Not a bad idea as he may get in on the end of Duffs crossess on the back post.
We could try it out in Cyprus except have
Kilbane, Kavanagh S Reid, Duff as our midfield.
In Trap we trust
Bambi on the right ? I don't think so. Think he's playing centre midfield for Blackburn at the moment. He seems to have lost the ability (confidence) to go past people. How is he in the air ?Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
One man up front does NOT work. We tried that first time out in Switzerland - ball kept coming back. You must have someone up front who can compete for the ball and hold it up.
If we play long ball 1 man up front won't work. What we need to do is pass the ball and play it down the wings. Use the pace of Keane + Duff and the passing and vision of Reid to pick them out. If we do that then it'll work. Duff, Reid and Finnan/S.Reid should get forward more.
We need to have more invention and movement.
Pity MacGeady hasn't hit form this season. Imagine him on the right?
I mentioned this a few times already but I am 100% sure its only a matter of time before Reid is transformed into a central midfielder. I was really impressed with his tracking back and tackling for Spurs this season. Put it this way, if Alan Quinn can be transformed into a central midfielder than Reid certainly can. Quinn had a stormer in the centre against Holland. He also impressed there in the previous match against Jamaica. He's hardler "built" to be a central midfielder.
Reid made his debut for Ireland in the centre against Canada. I can't remember the game now but the game started of with Kavanagh, Stephen Reid, Duff and Andy Reid in midfield. Kav went off early and Holland replaced him. Doherty and Keane up front. Anyway, Reid got man of the match and crossed for a rare Keane headed goal.
I'd try him out there after the current qualifiers but wouldn't risk him in these crucial games.
I agree that he would be better in the center. He isnt as mobile as the likes of Duff and is always looking to pick out a pass. Physically Im not sure if he is up to the job yet though. Maybe at the end of the EPL he might be a bit stronger.
Far too weak, will get walked over..
I am not looking forward to an Ireland team post Keane & Cunningham...
Wilderness here we come
I actually like Alan Quinn a lot. He played alongside Kinsella against Jamaica and was always looking to "add value" to the play, i.e. he was always looking for us to be in a better position after he played the ball then when he received it. Kinsella was content to just play it back & play it sideways all afternoon. Holland likewise in the previous game. I think he's been starting for Sheff Utd in their last few games & my hope is that they & Reading go all the way for automatic promotion. Alan Quinn has something to offer I think.
As for not risking him against Switzerland I wouldn't rule it out. I'd certainly at least bear him in mind if a tactical change needs to be made with 25 mins left, like against France (with the benefit of hindsight of course).
And Condex & jollyrodger, it's only my opinion against yours, but I also think Reid is more than capable of looking after himself. He's probably stronger than Duff & Robbie even and neither of them suffers.
One advabtage of Reid in central midfield is that he has a pretty good shot,
I believe, better than Kilbane anyway I would imagine. I bet he would
knock a few in from distance.
I'm going to expand on this point (& I'm going to post in instalments, my PC has crashed 3 times already trying to post this!)
3-4-1-2, described as follows:
---------------Goalkeeper-----------------
----Wide Back---Central Back---Wide Back---
Wide Midfield---Centre Mid---Centre Mid---Wide Midfield
----------------Advanced Midfield-----------
----------Forward---------Forward---------
3-4-1-2 could be the ideal solution to have a player like Andy Reid play an advanced midfield role; a creative link between a solid midfield & our front two could well be a solution to the problems we encountered against the French.
Before Roy Keane returned to the fold I felt we needed to keep a conventional midfield 4 to avoid being overrun like we were in Basle in '03 and we needed to have an advanced midfielder to maximise our creative threat & to maximise our ball retention. The only thing that could give therefore was the back 4 as really I don't think one upfront suits us at all.
What I like about this shape is that it adds a creative dimension without conceding a numeric advantage in midfield. This could be a particular advantage when Roy Keane retires.
In Dublin, many opponents only play one upfront anyway so we wouldn't be conceding any meaningful numeric advantage at the back, and it'd be the job of the midfield 4 to cover back anyway, and the advanced midfielder to drop back to regular midfield if necessary. Arrigo Sacchi says formations count for nothing as long as your players are prepared to do what's asked of them. He also said that the reason 3 at the back never took off in Italy was because Italians don't have a work ethic. They never track back or hound the opposition so 4 at the back was always necessary. Work ethic isn't something we're lacking though.
We have the personnel for this shape:
Central-back: Cunningham, Dunne
Wide-backs: Dunne, O'Brien, O'Shea, Carr, Finnan.
Wide right-midfielder: Carr, Finnan, A. Reid, S. Reid, Duff, Miller, Doyle or Ronnie O'Brien even
Wide left-midfielder: Duff, A. Reid, Kilbane, Kennedy
Central midfielders: Keane, Kavanagh, Miller, O'Shea, S. Reid, A. Reid, Quinn, Miller
Advanced Midfielder: A. Reid, Duff, Miller, maybe Quinn
Forwards: Keane, Morrisson, Elliott, Connolly, Doyle
There are multiple combinations within this shape that look attractive on paper. Personally, I'd prefer to keep Duff in an orthodox wide role though I do think he could be the advanced midfielder / free role if Andy Reid fills (no pun intended) a conventional wide or central midfield role.
McGeady is a potential inclusion is some of the positions above.
irealnd playing with 3 defenders ? we dont have the quality players for that in all honesty.
Its an attacking minded team, unless one of the midfielders sit in front of the back four, i guess that would be roy. The likes of real madrid only have 6 attacking players. there is 7 there.
A.Reid has still to prove that he is physically and athetlically up to it. He hasnt before IMO and often looks completly shattered after the end of 90 minutes in a competitve game. Its early days to him in fairness.
i would play it
Given
O Brien, Cunningham, Dunne
Finnan Keane O Shea Duff
Reid
Keane Morrisson
In Trap we trust
I reckon there may even be less required of Andy Reid physically in this role, certainly as I envisage it anyway. In interntaional football you'd expect him to be protected by continental referees as long as his control is good enough.
I also envisage this shape as being quite robust defensively. Almost all of the wide midfield options I've cited are more than capable of doubling up or dropping back to a full-back style role if required & I actually have faith in the ability of our defenders to do what's required, especially against a defensively set up team visiting Dublin. There's not necessarily 7 offensive players - I'd envisage one of the central midfield players, Roy in all likelihood, sitting in front of the back 4 as you say.
I think it's a winner on paper but then I'm just a bloke sitting in front of a PC, not a man who has worked with professional footballers all his life. Still, I haven't heard the "but we're Irish, we can only play 4-4-2" response yet which is refreshing.
Anyone who thinks Any Reid is an international class central midfielder
is a fool!
Also 4-4-2 is the only formation we can play have people not been
watching Engalnd or Man Utd trying to play different formations
comical.
And both teams have far better players than we do
ok I put my hand up I am a fool Thanks for that. Surely you should be able to have a debate about the merits of a player without resorting to an insult of teh people who hold that opinion.
In Trap we trust
Apologies if offence taken!(didnt think you would get upset)
Maybe I should have said fooling themselves!
Just becasue Reid makes one or two decent takles
and passes from a central position doesnt make him
a midfielder.
Thats a knee jerk reaction that would cause more problems than it
solved and would have to be rectified further down the line.
It would also lead to calls for Kerr to be sacked depending on the
level of disaster that came from such a move
I've been having problems with my PC all afternoon and some of my posts haven't gone through.
About 10 minutes ago I typed, in response to jollyrodger, that at least I haven't got the usual "but we're Irish, we can only play 4-4-2" response. Then I saw hoops1's post! :
Watching England adapting what were effectively DEFENSIVE formations against teams as weak as Wales & Norn Iron was indeed comical. MUFC struggled with a new formation for a reason - lone forward doesn't suit RVN. It has nothing to do with where these teams are from. I remember Liverpoool recovering from 3 down in the CL final with 3 at the back, and one of those was Traore! Celtic adapted 3 at the back to good effect, and seamlessly, in 2000.
Chelsea benefitted from their new formation for a reason - it suited their players. Good defenders & good width. The players I've listed are all naturally suited to the roles I've identified, in my opinion.
What I'm suggesting is a way of addressing our offensive weaknesses without compromising our defense. I'm not suggesting we use it competitively soon, unless we're chasing a goal, but I do think it's a viable option.
Well said Stuttgart, again a well informed post with not personal insults etc. thats what boards like this shoudl be about. I agree systems work when you have the players that suit them. But any system wont work if you dont have the players that are suited to it.
4 3 3 is all the rage now, but it work for Chelsea as they have the holding player they have the breaking player from midfield, They have a big front man who can win headers etc and is fast. They have good wingers who track back but also can supply good crosses. I think the mistake Ferguson is making is that he is playing a system that does not suit his players with the exception of maybe Roy Keane.
Also it is not a knee jerk reaction on my part. I pointed out in my posts that is something that I had thought about for a good long timea and the France game confirmed it for me. I did have some of the fears that are expressed but over the last while since he has gone to spurs I think Reid has calmed those fears for me. Eirebhoy pointed out that he made his debut there and got man of the match, although it was against Canada. In international football the most important think is that your players can hold posession. Pirlo is a central midfielder but he has Gattuso to do the heavey duty stuff. But what pirlo does is keep the ball and keep it simple and then sometimes play a killer pass. I am not saying that Reid is at that level but he is as physical as Pirlo is and can tackle just as well. In this counry we have to get away from the fact that we need big strong players in midfield. We were missing a creative player in the centre and I think Reid is the answer.
In Trap we trust
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