Roy Keane to miss Swiss

**Reality Bites** · 14/09/2005, 1:55 PM

Sad state of affair that we're still sweat so much on Roys fitness, just no talent in the midfield area.. although my hunch is he should be back in three weeks, get a premiership game under his belt, and ready to have a right go at the swiss.. man we owe them one so much it hurts!

**keenanboy** · 14/09/2005, 2:10 PM

These stupid papers! Just looking for that extra bit of sensationalism to sell a few more copies...in one report its 2 weeks, then its 4, then 6 in another. Relax, he'll be there when the time comes. There's one more huge game left in him. Must agree with the sad state of affairs in the midfield dept, though, the centre is so poor without him. Holland lacks conviction, passion, leadership etc, Zilbane just can't pass properly etc etc. I'm not his biggest fan, but maybe its about time that O'Shea got a full start in the centre with Roy. Seems to link up well with him there.

**colster** · 14/09/2005, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by Metrostars

But it was Kerr's tactics of having Duff and Reid come scurrying back everytime France came forward that hindered their game. On the midfield situation, I usually get lambasted whenever I bring up Ronnie O'Brien's name around here. But he's been probably the best midfielder in the US the last few years and I think he could do a job for us in the middle. However for Kerr, live doesnt exist outside the English Premiership. Just look at how long Ian Harte was exiled by him.
In the last qualifying campaign, Russia and the Swiss both skrewed up enough in other games to give us a chance in the last two games. What happened. And then in this campaign, we didnt get the job done against Israel. I blame Kerr.

The reason why we didn't win the game against France and Israel is that we can't keep possession of the ball. We give it away far too often.

Kerr's not to blame for that it's the quality of the players. Remember McCarthy's teams let in last minute equalisers and winners. Kerr wasn't around then just the players. We qualified for the last WC because we had a great midfielder on the top of his form with a decent partner in Kinsella.

So can you explain why Kerr is to blame? What did he do wrong in those games?

**keenanboy** · 14/09/2005, 2:25 PM

good post,
I agree with you, Kerr is not to blame, well not entirely. You could point the finger at him for the substitution against Israel at home, Robbie for Kav instead of putting on a striker and killing the game. Apart from that he hasn't done too much wrong...Tel Aviv was unlucky, we controlled the whole game and looked comfortable, Paris was a solid performance...and France in Dublin was just one of those things. If we qualify for Germany next year nobody will care about drawing to Israel or even losing to France

**NeilMcD** · 14/09/2005, 2:33 PM

Plus some times its a bit of Luck. Mc carthy was unlucky in his 2nd campaign but was shocking in his first one. In his 3rd campaign we were blessed. Portugal and Holland at home were 2 of our luckiest performances I have ever seen. Dunne and Staunton were giving the ball to the Dutch and Portuguese to score. Keane was immense in both games as he was against France last week. HOlland at home goes down as a great performance because of the result but we got battered that day. France I would argue was a better performance but we got beaten. Results dictacte peoples memories of games to a large extent. That is why I would say a man should be judged on a campaign and not a one off game.

**Lionel Ritchie** · 14/09/2005, 2:41 PM

this is all hot air.

We wont know til much much closer to the swiss game who is and isn't available.

Have to take issue with Totalfootball calling Aldo a "Brit". You weren't too concerned about his place of birth when he deprived himself of a celebration no-one would've begrudged him, after scoring against Mexico, to get the ball back to the center circle as quick as possible to try and get us an equaliser.

I don't give a crap about him being british by birth so dont mind coming back with a "ah technically he is a Brit " arguement. You're trying to relegate him to "2nd class Irishman" status and it aint washing. Have a bit of respect.

BTW I don't blame Kerr for us losing to the French -going longball for the last ten minutes notwithstanding.

He does however have a case to answer for six points dropped home and away to Israel and in Basle.

**OwlsFan** · 14/09/2005, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by totalfootball

And then, to top it all off we got the luckiest possible draw for the play-offs. Had we drawn a European team (ie. anyone else other than Iran), I would not have been over-confident as McCarthy always tended to go defensive when in a close game, a tactic that often backfired. Charlton, of course, was also very lucky for his first qualification.

The Charlton lucky theory again. We came top of our group with the most points - how is that lucky ? We drew with Scotland at home and Bulgaria lost to them - we accumulated more points than any other team. That's not luck. That's called a league table. First and only time an Irish team has topped a table in a qualifying round.

I still await your evidence that we'd go for a second rate "Brit" manager if Kerr was sacked. By you own admission the FAI rejected such managers when they went for Kerr. As far as I can understand your point is that we should stick with Kerr because (a) he's Irish and (b) he's Irish.

I'm not in favour of getting rid of Kerr and based upon what the FAI did with McCarthy he should be entitled to another campaign. McCarthy, by the way, is no more defensive than Kerr except that stupid move he had of playing 5 across the middle when we wanted to hold on to something and it seldom if ever worked.

**Lionel Ritchie** · 14/09/2005, 3:20 PM

well at least there's something to talk about here now that this nothing story about RK being "out the swiss game" has been abandoned.

I couldn't care less that Andy Townsend would cheer for England. As the guy was born and raised there I'd find it a bit odd if he didn't have some warmth for the place ...and to correct you -he's British AND Irish. It's called dual nationality. None of the other lads you mentioned "pretend" to be Irish. They're legally Irish and that's the end of it.

Do you think FIFA or UEFA just take players word for it that they're eligible to wear a national shirt?

I know what Hurling is -but beyond observing that it appears at times to be little more than a poorly marshalled riot I don't know the -ahem -finer intracacies of the game. Does that make me less Irish than Paudie McRedneck from the slopes of Sliabh Bawn? fcukin right it doesn't.

**brine3** · 14/09/2005, 3:34 PM

I have no problem with people born outside Ireland being Irish, like Kilbane or Breen, or even Scottish-Irish, like McGeady. But when someone who has never even so much as set foot in Ireland suddenly discovers that through a technicality they can acquire Irish citizenship and 'represent' Ireland, a country about which they know nothing and therefore cannot possibly 'represent', then I am not suddenly going to start calling them Irish just because it is convenient to do so.

It's very easy to criticise people who have a mixed background if you don't have one yourself. If you haven't been in their shoes, then I don't see how you could understand how the likes of Townsend or Aldridge feel and to be honest I don't think you have any right to criticise their Irishness. If Townsend and Aldridge were only playing for Ireland for convenience, then why have they continued to follow and support the Irish team long after their careers are over?

**Lionel Ritchie** · 14/09/2005, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by brine3

If Townsend and Aldridge were only playing for Ireland for convenience, then why have they continued to follow and support the Irish team long after their careers are over?

For that matter -until Dean Kiely came along -Aldo was the most recent UK born player to play for us who would've effortlessly walked into an English team. he mightn't have known it at the time when he was on (was it) Oxfords books ...but he could've done.

**pegan** · 14/09/2005, 3:50 PM

Based on the record of who applied for the job last time for starters. The main candidates other than Kerr were Brits like Robson or Aldridge who were then failing as managers (Totalfootball)

Funny, I thought Aldridge was Irish... but then again I thought Sean Og was from Cork.............

**OwlsFan** · 14/09/2005, 4:46 PM

Depends on your definition of a second-rate Brit manager. When Jack Charlton arrived he had success with Sheffield Wednesday in the lower divisions and Middlesborough in the 1st Division and had been hounded out of Newcastle so he would have been regarded by you, I suspect, as "second-rate". I agree Brian Robson would not have been the right man as he had no success at all. Is anyone who didn't win a championship second rate in which case unless we get Fergie, no British manager has won it since Graham - open to correction there, we'd have to settle for "second-rate". Still not sure that's a valid reason to keep someone.

Criticism comes with managing a team. Kerr has done ok. The gripes I've had with him are relatively small (Finnan instead of Reid in Paris when the French were there to be taken without their stars, the substitution against Israel when we were 2-0 by replacing a forward with a midfielder and continuing with Kilbane in midfield on the basis of one good performance there when he is not a midfield player). We're not a great side - we're badly lacking in the centre of attacking midfield but we've done ok. Too soon to be considering replacing him. Even if this one goes bottom up he deserves another campaign but without Keane in the middle, I can't see that one being too successful unless someone else comes quickly out of the woodwork.

I agree there won't be too many managers with high pedigree clambering for the job. Presumably the tops ones all have jobs.

Martin O'Neill is the only half decent manager I can think of who is out of work at the moment

**eirebhoy** · 14/09/2005, 5:06 PM

According to this his expected return is 8th October:
http://www.physioroom.com/news/engli...ec922fb78aa13b

**murtybyrne** · 14/09/2005, 9:43 PM

There was a statement on the Man Utd. Website to say they hope him to be back in 2 weeks.

http://www.manutd.com/news/fullstory...categoryid=120

**BobbySands** · 14/09/2005, 10:02 PM

Ever since Aldo's outburst at the man in the yellow hat against Mexico in the USA World Cup I've held the man in the utmost regard. Priceless television. Total dedication to the cause.

Having to explain what a taoiseach is ? Not that hard. A cunning opportunist with no regard for morals, truth, fair play or decency.

**Qwerty** · 14/09/2005, 10:29 PM

I think we are getting too complicated in a diffuse way, let's keep it simple. On paper Ireland has a stronger squad than the Swiss and the Israelis. Therefore it would be expected that a competent manager would bring Ireland to a 1st or 2nd place finish in this group. There really isn't any more to it than that.

Roy Keane is important but if we can't beat the Swiss at home without him we shouldn't be going to Germany. We did OK in Japan without him. He is one player, the manager will have to come up with a game plan to minimize his absence, that is what managers are for.

**Closed Account 2** · 14/09/2005, 10:40 PM

I've met Aldo several times, he considers himself to be Irish and always recalls with fondness his days playing for his (and our) national team.

**tricky_colour** · 14/09/2005, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by totalfootball

I have no problem with people born outside Ireland being Irish, like Kilbane or Breen, or even Scottish-Irish, like McGeady. But when someone who has never even so much as set foot in Ireland suddenly discovers that through a technicality they can acquire Irish citizenship and 'represent' Ireland, a country about which they know nothing and therefore cannot possibly 'represent', then I am not suddenly going to start calling them Irish just because it is convenient to do so.

Vinnie Jones is not Welsh, he's an Englishman who wasn't good enough to play for England,. Andy Townsend is delighted to see England win at football and to see English teams do well in Europe. This is normal - he's British, no matter how much some would like to think he's Irish. Wayne Rooney apparently has as many Irish grandparents as Aldridge, Cascarino, Morrisson and Holland put together, but he is a much better footballer, so he doesn't pretend to be Irish.

If people like Cascarino and Morrisson were Irish, they wouldn't need people to explain to them what hurling is or who/what the Taoiseach was. The fact that they do is because they're British, and there is nothing wrong with being British by the way.

So by your definition anyone who has just stepped off the banana boat or got out of the back of artic full of washing machines, and has been living in
Ireland for a few month's is a true Irish man, where as someone who
has Irish ancestry and genes going back as far as is on record is not Irish
if simply because they dpn't live in Ireland?

Your are not a slanty eyed Paddy Chang by any chance?