Republic of Ireland v England - Saturday, 7th September 2024 - UEFA Nations League

[pineapple stu]

That doesn't really make sense though, if you're not going to address the reasons why we're being outclassed then there's really no point having any management at all, you might as well just let Marc Canham pick the team.

But the main reason we're being outclassed is because of the huge gulf in ability.

That plus we're not helping ourselves being so keen to give the ball away so often - but that's a factor of the gulf in quality. Plus a management decision in terms of the long ball.

Yeah, you can put another (crap) player in midfield but that's going to create more space at the back.. Can we afford that?

I'm not saying there's not something to be said for a change in formation - but the idea it'd make any real difference here is fanciful I think

[Eirambler]

But again, everyone knows there's a standard difference between the two teams. That doesn't need saying really. The whole point of tactically setting up a team is to maximise your abilities and - particularly when there's a gulf in class that you're on the wrong side of - try to limit the difference between the two teams. Otherwise you might as well just play 4-4-2 every game.

Our first half tactics didn't do anything to minimise the differences between the two teams, they actually exacerbated them. Slowly we've been moving towards a better setup as the game has gone on. We don't know for sure but I'm hoping that's an early sign of Hallgrimsson taking over.

The one thing I'll say is thank God they didn't give the job to O'Shea. He clearly hasn't the first clue. Whether HH does or not remains to be seen, but he's been shown a good way not to do things today if nothing else.

[tetsujin1979]

[Eirambler]

Kelleher should have been the Irish player of the match. For a man who hasn't played a competitive game yet this season he was excellent.

[brine3]

Would be 5-0 if it wasn't for Kelleher.

Needs to get out of LFC.

[passinginterest]

I’ll take a little solace in that things got better with the changes so maybe that’s a sign of HH starting to take control. Although England were playing walking football most of the second half.

Fair to say that was pretty grim son.

[brine3]

74% vs 26% possession
9 vs 1 shots on target

Grim

[Eirambler]

Well at least there are a few obvious changes that can be made for Greece off the back of that anyway. Longer term I think it's inevitable that we'll switch to a four at the back, but the next game is probably too soon for that, so I'll just work on the basis here that it will still be wing backs, even though we literally don't have anyone that can competently play left wing back to the standard required.

We obviously have to put three in the middle. I don't know how many times we need to learn that lesson at this point, it feels like we've been trying this 3-4-3/5-2-3 nonsense for about three years now. It never works because we get overrun in centre mid every single time.

If we're playing three centre backs then we need three actual centre backs in the positions. Personally I think it's overkill and it's taking away a player that we could use somewhere else. But at least playing three actual centre backs would be better than trying to stick a 35 year old career long full back in there again.

There's no point starting Idah, he's either not fit enough or he's not good enough. Possibly both at the moment. Either start Ferguson, or if he's not fit enough just start Szmodics as your striker. That would have made more sense for tonight's game because he'll cover back as well, Ferguson might make more sense against Greece.

So something like this:

---------------------------Kelleher
----------------Collins O'Shea Scales
Ogbene Molumby Smallbone Knight O'Dowda
------------------Ferguson Szmodics

I've stuck O'Dowda at LWB out of desperation. I don't think he's the answer. I don't think there is one which is why I would play a back four with O'Shea or Scales over there - at least they can defend.

[Snapshot]

Not one of our players would get on the England bench. Listening to part-time Irishman Roy Keane is painful. He has no right to an opinion on any Irish performance good or bad. We were overwhelmed, there’s room for optimism.

[elatedscum]

Awful stuff.

The side we had on after 60 minutes is the side I would have started with.

With Trent dropping centrally, it was 4v2 in midfield and was far too easy. It wasn’t even that Molumby and Smallbone were bad, they were just chasing shadows.You had a striker often dropping back but it was still a man over. Knight coming in, dramatically improved that.

And the other thing was Coleman v Gordon, it was just wasn’t a fair fight. O’Brien’s pace and strength would have and did largely nullify that.

I mentioned both them as reasons I wouldn’t play 4-3-3 and 5-2-3 (not even thinking he’d include Coleman in a central three). The first goal came directly from both those things, Gordon’s run and Trent having too much time centrally.

I find it hard to comprehend how high level professional coaches can’t see that. It’s not easy at all to compete with England but you do your best to limit the ways in which they can beat you.

When we made those changes, there was an immediate difference with the Szmodics chance and the Molumby chance.

The secondary cost of us making those initial lineup mistakes meant that we then couldn’t make the changes we needed to. Ideally, you’d have hooked Szmodics for Parrott, he was knackered and on a booking but we needed 7 changes rather than 5.

Even though Kasey did well, don’t think he’s a wing back but Brady was wrecked and on a booking and they wanted to get Ferguson onto the pitch and make an attacking change. And at least one of the late chances was cause he didn’t track the runner.

Thank **** we have Kelleher, proving once again, he can show up without playing for a few weeks and be near world class.

Finally, I wish people would stop going on that HH should have been in March or June. He was managing Jamaica in an international tournament. The process was a shambles but if the end goal was HH, you weren’t going to get him before this window.

[Eirambler]

I find it hard to comprehend how high level professional coaches can’t see that.

ES I agree with most of what you've written, but I think you're massively overselling John O'Shea and Paddy McCarthy here!

[passinginterest]

Well at least there are a few obvious changes that can be made for Greece off the back of that anyway. Longer term I think it's inevitable that we'll switch to a four at the back, but the next game is probably too soon for that, so I'll just work on the basis here that it will still be wing backs, even though we literally don't have anyone that can competently play left wing back to the standard required.

We obviously have to put three in the middle. I don't know how many times we need to learn that lesson at this point, it feels like we've been trying this 3-4-3/5-2-3 nonsense for about three years now. It never works because we get overrun in centre mid every single time.

If we're playing three centre backs then we need three actual centre backs in the positions. Personally I think it's overkill and it's taking away a player that we could use somewhere else. But at least playing three actual centre backs would be better than trying to stick a 35 year old career long full back in there again.

There's no point starting Idah, he's either not fit enough or he's not good enough. Possibly both at the moment. Either start Ferguson, or if he's not fit enough just start Szmodics as your striker. That would have made more sense for tonight's game because he'll cover back as well, Ferguson might make more sense against Greece.

So something like this:

---------------------------Kelleher
----------------Collins O'Shea Scales
Ogbene Molumby Smallbone Knight O'Dowda
------------------Ferguson Szmodics

I've stuck O'Dowda at LWB out of desperation. I don't think he's the answer. I don't think there is one which is why I would play a back four with O'Shea or Scales over there - at least they can defend.

I think it might be O’Brien ahead of Scales, Browne for Molomby and Parrot rather than Ferguson. But wouldn’t be surprised to see that being the starting shape.

[Eirambler]

You could be right about O'Brien ahead of Scales, given that he came on ahead of him tonight. Re-reading the post I should have put him in. I don't think Parrott is good enough to lead the line yet. Maybe it will come.

[pineapple stu]

But again, everyone knows there's a standard difference between the two teams. That doesn't need saying really. The whole point of tactically setting up a team is to maximise your abilities and - particularly when there's a gulf in class that you're on the wrong side of - try to limit the difference between the two teams. Otherwise you might as well just play 4-4-2 every game.

That's all fine, but I'm not sure it's in the five biggest issues with today.

England are much, much better than us. I think we underestimate the gap here at times. And that feeds into many of our players playing badly today. That's what being worse than someone is

We are desperate for options at fullback or wingback. You've suggested O'Dowda (was it Greece he last played there? And was hauled off?) or O'Shea, acknowledging it's not his main position. We need to replace Coleman/Doherty/Brady - I called them out when I saw the team - but I don't see the replacements being any better

We're desperate for options in centre mid. That's probably why the Collins suggestion gets so much traction. Knight, Molumby and Smallbone - is it a massive improvement?

We were desperate on the ball today. Far too many long balls to absolutely no-one. It was like watching MON again, without any tempo. That was my biggest takeaway tbh. What was our gameplan? How much improvement have we in the tank for Tuesday?

And our crossing was really poor. Didn't HH say he wanted to get balls into the box from out wide? Or was that an analysis of his style on here? Either way, how many didn't beat the first man or were too deep?

We did improve a bit in the second half - but England had switched off by then.

For all that, and acknowledging that this was effectively a nothing game, I'm less optimistic about the group now than before kickoff.

[Eirambler]

We'll have to agree to disagree Stu. Setup is everything for me, the standard difference is a given, but you make the best of what you have. We'll lose games because we're not that good, but no team should leave Lansdowne with a win without feeling like they have had to work hard for it. England didn't have to today because we didn't set up properly to make them at least work for what they got. We just handed it to them.

[liamoo11]

I think changing to a flat back four is the least of our problems here.

We're utterly outclassed and moving someone from centre back to centre mid, and putting someone who doesn't usually play fullback there to fill a gap isn't going to change the core issue

God help us when Brady/Doherty/Coleman retire unless someone comes through and quickly

Edit - and on that note, Coleman goes off injured. Him and Doherty replaced by O'Brien and Knight. How's this work?

I actually thought that worked with ogbene going to his best position wingback. Ogbene snuffed out Gordon with his pace who had been a threat and had the athleticism to give us an out ball wide as he coukd get up and down which poor doherty couldn't. Ogbene even put in a good pull back for the SS chance that looked like the closest we got to scoring. Knight came into midfield and at least shored that up and made us more compact

[Eirambler]

The other thing of note, and of course it's been pointed out multiple times because it's unmissable, is how bad our three 30+ players were today. They're basically done, ready for the scrapheap just like Duffy, Hendrick, McCarthy, Hourihane and everyone else from that generation.

Coleman was the only one with any longevity into his 30s, but he's older than the rest so he looks done now too. A small chance Egan might get over his injuries and climb back into contention, but he probably won't to any great extent and he doesn't actually have that many caps anyway relative to his age.

Most successful teams have quite a few 60+ cappers who still make a big contribution to the team but we now have nothing like that. We don't have a single player with over 40 caps who has anything worthwhile to offer from here on.

[liamoo11]

Let's hope this catastrophic showing will prove to HH that quite a number of these Irish players are just not international standard. It's probably a bit of a wake up call for him anyway,he's probably already pining for Jamaica!!
Scales and O'Brien should be playing for a start, Doherty,Smallbone,Maloumby and Brady shouldn't even be in the squad ffs

I thought molumby and smallbone did as well as anyone coukd up against 4 - rice, mainly, grealish and either trent stepping in or kane droping in. . We gave up the middle of the pitch to have a presence out wide in SS and ogbene which is utterly illogical when you know you will regardless of the formation have less of the ball. If u play like that against a team.u expect to dominate cause you want to make the pitch as big as possible in the hope you will drag your opposition.out of the central areas then fair enough bit how was that ever going to be the case against England?

[Nesta99]

I’ll take a little solace in that things got better with the changes so maybe that’s a sign of HH starting to take control. Although England were playing walking football most of the second half.

Fair to say that was pretty grim son.

Im going to take a little solace from the managers postmatch interview not being excruciatingly painful to watch!

[Jolly Red Giant]

Kelleher should have been the Irish player of the match. For a man who hasn't played a competitive game yet this season he was excellent.

Keller has shown once again that he is a top class goalkeeper - and that is why it is going to cost £30m to sign him.