? particularly if a Trust is established in time and willing.
I too will wait and see on who to row in behind in terms of supporter groups (we have soooo much time) but how on earth there are 'rival' groups? If there are 2 groups that can generate income fine but as rival 'bids'...maybe i'd not bother with any if they cant get to the pretty easy common consensus!!
Maybe there should be a banner for P6 at the next game saying 'Do you want our club back'.
*after seeing sbgawa's post on the press box pod maybe posts should be moved to that thread if they can?
Last edited by Nesta99; 11/10/2024 at 11:27 AM.
It's insanity that there are two rivals trusts but from speaking to people at the meeting the other night it sounded like the 1903 just copied and pasted the new trusts structure with a few minor tweaks, that would surely put people off?
Raised a few eyebrows and quite a few stifled chuckles all right.
Yup for sure, but there's the odd person also involved with the new Trust that could put people off. There's plenty to put people off all round if they want to be put off. None of this is easy, if there is a lack of willingness, one way or another, to find common ground then heads need to be knocked together!! That common ground could just to fulfill different roles right now eg 1903 looks at immediate need with eg academy costs, Trust is longer term looking to fan/hybrid ownership, prepping to step in if the club is deemed unviable and to fold, work the rest out when the sword of damocles is no longer hanging. Judgement of Solomon stuff could indicate which group has purely the future of the club in mind and not little fiefdoms. But it is all early stage proposals and not even clear where the club is at publically at least, easy to say but a leap of faith will be needed at some stage and clock is ticking.
Last edited by Nesta99; 12/10/2024 at 1:17 AM.
As someone with no skin in the game the 1903 seem to regularly go on mad solo runs without consulting members, I think of the mental statement they released calling for Ainscough to reverse the decision to appoint King, members weren't consulted and were rightly ****ed off. Now there are taking a vote on what style of membership model they should implement but didn't offer the option to say no membership model. IMO a supporters club are not equipped to run a trust, a SC should be nothing more than a voice for supporters, a vehicle to get volunteers on match day, run fundraisers etc. A trust is a serious business and should be focused solely on raising money to safeguard the future of the club. It's clear that this all comes down to personal rivalries which is sad given the stakes are so high for the future of the club.
Tbf to the 1903 sc they gave the option for just retention of the €24 a year annual sub with no add on.
I think they're doing a good job in the circumstances and although they seem a bit rudderless at times they are definitely working hard to make everything right ?
As for personal rivalry really don't think there is any? If it's there then it will be sorted very quickly, nobody will accept that kind of bs at this time.
Genuine question here but what is the difference between a supporters club and a trust? Both would be made up of supporters in this case. A trust would need a larger financial commitment from membership (some supporters clubs do player sponsorships etc so have some financial input from members). There would need to be more financial oversight and likely a different model to vote for treasurer, president etc but converting from a supporters club to a trust you can set these things up the same way you would need to for starting a trust from scratch. Surely converting an existing club that has a solid membership base to a trust makes more sense than trying to start a new entity from scratch? The internal fan politics of Dundalk aside I see no reason a supporters club can't become a trust especially when you consider the speed at which one needs to be formed by Dundalk fans.
I know with my club theres a supporters club trust to deal with paying our creditors and the people running it would be independent of the club and not supporters as such.
Gary Cronin is he the right man to manage Longford Town?
Not sure there's too many left in it at this stage but it did a lot of good work paying off debts. I think the difference to a supporters club is, ideally, you'd have independent trustees who maybe aren't even hardcore supporters but are able to ensure the trust is operated correctly and in accordance with the specified purpose for which it's set up. In our case the money was ringfenced for a specific list of creditors and it wasn't available to the club for anything else.
Upwards to the vanguard where the pressure is too high.
Longford leading Cobh 1-0 at the break. A Longford win cements 9th for them.
I dont know if it is pertinant to the current circumstances but the person who was the original figurehead and driving force behind the 1903 SC didnt seem to remain for that long as more a vocal and foreceful personality seemed to take point quite quickly as thing got going. Notably there was a ladies SC formed soon after, Im pretty sure by the original 1903 founder, dont know if its still going, there must have been some diffrences of opinion but maybe were settled. The chap that was very quick to become the voice of the 1903 SC, Outspoken mentions a statement released without consultation and solo runs, he is now with the new Trust group, did he speak on their behalf at the SC meeting recently? Maybe Im barking up the wrong tree but itd be a reasonable guess that lines drawn in the sand could be rooted in the previous manoeuvre to front and centre. I can see why there'd be some rivalry or personality clashes, resistance to percieved or legit fear of railroading but its not the time to dig in. I dont doubt that there is lots of hard work by all regardless.
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