We haven't become a bad team overnight

[paul_oshea]

what we were missing, i think everyone agrees was in the final third, a decisive pass through to duff, keane or morrision to run onto. WHy wasnt someone like mcgeady given a chance here, he should be always in the squad in my opinion and in a big game like this, could have been a great chance for him to shine. I think he might have done it too, surely he could have done no worse than doherty.

[Qwerty]

We all like to think and hope that Ireland are capable of beating anyone and to an extent they are if all the team play well and not just a couple of them.

What and when was the last good side that Ireland beat convincingly in a competitive game at home and away? We have been a tough team to beat for a long time but we also find it very hard to win against good teams.

( I underline convincingly as the 1-0 win over Holland in the last Work Cup qualifier was not convincing, it was a brave performance but we were very very lucky )

[dr_peepee]

I'm not sure everyone responded with such negativity. My view after the match was and still is (I hope a trawl of my posts doesn't disprove this):

(a) The difference between drawing and losing isn't that great if you're realistic about remaining results. Yes, we'd have some possible margin for error if we'd drawn but we still have what I would consider a better than evens chance of getting second. Not winning was the big disappintment.
(b) generally we put in a very good performance. My lasting image of the match was the French kicking long, inaccurate, hopeful punts straight out over the goal line.
(c) Robbie was brutal & short of match fitness. He can be a lot better.
(d) We miss a creative spark in the middle. For all KK's industry he was never going to penetrate Vieira & Makelele. But we'll rarely come up against such good defensive midfielders anywhere in the world.
(e) no Irish or British-style manager would have done anything else. Maybe a real quality coach like Guus Hiddink may have had something else to say but I think Kerr isn't to be faulted for Wednesday at all. Yes, we were predictable as Domenech said, but all Irish & British teams are in Europeans' eyes.

After the two games against Israel I was seething livid for days. After the French match I went to bed perfectly happy that 6 points will do the job.

I'm not for a secong ignoring the missed opportunities but it's an extremely achievable target. If you look on the bright side, a play-off will hopefully give us an interesting & memorable away trip.

I have to say I was very disapointed going to bed last wednesday. At the end of the day I was under no illusion as to the quality, player for player, of the French side so Henry's goal was no shock. I was disapointed in a number of other things.

There was too many long punts to our strikers. We don't have a Quinn or Cascarino so considering the size and physique of the French defenders as opposed to Keane and Morrison this was definately wasted posession . I think we were waiting on a repeat of Boumsongs hesitence against united. Robbie Keane was MUCK plain and simple.

As good as Roy Keane played I don't think he was used enough by our players. We could and should have retained posession much better using the likes of Roy and Andy Reid. A number of times I seen Roy and andy reid coming to recieve the ball and they were overlooked, which annoyed me considering they're the most comfortable in posession.

I'm aware the previous points are seeped in the benifit of hindsight, but one thing on Wednesday night that really got me going was the substitutions. While I didn't agree with it, considering he can't make the bench in an underperforming Norwich team, I could comprehend on some small level the logic of bringing on Doc for a bit of an aerial threat. In Kerrs defence every option at that point in the game was gonna bring criticism.

BUT for the life of me I can't understand why John O'Shea was moved to the middle when we were chasing a goal deficit. It still puzzles me. Had we been a goal up ourselves, Yeah. Maybe even playing for the draw, sure. But what was he going to offer?? Urgency, NO. Pace against a tiring french defence, NO. Penetration, NO. Bite, NO. A shot from distance, NO. I was fuming from my seat in the east terrace. Maybe you lads see something i don't in O'Shea. I dunno. Don't get me wrong it's not that I don't rate him. Just not for that job....

[TonyD]

what we were missing, i think everyone agrees was in the final third, a decisive pass through to duff, keane or morrision to run onto. WHy wasnt someone like mcgeady given a chance here, he should be always in the squad in my opinion and in a big game like this, could have been a great chance for him to shine. I think he might have done it too, surely he could have done no worse than doherty.

I watched the under 21 match on Tuesday, and McGeady didn't exactly set that game alight. I can't see any way he would have had a better impact on the senior game than the people who did play. I think a lot of people are getting a bit carried away with McGeady tbh. After all, he's still not a regular in the Celtic first time is he ?

[thejollyrodger]

what we were missing, i think everyone agrees was in the final third, a decisive pass through to duff, keane or morrision to run onto. WHy wasnt someone like mcgeady given a chance here, he should be always in the squad in my opinion and in a big game like this, could have been a great chance for him to shine. I think he might have done it too, surely he could have done no worse than doherty.

`

I dont know about all this underage stuff. Anyone who thinks the likes of mac geady and elliott are going to come on for ireland and produce a bit of magic are mistaken. Mac Geady isnt exactly setting celtic alight and he isnt going to be able to come on for Ireland. Elliott is battling for a regular place with Sunderland and he is far from 1 goal every two games. And Sunderland are bottom of the table in the English PL.

I dont think Mac Geady is in the same league as the likes of Duff. Elliott is all potential, nothing realised yet and he could turn into a flop.

Time reality was accepted. Mac Geady wont be playing next year in germany and elliott may have a part. Bringing young players to the higest level to early can smash their confidence for years.

Robbie Keane is a major worry. He has defintely fallen out of favour with Martin Jol and he isnt getting enough first team football. Robbie has never changed his game and its probably why he is so fustrating for managers. The lack of first team football degrades his sharpness, one of his best attributes.

France have earmarked Damien Duff and Kilbane as two very good players, they marked Duff off the pitch with 3 players all the time. The rate Kilbane and have done likewise. Wenger probably told the French national team everything they wanted to know. They had Landsdowne road all sussed thanks to the French rugby players. I dont think many teams in the future will be taken aback by the crowd.

[rodoman]

Duff was in probably in the worst position on the Landsdowne pitch as he has ever been with the three French defenders marking him having said that he's most effective when he is running on to a ball, and that didn't happen wed night, every time he got a pass it was to his feet, I'd say the French were thrilled with that I certainly wasn't. Even if he just had to stay on the last man, the French would have pulled another one to mark him, instead he was totally impotent where he was

[Stuttgart88]

Dr_Peepee, you had a great advantage over me in that you were actually at the game but I still think that at times the quality of our build up play was quite good. Robbie's lack of sharpnrss caused a lot of promising moves to break down.

I actually thought the French were more guilty of poor quality long-balls than us overall but in the second half I thought it was obvious that there was too big a gap between Roy Keane & the front two. Kilbane just isn't a catalyst to get the front two moving. Kavanagh, an intelligent user of the ball, was left on the bench. I'd agree with you that someone like that would have been better than O'Shea in midfield. This is why it's killing me that Miller is rotting away at Old Trafford & I'd have Alan Quinn in the squad all the time.

I was listening to a lot of criticism of Ericsson over here last week & it's been put to him repeatedly that you don't necessarily have to have your best players in your best team. The same applies to us. I think it's time to rethink the Keane-Kilbane midfield partnership as it'll never be good enough to penetrate top quality opposition, but then again it will probably be good enough against Switzerland.

By & large, I'd like to have all of our most creative players on the pitch at once (Duff, Reid, Kavanagh/Quinn/Miller) with two upfront but how do you accomodate this without leaving weaknesses elsewhere? I'm beginning to think that playing 3 at the back to play 3-4-1-2 might be the most balanced & creative use of who we have but I'm going to give it more thought before I commit to this. In hindsight though, it might have been the best way to approach the last 22 minutes of the game, especially with Henry & Zidane taken off.

Edit - added later: Maybe a simple Kavanagh in for Kilbane switch is what's missing. Kavanagh's composure on the ball and his range of passing would have brought something to the party. Kilbane could come off the bench to add energy when others tire.

But I'm not too disappointed because even a draw would have left winning the group as an outside possibility & I think we've got to be a good bet for 6 points still.

Separately, McGeady is so off his game at the moment that he most certainly isn't an option.

[wallis]

Hi everyone,

"we havent become a bad team overnight" - very true.

I was ever the optimist before the match that we were going to win and I thought our performance proved that it was possible - we were capable of winning. A few inches and Reids free kick is in off the post , a couple of Morrison efforts that might have flown is , if only , if only , if only.

We stiffled the french in midfield, our marking was superb and we didnt let them have a sniff barring some long range efforts. They tried to find a killer pass but it wasnt there. But as we talked about prior to the game , we dont have an Henry. We dont have someone to pull out that one bit of magic when needed. But its hardly the managers fault or that of the players. Everyone did their job to their upmost. Duff and Keane were disappointing but Duff was targetted specifically by the french and was kicked from pillar to post by Sagnol (which was the right thing to do !). Keane looked out of sorts but he was hardly given much ball and Gallas kept tight to him.

The JOS change ? seemed obvious to me. KK looked tired and being 1-0 whats the point in bringing in Doherty if you dont have the delivery to go with it. Harte came on , swung a couple of crosses and corners in but nothing came of it. IF Harte had crossed for a towering Gary D header would the manager be hailed a genius ?

But this also highlights Irelands current problem for me. Its not "who plays up front" or "should Oshea play in midfield" but instead its "what is our plan B ?"

When we are down by a goal what can we do to change apart from bring on a big man up front ? If we want to go for all out attack (like we will for Cyprus and the Swiss) how do we change it from Keane/Morrison ? The truth is we dont have a plan B we just throw on the big man and lump it.

Is it anyones fault though ?? what can we change ? our bench was a spanish second divison defender , a guy who cant get a game for norwich and some bit part players in average sides. We are thin on the ground in depth. France brought on a champions league winner amongst others and the luxury of losing henry and zidane. As much as we all like to pick and chose our teams we dont have many tools to work with and that sadly applies to the manager. He can only do so much with what he has.

We havent become a bad team overnight, that performance for my money beats the Swiss next month. What we have become is predictable and therefore easy to play against.

I know the issue of whether Kerr has the killer instinct is a hot topic but this is crunch time, this is when we will see if this is true - Ireland expects !

[Cowboy]

BUT for the life of me I can't understand why John O'Shea was moved to the middle when we were chasing a goal deficit. It still puzzles me.

My initial thought on this was that it was a mechanism to get Harte on and hope for a free kick around the box.

[dr_peepee]

My initial thought on this was that it was a mechanism to get Harte on and hope for a free kick around the box.

Yeah, I agreed with the logic of hopefully utilising Harte's assets and like i said I could even comprehend the thinking behind Doc's appearence, even if I didn't agree with it. But O'Shea should have been whipped off aswell rather than pushed into the middle for the simple reason was he was never going to offer us anything from the middle needed to pull back a goal deficit.

The JOS change ? seemed obvious to me. KK looked tired and being 1-0 whats the point in bringing in Doherty if you dont have the delivery to go with it. Harte came on , swung a couple of crosses and corners in but nothing came of it.

There's no denying that KK wasn't at the races on the night and needed a change, but was John O'Shea the man to replace him. Kilbane makes the most from limited abillity, and is all heart and work rate. His very presence in the team is to primarily act as a "water Carrier" for Keanes aging legs. At the end of the day, pound for pound, Kilbane hasn't got much on some of the "bit part players in average sides" that lined up on the bench on Wednesday. The fact Kerr replaced him with O'Shea, for me, compromised the reason Kilbane was selected in the first place. Again I point to the questions I asked in my first post in that what was John O'Shea going to offer? Urgency? Pace against a tiring french defence? Penetration? Tenacity? A shot from distance?

I just thought at that stage of the game Kavanagh or S Reid would've been a better option. Reids performance in the world cup was on my mind last wednesday approaching the final whistle. Sure, we may not have pulled it back but I would've left Landsdowne Road in the knowledge that we exhausted every avenue in search of a goal.

No matter what Brian Kerr did after Henry's goal though he was gonna get critticism from some armchair know nothing such as myself. Every decision had landmines so I fully support him. But it was like that feeling I get when I'm coping with my missus in all her complicated splendour. I get really frustrated at things/comments/acts that I can't understand even on some small level. And that's the case for me with John O'Shea finnishing the game in Midfield when we're chasing a goal.

[thejollyrodger]

Looking back I think we did alright as well. ZiZu was kind of quite when he missed the free. He never looked like contributing a goal after that IMHO. I think Kerr got a lot of things right at the back tatically seeing that henry could really punish us with his pace. Fair enough we didnt press them upfront which probably cost us but at the end of the day, henry just got a yard of space in the entire game and he is a great player.

We are really suffering now that Roy is past his best, we never had great team and Roy rallied everyone to do what they had to do. We've probably sunked to the natural level without him now or almost as low. The last world cup reminds me of Everton when Rooney left, they did terrific last season but really dropped this year. There is no subsitute for world class players and there is only so much a manager can do.

The fact that we still dont have youth development on par with that of France and havent our own league properly developed is pretty pathetic when you hear people complaining why we arent doing it at international level.

No we havent become a bad team overnight, more of our players are playing at priemership level but we have fewer world class players in key positions to drag the whole standard of play up. We can still make the playoffs though. Providing we have everyone fit when the choclate makers come over.

Our only hope is to properly invest in youth and address our massive shortcomings both technically and physically.