Reenergising the forum / fans section

[John83]

I think John83 deciding to use the phrases twits & to cop on above betrays a mindset which is at best unhelpful here. There's hardly anyone left John, maybe not look down your nose so obviously at those who are still here & looking to try to save the thing ?

I get that. You might notice I also mentioned that I've been that idiot at times online. People get heated talking about some things. Sometimes any of us snaps off an angry response, and three pages of vitriol later a mod has to intervene and immediately starts getting abuse via pm. It's like getting angry at a referee when you did actually stamp on the guy. In that moment, you or I or whoever has lost the rag is being a twit and should cop on. We're all human. I don't hold any grudges, however petty some of the messages get.

The puns stuff and the 24 hours to produce a link stuff generally seemed a little harsh to me, though I haven't seen much of it recently. (I am biased though. I love a good pun. Or a bad pun. Maybe especially a bad pun.) In any case, I don't think the puns thing was ever really acted on as he relented and basically asked people not to overdo it. Since tets isn't here to say his piece it's maybe something to discuss again another time.

[Acornvilla]

Do you still need a fancy private email to sign up these days?

[pineapple stu]

Do you still need a fancy private email to sign up these days?

You do I think. Maybe that could be looked at - I'd imagine it's a barrier to joining, and it may be a reason posters are lost too. Look at Drummerboy in the forum here who hasn't access to the email any more and can't log in now (without setting up a second account)

I think the main point is on internet forums in general - they're definitely yesterday's toys, yet it's true people looking to get away from Twitter gives scope for them, and there's still active forums about the internet (maybe smaller than they used to be though?). Also agree Ireland being crap doesn't help. Those are external factors we can't do much about I think.

I think looking at the suggestions so far, a forum re-org seems a quick win. Unlikely to be game-changing, but not a reason not to do it. Maybe a suggestion -

Premier & First Divisions [to incorporate Underage Leagues]
(Sub-forum Predictions League)
Ireland
(Sub-forum Archived Match Threads)
Junior League
Other football [this to incorporate the current Irish League, Other Countries, World Cup, Football History, Women's Football, World League Football]
Off topic [this to incorporate Current Affairs and Other Sports]
Football Feeds
Support
Clubs (the existing archive of the old club forums)

That said - the Euro 2024 thread in World League Football got very little traction, maybe because it was missed in an unusual forum. Would the reorg above (so now there's only five main forums, which are the first-listed) really help? And maybe it would. But that's a question for posters who don't post in other forums I guess?

I think the moderation is mostly fine, but I think there's a difference between "Can we move on from the 'Is Sagnol racist or not' discussion" and "Don't discuss Sagnol". I think SkStu (?) made the point that two of the three binned posts from that thread were perfectly reasonable and I think it's a good example of discussion being shut down. People naturally get a bit annoyed about that, and sometimes people get a bit precious about being the subject of mod action too. There's definitely place for "Can we move on from the 'Is Sagnol racist or not' discussion" or the robbing players off the NI debate - stuff that had been done and was just clogging up the thread by going over well-trodden ground. And maybe it could even be split out to its own thread and be left to thrive/die/be ignored there away from the main thread.

Apart from that, the eonly real other suggestion seems to be some sort of social media presence. Is this something Adam would be ok with? (It's his forum after all!) Is it something someone would be ok taking on? What would even go on it? Is it just two posts a week saying "Loi week 22 fixtures are this weekend - discuss here!" or "Adam Idah linked with Celtic - discuss here!"?

[SkStu]

Premier & First Divisions [to incorporate Underage Leagues]
(Sub-forum Predictions League)
Ireland
(Sub-forum Archived Match Threads)
Junior League
Other football [this to incorporate the current Irish League, Other Countries, World Cup, Football History, Women's Football, World League Football]
Off topic [this to incorporate Current Affairs and Other Sports]
Football Feeds
Support
Clubs (the existing archive of the old club forums)

Apart from moving Football Feeds below Support (really minor preference), i'd agree.

Apart from that, the eonly real other suggestion seems to be some sort of social media presence. Is this something Adam would be ok with? (It's his forum after all!) Is it something someone would be ok taking on? What would even go on it? Is it just two posts a week saying "Loi week 22 fixtures are this weekend - discuss here!" or "Adam Idah linked with Celtic - discuss here!"?

I think exploring social media is a good idea too. I wonder if you could leverage Tets' twitter account for occasional pushes to his following...or some of the other characters that have a following (Kenny's Skids for example)... I deleted twitter a couple years ago but one or two accounts would have good reach and you might get some interested parties.

I like the idea of relaxing the requirement for a paid/private email account if it doesnt increase the security risk or doesnt result in significant additional admin time. If you are going to explore a push via SM, you'd want to make it as easy as possible when someone dares to click thru and wants to start punning quickly...

I'm happy to take on any role that might help out FWIW... I dont know how much time I have but i spend enough time on here anyway, how much more could it be?

[CraftyToePoke]

I get that. You might notice I also mentioned that I've been that idiot at times online. People get heated talking about some things. Sometimes any of us snaps off an angry response, and three pages of vitriol later a mod has to intervene and immediately starts getting abuse via pm. It's like getting angry at a referee when you did actually stamp on the guy. In that moment, you or I or whoever has lost the rag is being a twit and should cop on. We're all human. I don't hold any grudges, however petty some of the messages get.

The puns stuff and the 24 hours to produce a link stuff generally seemed a little harsh to me, though I haven't seen much of it recently. (I am biased though. I love a good pun. Or a bad pun. Maybe especially a bad pun.) In any case, I don't think the puns thing was ever really acted on as he relented and basically asked people not to overdo it. Since tets isn't here to say his piece it's maybe something to discuss again another time.

Your attitude was clear. As it is again in your follow up & its part of this problem.

I sent you a PM for an infraction over saying we could hire Ron Atkinson, which was clearly a joke to cool the temperature after a pretty divisive race related free for all. I merely stated it was clearly a joke. So I want to make clear the abuse via PM you're crying about wasn't from me.

That said I did see some PM interactions you had with another poster and you gave as good as you got and were happy to. Your condescending tone was not nice at all. That poster, if you notice hasn't been posting recently having been on here daily for years. Well played, great stuff. Another one down.

Everyone else is looking to improve this.
There's broad concensus the modding is out of date / part of the decline, yet you're just defensive & looking to point fingers at individuals. The overall problem remains & again there's mod micro focus in the wrong direction.

Didn't Tets make himself unavailable during pungate also ?
Happy coincidence.

I'd second SKStu for a Twitter feed.
The email point is interesting, I come across youngsters in my job who only communicate on socials & Facebook is something their parents have, no longer cool.
& fu ck it let's get a tiktok while we're at it. Do a few slut drops.

We don't need or want the masses & there is ample talent on here to make it interesting & grow, but collaboration will unlock that.

@dahmasta; is there budget for a short targeted socials advertising blast into relevant socials pages ?
Eireguide & that type, we all know the ones. I'll bet there are lads on those, putting up with them who do not know about this place & would favour it.

[John83]

I sent you a PM for an infraction over saying we could hire Ron Atkinson, which was clearly a joke to cool the temperature after a pretty divisive race related free for all. I merely stated it was clearly a joke. So I want to make clear the abuse via PM you're crying about wasn't from me.

You did send such a messsage; I wasn't talking about it and I agree it was harmless. I take it on good faith that you believe you made a joke, but you wrote "Tough news to take for all the racists on here", which got you reported by two different forum members because it's blatent trolling. And given there were already numerous requests to drop the topic from the mods, you are in fact the problem here.

That said I did see some PM interactions you had with another poster and you gave as good as you got and were happy to. Your condescending tone was not nice at all. That poster, if you notice hasn't been posting recently having been on here daily for years. Well played, great stuff. Another one down.

I did. If he'd like me to post the exchange, he can request it. I didn't start the exchange, and in spite of repeated invitations to ban him and the tone from his very first message - "bitch move" and "your little buddy" for example - I did nothing but move three off-topic messages to the bin. Including one from the poster he alleged I was sticking up for. I've seen this pattern online for years. Do people like him go up to a bouncer, call him a bitch, invite him to throw him out, and then insist they're just here to dance and then complain to management that the bouncer told him to **** off?

There's broad concensus the modding is out of date / part of the decline, yet you're just defensive & looking to point fingers at individuals.

There are inevitably some missteps, but I don't know that there is a consensus. The posters reporting your posts certainly thought something should be done, for example.

Didn't Tets make himself unavailable during pungate also ?
Happy coincidence.

He indicated he'd be away weeks ago. But sure, keep assuming the worst of him.

[osarusan]

(Kenny's Skids for example)

[SkStu]

hehe

[Acornvilla]

We've got a new manager now anyway, your work here is done lads

[pineapple stu]

Just need a bad result now so the bandwagon to sack him starts up again

[Acornvilla]

FWIW, I'm too dumb to have any great input but I agree with suggestions re reorganizing the forum a bit, consolidating to make it seem both less confusing and seem more active at once. In time if it feels like more sections are needed again, it could be looked at, before this thread was there a suggestion box/discussion area for people's ideas?

That and probably relaxing how easy it is to sign up, on top of even a very light social media presence could do a lot.

I assume you have very good reasons for rules re the sign up email. I myself read this forum for years and only signed up when I could use a college email. I now have my own private email because I use one for work, but otherwise I'd have had no way to join up. I think there was a system where you could refer a friend, I got outspoken in the door once upon a time when he was a youngfella who didn't have a private email that way, but that's all very convoluted and is a massive barrier to entry for your regular person who just wants to shout their football opinions at someone.

I have no input re moderating really, I've only recently started reading and contributing again. There are a few very salty posters here these days thou, the vibe can be a bit more sharp than it needs to be, but that's up to individual posters and their need to win a conversation, rather than the goal of having a conversation. How I deal with that personally is to just not reply to them and let them think they've won, because one day I will die and that is not how I want to spend the time I have on this earth.

I understand it is a hellish job, I'd personally never want the responsibility of moderating, no matter how clear rules are, words are always open to interpretation, and someone will always be upset, I think generally it's good to let conversation happen, and unless someone is being a *****, or relentlessly repeating a point that is getting a conversation nowhere to let things go. Stuff can meander off topic a bit, usually news breaks and threads will right themselves.

Ps. I think your swear filter/swearing rules are probably a good thing, I don't know how tightly it is inforced, or do people get in trouble for writing stuff that becomes ****, I swear a lot, I try not to swear at people as individuals thou

[dahamsta]

Keep it coming folks, this is good. The general discussion is very helpful, I could use this to come up with some proposals we could try to come up with a consensus on, and then starting doing stuff gradually, starting with a reorg I guess.

A couple of comments:

- I accept that some mods get a bit carried away, and that should be addresses. Just bear in mind that one in particular isn't here to defend himself at the moment. I do agree that puns shouldn't be a major problem, I didn't know that was a thing. I guess the problem may have been that puns can lead to wums?

- The email block is there for a genuine reason, if I deleted all the blocked domains the place would be absolutely inundated with spam. I actually have a policy of letting people in if they ask, I set them up with a temp email at my own domain and then update to their own email account when they've verified, but I'll have a look at the list to see if anything can be removed. To be clear though, it's not snobbishness, it's pure spam reduction.

[John83]

- I accept that some mods get a bit carried away, and that should be addresses. Just bear in mind that one in particular isn't here to defend himself at the moment. I do agree that puns shouldn't be a major problem, I didn't know that was a thing. I guess the problem may have been that puns can lead to wums?

This was quite a while back. I think a thread was nearly wall to wall puns on a player's name (Parrott, Scales, Cannon, someone like that?) for about two pages and tets lost his patience with it. He laid out a very hard line on it and relented after a bit of uproar. It mostly comes up in mild jokes at his expense these days. Someone correct me if I have any of that wrong.

[Acornvilla]

- The email block is there for a genuine reason, if I deleted all the blocked domains the place would be absolutely inundated with spam. I actually have a policy of letting people in if they ask, I set them up with a temp email at my own domain and then update to their own email account when they've verified, but I'll have a look at the list to see if anything can be removed. To be clear though, it's not snobbishness, it's pure spam reduction.

That's all fair, would there be a way to say, when someone tries and fails to sign up because they don't have the email required, that they are given a contact form to request access? How to let people know there is an easy way to join, without the email, but that won't promote spam is the secret sauce.

[pineapple stu]

That's all fair, would there be a way to say, when someone tries and fails to sign up because they don't have the email required, that they are given a contact form to request access? How to let people know there is an easy way to join, without the email, but that won't promote spam is the secret sauce.

Yeah - maybe even a note when you try sign up to that extent would be useful. (I've no idea if there is such a note to be honest!)

Ps. I think your swear filter/swearing rules are probably a good thing, I don't know how tightly it is inforced, or do people get in trouble for writing stuff that becomes ****, I swear a lot, I try not to swear at people as individuals thou

Back in the day it was needed because people were new to the internet and would quite happily tell each other to **** off you **** and stuff like that. It could easily get quite heated.

Nowadays we're all far more relaxed (well, most of us!) so casual swearing is in general tolerated, but telling someone to **** off still isn't. The swear filter is no harm to remind people of that I guess.

[John83]

Ps. I think your swear filter/swearing rules are probably a good thing, I don't know how tightly it is inforced, or do people get in trouble for writing stuff that becomes ****, I swear a lot, I try not to swear at people as individuals thou

I don't think I've seen any enforcement beyond the automated filter and am fine with that. It's a football forum. You'll hear worse in songs and yells at games.

[CraftyToePoke]

do agree that puns shouldn't be a major problem, I didn't know that was a thing. I guess the problem may have been that puns can lead to wums

Pungate had its own thread in Support here. Top of page two in this section, its still there. You had to rule on it after a mini uprising basically & it was for no other reason than the mod in question did not like them & felt in a position where his personal preference was how the forum would run. He then avoided the conversation for days when that didn't go well.

I'd ask anyone interested to scan page one of that thread & how tetsujin1979 spoke to posters & the attitude he adopted to the situation. It wasn't good.

That high handed mod carry on is deeply damaging.
It's not the sole issue but it will hamper any efforts to reinvigorate & whether he's here or not today, that remains the case.

[SkStu]

Keep it coming folks, this is good. The general discussion is very helpful, I could use this to come up with some proposals we could try to come up with a consensus on, and then starting doing stuff gradually, starting with a reorg I guess.

A couple of comments:

- I accept that some mods get a bit carried away, and that should be addresses. Just bear in mind that one in particular isn't here to defend himself at the moment. I do agree that puns shouldn't be a major problem, I didn't know that was a thing. I guess the problem may have been that puns can lead to wums?

- The email block is there for a genuine reason, if I deleted all the blocked domains the place would be absolutely inundated with spam. I actually have a policy of letting people in if they ask, I set them up with a temp email at my own domain and then update to their own email account when they've verified, but I'll have a look at the list to see if anything can be removed. To be clear though, it's not snobbishness, it's pure spam reduction.

In addition to Acornvillas viable idea to enhance the application form to include an area to add a typed request that has to include certain details, I’d be happy to review applications and be a spamhunter if it helps take the pressure off the limited few. I think the application process is important as it prevented me becoming registered for I’d say 2-3 years before I could get the right type of email address.

I also think a SM presence and a promo/push from other accounts will be important to get numbers up.

Not to pile onto my original posts but I went online yesterday about an hour or two after the new manager had been announced - YBIG had 250ish new posts; Foot had 46. Quality no better or worse; quantity massively different.

[CraftyToePoke]

@John83

Feel like this has veered towards you feeling attacked by me which wasn't my outset intention, it was more to highlight the possibility this approach & tone if applied as a stock response, does have the potential to make the place unattractive, as one aspect of a layered issue. You've focused on the individual exchanges rather than the overall. The tone remains and bizarre bouncer comparison tells its own story.

I realise I can split the room in a debate also


We've just appointed a new MNT manager and it hardly registered on here.

There's no value to what needs to be achieved by us continuing so I'm parking it.


............

To me its two fold, raise awareness of footdot to the correct demographic and throw a few quid at that. Although once a market leading brand, footdot has slipped from view sadly. If it works, repeat that in six months or a year.

Then let it flow more, without becoming a nonsense, that sweet spot where topics can drift temporarily if its interesting well written content. Be a bit more craic I guess.

Was at my younger brothers wedding last year, several of his boyos are ST holders and did not know of the forum. People not born or recently born in the heyday here are now out in the world as young adults, you have to compete, there has never been more online options, they aren't going to come looking for the place.

I spend a lot of time WFH online. If I can help the offer is there.

Also, once streamlined, can all lapsed members be emailed on their registration email with an invitation to take a look, might get a few legends back.

[BonnieShels]

Earlier this week I said to myself that I must pop onto Foot.ie sometime this week given it's Shels' first European game in 18 years. With that and Heimir's appt announcement yesterday I felt today was as good a time as any to pop on.

Seeing this thread at the top of the page when I logged on, is something else I must say. The serendipity of it all!

Thanks for the shout-out PStu and good point on my return a while ago. I can't actually remember what prompted either my return or why I didn't stick it out. (I must check my post history)

To add to the posts above, I was an hourly user of this site at its peak and indeed, at my peak.

I loved it. But there was a perceptible change in mood and tone and coupled with life getting busier and the forum coding changing, and making it more difficult to navigate and use the site on a phone, I fell out of the habit. And it's all about habit.

In the intervening years I had found myself on boards again, and up until they relaunched and crapped the bed, it was grand. But once they went down on relaunch that habit died too.

Recently I've been on Reddit, and its funny to see a couple of posters from here pop up there periodically.

Anyway, from my pov, it's always about habit and if I get out of the habit, that's the end of it.

One of the best things about this place was its more adult tone and the lack of keyboard-warrioring. Like CTP above, I've come to realise that what I liked before on the internet is what is still like.

Getting a permaban from r/ukpolitics for criticising the justification of State sponsored killing of Irish citizens in the North, was just somewhat of a wake-up call as to what discussion boards at their peak are like.

Anyway, I digress.

I like a lot of the suggestions above and would agree that some social media presence wouldn't be a bad thing, even if it's just a bot reposting popular thread periodically.

Giving the appearance of being busy would definitely help the place.

Anyway good to see you lot.

As an aside I think my biggest regret in all that time was missing out on the chance to lord it over Kingdom during the 6-in-a-row period. Dang.