If we had to give man of the match to an Irish player it should have been to Lee Carsley, if it wasn't for him taking the foot off the pedal by taking off Grealish we'd probably have lost by 5
Its really not that complicated!!!
This is a bit weird.Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Has he had John O'Shea forced on him by the FAI and is he trying to get rid of him?
O'Shea offers nothing imo apart from being a decent man who was a very good player in one of the biggest clubs in the world. That means he probably carries a bit of respect with players - based on playing career that is.
Clearly Paddy McCarthy is very highly rated in the game. Problem is would he stay on if they get O'Shea off the ticket.
Tuesday is the game that shows us more anyway. Even with Jurgen Klopp, we would have struggled against England. Second half I thought we played with a bit more nous by getting more of a presence in midfield. Granted, England took their foot off the gas.
Kelleher showed he is top class. He would be comfortably England number 1. I was in Liverpool last week visiting old mates and my Liverpool supporting friends think the Georgian guy could be an investment by FSG and all think they don't want to sell Kelleher. He will see minutes because Alisson is injured every year. FSG balance the books so would not be shocked if he replaces him next season and they sell Alisson.
That lizzies in a box song was horrible. No fan of the royal family but hated it being sung.
I mentioned this half as a joke a couple of weeks ago, but I do feel like HH has been leaning heavily on the coaching staff because he knew it was going to be a pretty tough start. Wanted to have some ready made excuses in, and I wouldn't blame him for that. My personal expectations were very low and think 2-0 flattered us. The gulf is massive but the 5 at the back has to die. I'm going to try and not judge him until the Nations League is over at the earliest. The bar is set good and low, lets see if and where improvements are.
I know a lot of you have very strong opinions about Kenny here, but one of my big takeaways from the 2 matches against Greece was how much better they felt man for man, It's a good experiment to get to play someone again so soon to compare and see if there's actually anything a different approach will bring, lord I think we need a different shape or we will just surrender midfield again thou.
We also struggled v Finland under the early Kenny reign, although I think that was probably too long ago to really make a decent comparison.
The team has a real lack of maturity and steel, something that will probably only come with time, it has been an issue since we started bringing through so many new caps, and that's my best guess as to why we keep persisting with some of the older guys, no matter how much they are struggling physically. It's probably not the route I'd take, but maybe the alternative is worse. We have a lot of very promising players with plenty international experience that I think we all hoped would be further along than they once looked like they would be, I still think there's plenty of improvement there in individual players, so I feel cautiously optimistic about the medium term squad situation, but it could all go to hell easily enough too.
Last edited by Acornvilla; 08/09/2024 at 7:03 AM.
I expected us to lose 2-0 or thereabouts beforehand. Too much of a gulf in quality and confidence between the teams.
Was not pleased with the performance - it was nothing like the level we saw against France at home not too long ago, but the new fella hasn't had much time to get his views across.
Ogbene was the only player trying to create something in an attacking sense - I don't understand the criticism he gets. Yes his end product was frustrating but without him we'd be worse.
I try not to question player's motiovation, but Doherty plays like he's half-interested. Don't see what his attituide brings to the pitch or the dressingroom.
Kelleher was superb. Knight made a positive difference. Good to see Evan get a little stretch.
We're really in the doldrums... hard to see how we get out of it.
Anyone that has worked in any professional environment would have to expect that O'Shea formulated the formation, selection, tactics in advance and presented his proposal to Halgrimsson. The fact that the proposal was Doherty and Brady and Coleman down the sides and two midfielders again through the middle concerns me about O'Shea. But I was already concerned. More concerning is that Halgrimsson accepted the proposal and allowed it to be implemented.
The only hope is that HH decided to let O'Shea do this one as a kind of free hit, almost purposely taking the pressure off himself for a tough game in that regard. But there can be no such excuses on Tuesday - he's now seen the latest O'Shea disasterclass in the flesh so it needs to be fixed for Greece and O'Shea needs to be sent back to handing out the bibs duties and hopefully learning a few things about football tactics from someone else.
The hounding of O’Shea is mindless scapegoatism. Mob mentality. Ireland were totally outclassed and you label it an O’Shea disasterclass. You’re a spine looking for a shiver.
He's had five games now and he hasn't been able to string a decent selection, formation or performance together. It's just telling it like it is, the man doesn't know what he's doing sadly, neither, it appears, does McCarthy.
You definitely should. We are treating these irish players like they are under 14s and everyone needs a game and some praise and a chance. That should be done now and players need to have consequences for been woefully below the standard and yet ohbenes consequence was to win MOTM , what a losing we don't care mentality that is. Lads will pile in now saying ogbene is a great lad and he was trying more than anyone else he always gives his all and he must be such a positive influence in the squad because he is always happy and he played LOI so he deserves it which just sums up what' we have become. For all those who loved
saying the modern player needs a cuddle so they feel loved to get the best out of them and that Kenny would bring that where o Neill had been lacking in the Barney skills the ireland set up has become cuddle kingdom and we are reaping the rewards of that enlightened culture
Very, very poor.
As has been pointed out already, prior to the match, several posters pointed out the obvious folly of setting the team up against the might of European Championship Finalists England with only two central midfielders and what would likely happen, and were of course proved 100% right.
It wasn't a 3-4-3 but literally a flat back five, the two 30-something 'wingbacks' predictably lacking the athleticism to get up and down the pitch effectively, nor the tactical and technical nous to move into midfield areas when needed.
Molumby and Smallbone in midfield were, as forecast, completely outmatched and outnumbered by England's three, with TAA often moving into midfield and Kane dropping in there too. The front three, with the possible exception of Ogbene, neither got ahold of the ball in a way that would ease pressure on our defence, nor applied sufficient pressure on ball when England were in possession - the opening goal being symptomatic of that. Idah didn't look fit and didn't even offer physicality.
England didn't even have to work for their win, and that's the most damning indictment; the game being effectively over as a contest well within the first half hour.
Even a lower league side up against PL side in a cup competition will look to be dogged, compact and hardworking, and will often stay in a match for 60-70 minutes before eventually succumbing to superior opposition - and there is no shame in that.
But yesterday's performance was shameful. Having effortlessly wrapped up the game in the first half there was a definite sense of England taking their foot off the gas, almost in pity, in the second. Five tackles and only one completed in 90-plus minutes in a match against England tells it's own story. Pathetic.
Last edited by Trequartista20; 08/09/2024 at 10:04 AM.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/socce...751231119.html
I’m learning as we go,” continued Hallgrimsson. “Hopefully, I will have more authority when time goes on. We are all in it together and for sure I need a lot of help in the first one or two camps, not knowing the characters of the players. I am learning as we go, hopefully I will have more authority when time goes on, but I really like the staff, John and Paddy [McCarthy] have been fantastic, a big support.
"When you come to a new culture, you cannot think you can change everyone - in my case to an Icelandic. You have to adapt to the players, the culture, and what they have been doing and using what is good.
"When you come into an environment and start to change things because you like it in a certain way, you can’t do that. You have to first see what is good and what is bad before you change it. My learning is now to see what is good, what we can change, I would say 95% of what I have seen here is quality.”
Well if 95% of the culture is quality then we really are in trouble
He's clearly an act in haste, repent at leisure aware person. Take a long look, have a good think, a measure three times but cut once type of carpenter as it were. He's culturally unaware and wants to soak it all in, delightful. What he's about to become aware of too is we are among the most deluded but obsessed fanbases in the world and we are numerous, we want to see things being done and we want them, literally, yesterday
Alarm bells were ringing for me when O'Shea was kept on, and nothing that has happened since has lessened this initial feeling of unease.
Very clearly, we needed a completely clean break from the demoralising and abject failure of the previous régime, and yet what we are getting is simply a continuation of the Kenny method.
That's when I had to laugh when I saw a handful of rather triumphalist posts and comments from a few of diehard Kenny supporters to the effect of 'how'd you like your back to basics now!?' 'How's that "pragmatism" working out for you?' etc.
What we saw yesterday was a team of the personnel Kenny would have chosen, in system Kenny would have chosen and playing with the the same disorganised, incoherent, undynamic passivity of a team Kenny would have chosen.
Of course I understand that due to the (absolutely typical) incompetence of the FAI, Hallgrimsson was given no friendlies to use as preparation before this extremely difficult fixture against a team rated at number four in the world.
However, he really needs to put his own stamp on the team and have the courage and 'authority' to move on from a failed era and be his own man, even if that means eventually bringing in his own staff.
Have to agree with that. O'Shea might be good for one camp as part of a transition, but HH has to stamp his own mark on the team. HH is undermining himself completely the way he is talking. He's not getting paid to learn how to manage Ireland.. he's getting paid to manage Ireland. Would not be at all sad to see less of O'Shea.
Was that on Twitter or YBIG or somewhere? I got a bit of a whiff of that off one or two of the tracker pages on twitter alright.
Unfortunately the reality is that there will be a (hopefully small) group of so called Ireland supporters out there now who will actively want Hallgrimsson to fail in order to confirm their own biases on a range of things, from the previous manager, if they backed him right through, to the style of play, if they think the only correct way to play football is through the thirds.
I find it a bit amusing and telling that they were out as early as last night, given that that clearly wasn't a team that was set up by him, but longer term they're best ignored.
Sounds like you need a cuddle, TBH (and in fairness, we all do after yesterday). Ogbene wasn't great but he was the second best Irish player on the pitch, frustrating as he was. FWIW, the BBC player rating had Ogbene as second behind Kelleher. ****e and all as we were that's about right.
Last edited by texidub; 08/09/2024 at 1:03 PM.
But that's not right. That's why we are in this situation. If ogbene continues to play as part of a front 3 then we won't be qualifying for any tournament s in that period. But sure he'll get a few cheers and maybe the occasional lad booked so that's grand. If he plays right back or even right wing back we might actually get players on the pitch in positions where they can help us be most effective as a team
The argument that he should be played in a different position is definitely valid. I was reading what you were saying previously as Ogbene being below standard regardless of where he is played.
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