Question re Norn Iron

[Éanna]

Being a "P"here you are conscious of it & you don't want to attract any unwanted attention to yourself.

I'm absolutely astounded by that comment, I really am. As i said, I have many protestant friends, and none of them are in the least bit conscious of it. I just don't see it as an issue, and neither does anyone else I know

[Éanna]

Personally, as a Northern Protestant and unionist with a very small "u". I feel no allegiance to the Queen/Royals at all, so therefore I stand in silence in Windsor Park when it is played, as many others do it must be said. I would love a more representative anthem, that actually had something to do with the country, although it is quite a divisive issue amongst fans.

On the issue of flags again i really don't feel allegiance to any fleg it must be said, i kinda reckon most flags in NI/Ireland are somewhat tarnished by paramilitaries/sectarian violence, as someone mentioned earlier. It has to be said though the vast majority of flags at Windsor are the NI ones and not union jacks.

The best flag for NI i believe would be the IFA crest, which i've always thought was excellent, and it's good to see that so many people are starting to bring them to games rather than more political flags.

Finally, i don't know if anyone on here has seen the new NI top launched for the IFA's 125th anniversary. If not, the badge is based on the original all ireland badge from 1880, basically a cross of st patrick with a big harp in the middle. It just sums up the number of contradictions in NI society, when kids in loyalist areas run about in this top, yet its so 'Irish' looking.

I think its great by the way, i've worn it to the last two games, including the victory against engerland, so it must be a bit of a lucky charm. I'm superstitious in that way about football, so i'll be wearin' it to the next two games.

excellent post, some intriguing suggestions

[Macy]

I'm absolutely astounded by that comment, I really am. As i said, I have many protestant friends, and none of them are in the least bit conscious of it. I just don't see it as an issue, and neither does anyone else I know

Eanna, you said you went to a protestant school, so why should they?

In fairness this would be a slightly older generation, but just because you and me don't see it as an issue doesn't mean it isn't for them. The fact they feel they can't be open about it is surely enough sign to say it exists?

[Éanna]

Eanna, you said you went to a protestant school, so why should they?

In fairness this would be a slightly older generation, but just because you and me don't see it as an issue doesn't mean it isn't for them. The fact they feel they can't be open about it is surely enough sign to say it exists?

I did indeed, but not all my protestant friends would have gone there, and as I said, it just doesn't appear as an issue for ANYONE I know. I'm not saying it isn't an issue, if even one person feels that it is an issue, then it has to be addressed, I'm just surprised by it, thats all.

[Pablo]

I did indeed, but not all my protestant friends would have gone there, and as I said, it just doesn't appear as an issue for ANYONE I know. I'm not saying it isn't an issue, if even one person feels that it is an issue, then it has to be addressed, I'm just surprised by it, thats all.

i always knew you had a protestant odour about you! planter!

[Andyh]

Just with the discussion of Protestants in the South, some might find the figures below interesting.

Year Total Catholics Protestants Others % Catholic % Protestant
1891 3,468,694 3,099,003 356,786 12,905 89.34% 10.29%
1901 3,221,823 2,878,271 328,850 14,702 89.34% 10.21%
1911 3,139,688 2,812,509 311,461 15,718 89.58% 9.92%
1926 2,971,992 2,751,269 207,307 13,416 92.57% 6.98%
1936 2,968,420 2,773,920 182,746 11,754 93.45% 6.16%
1946 2,955,107 2,786,033 157,054 12,020 94.28% 5.31%
1961 2,818,341 2,673,473 129,644 15,224 94.86% 4.60%
1971 2,978,248 2,795,666 119,437 63,145 93.87% 4.01%
1981 3,443,405 3,204,476 115,411 123,518 93.06% 3.35%
1991 3,525,719 3,228,327 107,423 189,969 91.57% 3.05%

The sharpest fall came after 1908 and the Ne Temere decree, and obviously after partition in 1921-1922. I wouldn't really imagine that Protestant's living in ROI nowadays would have too many problems identifying with the country, could be wrong though as some posts on here have suggested. Personally my own family came from Mohill in County Leitrim, and then Clones, County Monaghan, before moving to the black north (around 1930s/40s).

[REVIP]

Just with the discussion of Protestants in the South, some might find the figures below interesting.

. I wouldn't really imagine that Protestant's living in ROI nowadays would have too many problems identifying with the country, could be wrong though as some posts on here have suggested.

The figures for the last Census gave a sharp rise in Protestant numbers

http://www.cso.ie/census/documents/vol12_t1_10.pdf:

The Church of Ireland, to which I belong, grew by 30%. The Presbyterians and Methodists by 100% - the Catholic proportion of the population is now around 88%.

I can't understand why any Protestant here would have a problem identifying with Ireland as their country. We moved down from the North to work seven years ago. The Protestants I have met are all proud to be Irish.

[lopez]

I've heard also that Protestant numbers are beginning to rise too. However I think this is down to immigration particuarly people from the North and those of non-Irish descent coming from Wales, Scotland and England as well as Latvians, Estonians and African Protestants. One of the saddest landmarks on the decline of Protestants in the 26C during the 20C is St Andrew's church behind Temple Bar. This is now a trourism centre. I first saw it last year and I was wondering whether things were so bad in Ireland that a Catholic church has been closed due to dropping numbers. But I was wrong.

Jews have also seen a sharp decline in numbers but on the other hand the numbers of muslims in Ireland has grown hugely. How many muslims were living in Ireland 10 years after partition. Possibly a couple of hundred at most I'd guess.

[dcfcsteve]

I've heard also that Protestant numbers are beginning to rise too. However I think this is down to immigration particuarly people from the North and those of non-Irish descent coming from Wales, Scotland and England as well as Latvians, Estonians and African Protestants. One of the saddest landmarks on the decline of Protestants in the 26C during the 20C is St Andrew's church behind Temple Bar. This is now a trourism centre. I first saw it last year and I was wondering whether things were so bad in Ireland that a Catholic church has been closed due to dropping numbers. But I was wrong.

Jews have also seen a sharp decline in numbers but on the other hand the numbers of muslims in Ireland has grown hugely. How many muslims were living in Ireland 10 years after partition. Possibly a couple of hundred at most I'd guess.

The demographics of countries are always changing, and have been literally since humans started settling in placed. 500 odd years ago Spain was largely a Muslim country and protestants didn't even exist. It's all very different now.

The religious composition of countries changes over time for a variety of reasons. So long as those changes are not the result of either actual or perceived discrimination, then it's just one of those things in life.

The Irish state's attitude towards non-Catholics has actually improved dramatically over the last 30 years. Note the changes on contraception, divorce, abortion etc. Any protestants that were in the state 30 or more years after partition are therefore unlikely to have moved away after then due to 'discrimination' or a feeling of alienation. If it had been such a big issue they would've moved before.

[big p from owc]

The vast majority of Derry City fans support the Republic. Each will have their own reason/mix of reasons for doing so, generally from the the following :

- A dislike of Northern Ireland fans.


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why would this be DCFCSTEVE ?

[dcfcsteve]

The vast majority of Derry City fans support the Republic. Each will have their own reason/mix of reasons for doing so, generally from the the following :

- A dislike of Northern Ireland fans.


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why would this be ?

Jeez Big P - I'm genuinely surprised you need to ask !

There's still a bigoted element within Northern Ireland's fanbase who see internationals as 'Ulster's Big Day Out'. This might be less evident on the terraces now than it was in the 80's and 90's, but those people haven't all gone away you know.

Regardless - there was for a couple of decades a very overtly sectarian element to Norn iron's support, which would've driven a lot of Derry City fans to support the Republic. Common sense should have suggested this.