Rubbish

[Jolly Red Giant]

Robbie was underappreciated in Ireland for a lot of his career, despite being one of the top international goal scorers of all time (21st on the all time list alongside Luis Suarez). Winning the Israeli league won't change that perception much for reasons footballing and otherwise, but for Robbie it's just more winning.... he has a knack for it. Hoping he takes a step up now and manages somewhere in Europe ('real' Europe, not makey uppy Eurovision-type Europe).

Keane may have scored a lot of goals - but he did it at a level below the top strikers - the list you link to is really not relevant to the standard the strikers were playing at.

As I said before - Keane was a very good player - and imo should have actually been better. He always tended to chase the money.

Example - at Liverpool Keane played a total of 28 games and scored 7 goals (in a team with not a lot of striking options) and was gone within six months. John Aldridge was a year older (29) than Keane when he was signed as Liverpool's replacement for Ian Rush - in his two full seasons he played 92 games and scored 60 goals - this despite the fact that Rush returned to Liverpool the following season - Rush is four years younger than Aldridge), winning the title and the FA cup. Furthermore, Liverpool were banned from Europe at this time because of Heysel. Aldridge went on to become the first non-Basque player to play for Real Sociedad, being the club's top scorer for the two seasons he played there.

Despite being Ireland's top scorer - I wouldn't even rate Keane as the best striker Ireland ever had. In my view that honour should go to Jimmy Dunne who scored 13 goals in 15 games between 1930-1939 (international games were few and far between in the 1930s) - Dunne scored 143 goals in 173 games over seven seasons for Sheffield United in the top division and he later won a league title with Arsenal. Cliff Bastin, one of the greatest ever English players ever, said of Dunne that he was 'one of the best five centre forwards I have ever seen'.

For me - I would prefer any of Dunne, Davy Walsh, Don Givens or Frank Stapleton in an Irish team ahead of Keane - imo they brought much more to the team than Keane ever did (and two other underrated players would also come into the mix here - Michael Robinson and Shane Long).

Politically - Keane has always run with the hares and chased with the hounds - and he is currently doing that in Israel. He is managing a big club in a small pond and what he has done before Israel was lacklustre to say the least. This will pad his CV - and maybe if he can repeat next season he will get an offer at a bigger club. But I suspect he will eventually be caught out for the spoofer that he is. I think that his ultimate goal is to manage in the MLS - when he was playing there Keane and his wife attempted to create an entire spin-off series of promotional businesses (like the Beckhams) and it didn't come off for them - he could try chasing the almighty dollar again by managing in the MLS. Don't be surprised to see him pop up at Inter Miami or one of the two LA teams.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Keane is in the top 20 Premier League goalscorers since it's inception. Whatever about his post career job choices (questionable) or his managerial ability (unproven), his position as our best ever striker to date is not in any doubt.

Keane is in the top 20 goals scored - but that doesn't make him one of the top 20 strikers ever in the PL. In my opinion he wouldn't even be in the top 50.

Robbie Keane scored 129 goals in 349 games in 16 seasons playing in the top division

Jimmy Dunne scored 153 goals in 201 appearances in 10 seasons in the top division - Jimmy Dunne is the best striker ever to play for Ireland.

John Aldridge scored 88 goals in 147 appearances in 4 seasons in the top division in England and a further 33 goals in 63 appearances over 2 season in La Liga (a total of 121 goals in 210 appearances in 6 seasons in the top division in England and Spain)

Robbie Keane couldn't hack it in Italy only making six appearances without a goal in 5 months in Serie A

Keane's best season in the PL was 16 goals in 36 games for Spurs - in his last 5 seasons in the PL he scored the mighty sum of 13 goals in total.

Aldridge scored 23 goals for Oxford in his first season in the old First Division - scored 17 in his second season with Oxford and Liverpool and then had two seasons with 26 and 21 goals and then 17 and 16 in his two seasons in Spain. Except for one year when he scored the same number as Keane's best season, Aldridge outscored Keane every year he was playing in the top division in England and Spain.

Next on the list - Frank Stapleton scored 136 goals in 458 appearances in 14 seasons in the top division in England

Andy McEvoy scored 84 goals in 163 games for Blackburn over 7 seasons in the 1960s - in 1963-64 he scored 32 goals, second only to Jimmy Greaves who scored 35 (including 5 penalties - McEvoy didn't take penalties) - the following season he was joint top scorer in the league with Greaves with 29 goals. McEvoy was world class (many rated him better than George Best in the 1960s) - but homesickness and injuries resulted in a difficult time in England. He returned to Ireland in 1967 and spent 5 years playing for Limerick, before becoming manager of Bray and playing a major role in them becoming a LOI club.

Again - Keane was a good striker - and he should have been better, but he was too focused on chasing the money - but he was not the best, either skill wise or by the stats.

[tetsujin1979]

Keane is in the top 20 goals scored - but that doesn't make him one of the top 20 strikers ever in the PL. In my opinion he wouldn't even be in the top 50.

Robbie Keane scored 129 goals in 349 games in 16 seasons playing in the top division

Jimmy Dunne scored 153 goals in 201 appearances in 10 seasons in the top division - Jimmy Dunne is the best striker ever to play for Ireland.

John Aldridge scored 88 goals in 147 appearances in 4 seasons in the top division in England and a further 33 goals in 63 appearances over 2 season in La Liga (a total of 121 goals in 210 appearances in 6 seasons in the top division in England and Spain)

Robbie Keane couldn't hack it in Italy only making six appearances without a goal in 5 months in Serie A

Keane's best season in the PL was 16 goals in 36 games for Spurs - in his last 5 seasons in the PL he scored the mighty sum of 13 goals in total.

Aldridge scored 23 goals for Oxford in his first season in the old First Division - scored 17 in his second season with Oxford and Liverpool and then had two seasons with 26 and 21 goals and then 17 and 16 in his two seasons in Spain. Except for one year when he scored the same number as Keane's best season, Aldridge outscored Keane every year he was playing in the top division in England and Spain.

Next on the list - Frank Stapleton scored 136 goals in 458 appearances in 14 seasons in the top division in England

Andy McEvoy scored 84 goals in 163 games for Blackburn over 7 seasons in the 1960s - in 1963-64 he scored 32 goals, second only to Jimmy Greaves who scored 35 (including 5 penalties - McEvoy didn't take penalties) - the following season he was joint top scorer in the league with Greaves with 29 goals. McEvoy was world class (many rated him better than George Best in the 1960s) - but homesickness and injuries resulted in a difficult time in England. He returned to Ireland in 1967 and spent 5 years playing for Limerick, before becoming manager of Bray and playing a major role in them becoming a LOI club.

Again - Keane was a good striker - and he should have been better, but he was too focused on chasing the money - but he was not the best, either skill wise or by the stats.

Yeah, a 20 year old should have been able to get at least one of Ronaldo, Recoba, Vieiri, or Sukur out of the starting XI

[Jolly Red Giant]

Yeah, a 20 year old should have been able to get at least one of Ronaldo, Recoba, Vieiri, or Sukur out of the starting XI

A 20-year old chasing the money - it was one of a series of decisions he made during his career that was dictated by money and not by what would make him better.

[Razors left peg]

A 20-year old chasing the money - it was one of a series of decisions he made during his career that was dictated by money and not by what would make him better.

Can I ask whats wrong with trying to make money? We all do it. I moved to the US to make more money, I've left jobs for other jobs that offered me more money. Why is that a bad thing?

[tetsujin1979]

A 20-year old chasing the money - it was one of a series of decisions he made during his career that was dictated by money and not by what would make him better.

Do you that he would have learned more by staying with Coventry, who were relegated the season Keane moved to Italy, than he would at Inter Milan?

[EalingGreen]

[Andy] McEvoy was world class (many rated him better than George Best in the 1960s)

By "many", you mean the sports desk of the Irish Independent c.1965, perhaps?

Anyhow, you can cite statistics which suit your case, and disregard those which don't.

But while Andy McEvoy may have been a very fine - and underrated - striker indeed, to compare him with the teenaged Best when he (McEvoy) was 8 years older and at/near his prime is ridiculous. :

Unless, of course, you're talking about a different George Best to the one who won the 1968 Ballon d'Or aged 22 yrs 7 mths. (Only the Brazilian Ronaldo was a younger winner, and Lionel Messi by a few months when he first won it).

Again - Keane was a good striker - and he should have been better, but he was too focused on chasing the money - but he was not the best, either skill wise or by the stats.

So tell me, was it the "money" which caused Keane to turn out 146 times for ROI over an 18 year career, since I'm not aware that international footballers ever got more than a nominal fee and decent expenses etc?

Ok, as a Spurs fan, I'll readily admit to being biased about Robbie's worth as a player generally etc. But I cannot for the life of me understand why so many ROI fans are even slightly ambivalent about his career for his country, since by every single, objective measure, it was quite simply outstanding.

Oh that he's been born 100 miles to the north, he'd have made a great back-up for David Healy!

[seanfhear]

By "many", you mean the sports desk of the Irish Independent c.1965, perhaps?

Anyhow, you can cite statistics which suit your case, and disregard those which don't.

But while Andy McEvoy may have been a very fine - and underrated - striker indeed, to compare him with the teenaged Best when he (McEvoy) was 8 years older and at/near his prime is ridiculous. :

Unless, of course, you're talking about a different George Best to the one who won the 1968 Ballon d'Or aged 22 yrs 7 mths. (Only the Brazilian Ronaldo was a younger winner, and Lionel Messi by a few months when he first won it).

So tell me, was it the "money" which caused Keane to turn out 146 times for ROI over an 18 year career, since I'm not aware that international footballers ever got more than a nominal fee and decent expenses etc?

Ok, as a Spurs fan, I'll readily admit to being biased about Robbie's worth as a player generally etc. But I cannot for the life of me understand why so many ROI fans are even slightly ambivalent about his career for his country, since by every single, objective measure, it was quite simply outstanding.

Oh that he's been born 100 miles to the north, he'd have made a great back-up for David Healy!

We like to whinge about whingers (wink) !

Robbie's whinging on the field was too whingey for some of us.

[EalingGreen]

We like to whinge about whingers (wink) !

Robbie's whinging on the field was too whingey for some of us.

So if Cristiano Ronaldo had been born Christy O'Ronald in Maddockstown, rather than in Madeira, you wouldn't have wanted him playing for you?

[Razors left peg]

So tell me, was it the "money" which caused Keane to turn out 146 times for ROI over an 18 year career, since I'm not aware that international footballers ever got more than a nominal fee and decent expenses etc?

Ok, as a Spurs fan, I'll readily admit to being biased about Robbie's worth as a player generally etc. But I cannot for the life of me understand why so many ROI fans are even slightly ambivalent about his career for his country, since by every single, objective measure, it was quite simply outstanding.

Oh that he's been born 100 miles to the north, he'd have made a great back-up for David Healy!

People also forget that Robbie turned up to play for us the week his father passed away when no one would have complained about him missing the game. While he was playing at LA Galaxy he flew home for every game when at that stage of his career it would have been easier for him to step away (and from experience of that flight on a fairly regular basis, the distance is a pain in the hole even if youre flying in business class).

Robbie could never be accused of not being committed to play for us and none of that was about money.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Can I ask whats wrong with trying to make money? We all do it. I moved to the US to make more money, I've left jobs for other jobs that offered me more money. Why is that a bad thing?

Do you that he would have learned more by staying with Coventry, who were relegated the season Keane moved to Italy, than he would at Inter Milan?

Keane was going to make a big money move anyway - and he should have picked a destination that maximised his ability to fulfill his potential - instead he tried to maximise his pocket. He signed a 5 year contract with Inter for a reputed £2.4 million a year (that was 24 years ago). He was on £10K a week at Coventry. While he is not the most intelligent of people, Keane still later recognised that he made a mistake joining Inter.

The reality is that Robbie Keane failed at the highest level (Inter, Liverpool, even Leeds who were riding high at the time) - despite being a very good player he was always below the top level (and while he never might have attained that level - he certainly didn't help himself by the choices he made).

[Razors left peg]

Keane was going to make a big money move anyway - and he should have picked a destination that maximised his ability to fulfill his potential - instead he tried to maximise his pocket. He signed a 5 year contract with Inter for a reputed £2.4 million a year (that was 24 years ago). He was on £10K a week at Coventry. While he is not the most intelligent of people, Keane still later recognised that he made a mistake joining Inter.

A footballer has a short career and is always only 1 bad injury away from it all going away very quickly. Why shouldnt they maximize how much money they can make in that short period. Maybe dont spend so much time counting other peoples money and being seemingly bitter about it, its not a good look.

Robbie was a fantastic footballer who gave his all for his country, Im delighted for him that he was also able to make great money and give his family a better life by doing so!

[Jolly Red Giant]

By "many", you mean the sports desk of the Irish Independent c.1965, perhaps?

Jackie Carey - all-time Irish legend who was manager of the Irish team at the time, in 1965when McEvoy topped the goalscoring charts with 29 goals and George Best scored 10 goals in 41 games for Man Utd winning the title - said of Andy McEvoy 'George Best has the potential to be world class, Andy McEvoy is world class'

Anyhow, you can cite statistics which suit your case, and disregard those which don't.

What statistics did I disregard ?

In George Best's best season he scored 28 goals - the year Man U won the European Cup - less than McEvoy scored in 1965.

But while Andy McEvoy may have been a very fine - and underrated - striker indeed, to compare him with the teenaged Best when he (McEvoy) was 8 years older and at/near his prime is ridiculous. :

Unless, of course, you're talking about a different George Best to the one who won the 1968 Ballon d'Or aged 22 yrs 7 mths. (Only the Brazilian Ronaldo was a younger winner, and Lionel Messi by a few months when he first won it).

To be clear - I never claimed that Andy McEvoy was a better player than George Best - perhaps a better goalscorer. Like Best, McEvoy never really fulfilled his potential - while Best was clambering after the limelight, McEvoy hated it and he hated being away from home. He had to be coaxed to Blackburn by Jackie Carey while he was manager there - and Carey had to repeatedly coax him back to England throughout McEvoy's time with Blackburn. He left Blackburn in 1967 when he was 29 years old because he just did not want to be there anymore - and he ended up far happier driving a truck and playing part-time for Limerick. At 29 years of age Best was also playing in the LOI - or the likes of Dunstable Town - I suspect that Andy McEvoy was a far happier man.

This is not to take away from George Best - he was an incredible talent - a talent lost because he couldn't handle the fame and Man U couldn't manage the situation for him

So tell me, was it the "money" which caused Keane to turn out 146 times for ROI over an 18 year career, since I'm not aware that international footballers ever got more than a nominal fee and decent expenses etc?

Robbie Keane milked every game he played for Ireland for as much boosting his image that he could get.

Ok, as a Spurs fan, I'll readily admit to being biased about Robbie's worth as a player generally etc. But I cannot for the life of me understand why so many ROI fans are even slightly ambivalent about his career for his country, since by every single, objective measure, it was quite simply outstanding.

Because he is one of the most annoying individuals ever to pull on an Irish jersey - he is way too full of himself and up his own rear-end. That is not to take away what he achieved (and he was still not the best striker to play for Ireland - Jimmy Dunne was) - but man, Keane is a pain.

I live in hope that one day Evan Ferguson will obliterate Keane's records with Ireland - Ferguson has the real potential to be world class (and hopefully he will achieve it).

[Jolly Red Giant]

A footballer has a short career and is always only 1 bad injury away from it all going away very quickly. Why shouldnt they maximize how much money they can make in that short period. Maybe dont spend so much time counting other peoples money and being seemingly bitter about it, its not a good look.

True - but this reminds me of the Billy Beane character in Moneyball when he said 'I made one decision in my life based on money and I swore I would never do it again'. Every decision Robbie Keane made and continues to make is based on money.

Robbie was a fantastic footballer who gave his all for his country, Im delighted for him that he was also able to make great money and give his family a better life by doing so!

Still not Ireland's greatest ever striker - Jimmy Dunne was - an argument maybe for being in the top five - but I wouldn't even put him there.

[Razors left peg]

True - but this reminds me of the Billy Beane character in Moneyball when he said 'I made one decision in my life based on money and I swore I would never do it again'. Every decision Robbie Keane made and continues to make is based on money.


Still not Ireland's greatest ever striker - Jimmy Dunne was - an argument maybe for being in the top five - but I wouldn't even put him there.

Whatever about what a guy said in Moneyball, I moved to America based on a money decision and I've since moved around jobs for money and in every single case I've done the right thing and it's worked out well... so let's not judge Robbie on a line from a movie.

As for saying he's not a top 5 Irish striker, that an opinion so ridiculous that it would make me question whether you even know what sport we are talking about

[tetsujin1979]

I'm very tempted to wipe the last few pages.
Very. Tempted.

[Razors left peg]

Hang on, JRG you said that Jimmy Dunne was Irelands greatest ever striker.

https://www.arsenal.com/historic/players/jimmy-dunne

What was it about him that makes you say that? Did you grow up watching him

[EalingGreen]

Jackie Carey - all-time Irish legend who was manager of the Irish team at the time, in 1965when McEvoy topped the goalscoring charts with 29 goals and George Best scored 10 goals in 41 games for Man Utd winning the title - said of Andy McEvoy 'George Best has the potential to be world class, Andy McEvoy is world class'

"Football manager bigs up player" - hardly an earth-shattering headline, is it?

Anyhow, in 1964/65, Best was a teenaged winger, while McEvoy was 27, going on 28 i.e. at or approaching his prime. The comparison is simply not valid.

Meanwhile, do you know who topped the First Division scoring charts the following season (1965/66)? To save you googling, it was Willie Irvine of Burnley and NI, with 29 goals. This contributed to his 78 goals in 126 league games for them, all in the First Division, a rather better scoring rate than McEvoy's 89 in 183 (some in the Second Division?).

Now I wouldn't begin to mention Irvine in the same breath as Best when it comes to footballing greatness, nor could you ever consider him "world class". But his record is at least as impressive as McEvoy's. And imo, Keane was better than both of them, including at international level, where he was undeniably streets ahead.

In George Best's best season he scored 28 goals - the year Man U won the European Cup - less than McEvoy scored in 1965.

Best played as a winger in a team which included Charlton, Law and Kidd. Considering the next highest scorers were Charlton and Kidd, jointly with 15 (Law was hampered by injury), that return, combined with being their joint highest goalscorer in the European Cup, was probably why he was voted European Footballer of the Year. What comparable awards/recognition did McEvoy ever receive?

To be clear - I never claimed that Andy McEvoy was a better player than George Best - perhaps a better goalscorer. Like Best, McEvoy never really fulfilled his potential - while Best was clambering after the limelight, McEvoy hated it and he hated being away from home. He had to be coaxed to Blackburn by Jackie Carey while he was manager there - and Carey had to repeatedly coax him back to England throughout McEvoy's time with Blackburn. He left Blackburn in 1967 when he was 29 years old because he just did not want to be there anymore - and he ended up far happier driving a truck and playing part-time for Limerick. At 29 years of age Best was also playing in the LOI - or the likes of Dunstable Town - I suspect that Andy McEvoy was a far happier man.

This is not to take away from George Best - he was an incredible talent - a talent lost because he couldn't handle the fame and Man U couldn't manage the situation for him

Nope, you've lost me. For I can't see how a comparison between Best and McEvoy, no matter how facile, says much (anything?) about Robbie Keane.

Oh and btw, it wasn't the fame which Best couldn't handle, it was the drink.

Robbie Keane milked every game he played for Ireland for as much boosting his image that he could get.

Aye, for let's face it, flying back from LA to play in friendlies against Gibraltar, Latvia and Georgia etc really enhanced his image, keeping him right up there in the sporting pantheon alongside the likes of Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Lewis Hamilton and Lionel Messi

Because he is one of the most annoying individuals ever to pull on an Irish jersey - he is way too full of himself and up his own rear-end. That is not to take away what he achieved (and he was still not the best striker to play for Ireland - Jimmy Dunne was) - but man, Keane is a pain.

Ah right. So he likes himself a bit too much for your taste.

Presumably you wouldn't have the likes of Zlatan, Ronaldo or Cantona in one of your teams, either.

I wonder what Chris Hughton thinks of him?

[Jolly Red Giant]

"Football manager bigs up player" - hardly an earth-shattering headline, is it?

Anyhow, in 1964/65, Best was a teenaged winger, while McEvoy was 27, going on 28 i.e. at or approaching his prime. The comparison is simply not valid.

Best was being touted as the greatest thing since sliced bread - read the quote

Meanwhile, do you know who topped the First Division scoring charts the following season (1965/66)? To save you googling, it was Willie Irvine of Burnley and NI, with 29 goals. This contributed to his 78 goals in 126 league games for them, all in the First Division, a rather better scoring rate than McEvoy's 89 in 183 (some in the Second Division?).

Willie Irvine was a damned good player - not on the same level as McEvoy or Best - but very good nonetheless. McEvoy only played 4 games outside the top division (scored 2 goals).

Now I wouldn't begin to mention Irvine in the same breath as Best when it comes to footballing greatness, nor could you ever consider him "world class". But his record is at least as impressive as McEvoy's. And imo, Keane was better than both of them, including at international level, where he was undeniably streets ahead.

One season of goals - when Burnley came 3rd. Keane may have been better than Irvine (I would agree with that) - McEvoy is a different story. They were two completely different types of players - and McEvoy has zero ego - he just wanted to get on with the game when he was on the pitch. Now many Irish players of the period felt that McEvoy wasted his talent - but McEvoy never wanted to play football in England, never wanted fame or money, for him football was something to be enjoyed with your friends on a Saturday afternoon. But none of that detracts from the talent that he had.

Best played as a winger in a team which included Charlton, Law and Kidd. Considering the next highest scorers were Charlton and Kidd, jointly with 15 (Law was hampered by injury), that return, combined with being their joint highest goalscorer in the European Cup, was probably why he was voted European Footballer of the Year. What comparable awards/recognition did McEvoy ever receive?

Again - what is your issue - I have said that Best was the better footballer - but maybe McEvoy was a better goalscorer

Here is the only clip that I think is available of Andy McEvoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCZ_8HbuvIk

Nope, you've lost me. For I can't see how a comparison between Best and McEvoy, no matter how facile, says much (anything?) about Robbie Keane.

I made a passing comment and you have been running with it since.

So he likes himself a bit too much for your taste.

Yes - he is full of himself

Presumably you wouldn't have the likes of Zlatan, Ronaldo or Cantona in one of your teams, either.

Can't stand Ibrahimovic or Ronaldo - but Cantona has an eccentricity about him that I like.

And by the way - doesn't mean I wouldn't pick any of them or Keane in a team - it depends on what else is available.

I wonder what Chris Hughton thinks of him?

Well Chris Hughton doesn't have an ego - and he has never signed players with big egos - but you would have to ask Hughton himself for an answer to that question. Hughton does praise players when he thinks it is appropriate as he did so with Keane while coaching at Spurs. But it is interesting that when Keane was strongly linked with a move to Newcastle while Hughton was manager, Hughton quickly dismissed it out of hand.