The Big Question?

[tonycuna]

Yes, Kilbane-Roy is not the best partnership, but in my opinion the huge lack is the absence of a tall forward like Niall Quinn (and this isn't a BK mistake..)

[Kevin77]

McCarthy had a better central midfield partnership (keane + Kinsella/holland), a tall striker to play the long ball game and a more experienced team overall.

Kerr hasn't done anything bad. It's the players. Kerr hasn't played them in funny formations or stupid positions ala McCarthy, 352, Keane as sweeper, Kennedy in a free role.
Kerr has played the strongest lineup in the strongest formation in most of the games.

The problem with this team is the centre of midfield. Kilbane was found out last night. He didn't pass the ball at all last night and was partly the reason why Duff never got into the game.
Keane is no longer the driving midfielder that he once was.

I don't see how replacing Kerr is going to get anymore out of the team.

Agree with you 100 %. Kilbane is fine against weakened sides (ala France in Paris) and weaker teams in general, but he's not even up to Premiership standard in terms of being a composed central midfielder. Keane (whilst fantastic defensively) can only do one part of his job and cant now bomb forward and drive the team on like he was able to do until a couple of years ago.

We have been spoilt for as long as I've been alive for central midfielders (Brady, Mc Grath, Lawrenson, Whelan, Townsend, Keane to name a few), but we are now at the stage where our realistic options are:

Keane - still good, but this will be his last campaign\
Kilbane - plays out wide for Everton - nothing more than a workhorse
Holland - an average Premiership central midfielder
Kavanagh - a journeyman professional that has reached the Permiership too late

If we had another central midfielder like those listed above (from the past, ie. Whelan) to play alongside Keane we would be in a better position.

As for last night, Given was world class. The defense were fine (not sure how we'll deal with the loss of Cunningham). Dunne was fantastic and definitely gives us hope. Duff was quiet compared to what we expect from him. Andy Reid did enough without being great. Kilbane was very poor. Keane was great, but had too much to do. Morrison did a reasonable job, but you cant help but feel that a top class finisher might have put away the half chance he clipped just wide. Robbie Keane looked very far off the pace...(was it a result of a Friday night on the beer or an extended break for Spurs?).

My biggest concern was Kerr's substitution and in particular bringing on Gary Doherty. Why? He couldn't get a game upfront for Norwich last season, even off the bench. It was a cop out and an admission that we'd run out of ideas.

In my opinion, Robbie Keane should have been withdrawn around 60 - 65 mins as he was having a negative impact (ie. every time we passed to him he lost the ball or his marker beat him to it, hence we had less options) and Elliot should have been introduced. At least he would have been lively and may have poached something.

Gary Doherty is an extrememly poor imitation of what used to work (at times) for Ireland. Just because he is reasonable in the air and has nicked goals against terrible opposition, does not mean that he's a tactical solution in such a big match.

I can't really argue with bringing on Harte as we needed to get Kilbane off. Maybe Stephen Reid might have been more dynamic than O'Shea...plus he is now playing regularly for his club in central midfield.

In fairness to Kerr though, his options are very limited at best. Outside of the starting XI, he doesn't have a player who can come on and pull a trick.

I really don't know whether he is the right man for the job. We were unlucky yesterday. But I think throwing away the points in Israel and again at home to Israel (where he went negative after Robbie Keane came off) is probably where the real damage was done

[NeilMcD]

I was a big supporter of kerr before he got the job and I still think he can do the job but here is a few points. I think the type of game that he wants us to play is very tactical and I am not too sure if that plays to our virtues. There are only a few players on our team thjat can play like that, Finna, Keane, Reid, Cunningham, Duff. I think the bottom line is if we finish outside the top 2, he should go and I think he will. If we qualify he will stay on and if we go out in a play of thats where it becomes a fifty fifty call in my view.

I think Martin O Neill would be a great move if Kerr went after but my preference is that we qualify via the playoffs with a good away performance and a great night in Lansdowne. and Kerrs leads us to the World Cup.

[colster]

Agree with you 100 %. Kilbane is fine against weakened sides (ala France in Paris) and weaker teams in general, but he's not even up to Premiership standard in terms of being a composed central midfielder. Keane (whilst fantastic defensively) can only do one part of his job and cant now bomb forward and drive the team on like he was able to do until a couple of years ago.

We have been spoilt for as long as I've been alive for central midfielders (Brady, Mc Grath, Lawrenson, Whelan, Townsend, Keane to name a few), but we are now at the stage where our realistic options are:

Keane - still good, but this will be his last campaign\
Kilbane - plays out wide for Everton - nothing more than a workhorse
Holland - an average Premiership central midfielder
Kavanagh - a journeyman professional that has reached the Permiership too late

If we had another central midfielder like those listed above (from the past, ie. Whelan) to play alongside Keane we would be in a better position.

I agree we've nearly always had one great CM to hand the baton onto the other.
I think if we had a Ronnie Whelan now we'd be in a great position.

[Stuttgart88]

Our central midfield creates little & is merely a vehicle to get the ball wide, which is where our strengths are. It's a major deficiency in our game which we couldn't overcome last night. We get too few goals from outside the box.

If only Liam Miller could have maintained his Lyon & Anderlecht form from 2 years ago. That's what's really missing.

[Roverstillidie]

If only Liam Miller could have maintained his Lyon & Anderlecht form from 2 years ago. That's what's really missing.

is that code for him moving to manure for a few extra quid being a disaster?

[Stuttgart88]

is that code for him moving to manure for a few extra quid being a disaster?

It's not code for anything other than I wish Liam Miller turned out to be the player I hoped he'd be 2 years ago! I've never needed to disguise my belief that the MUFC move was a terrible decision.

[monutdfc]

Great post Kevin77, I'd agree with pretty much all of that.
Except that I am 100% in favour of Kerr. Yes, he has made mistakes, as outlined in this thread. McCarthy made mistakes in his first and second campaigns too. He learned on the job and that experience helped him later on. Kerr is surely learning too and will not make the same mistakes again one would hope.

[colster]

Yes, and after Keane retires, things may look even grimer in that department. I don't fancy a Kilbane-Holland partnership. What a pity about Miller, Healy, etc.

Holland might retire too!!

I think we have a few central midfielders coming up

Glenn Whelan at Sheff Wed
Darren Potter at Liverpool
Joey O'Brien at Bolton.
Garvan at Ipswich.

We should look at getting them involved in some friendlies.
A few that could be tried there

O'Shea,
C. Healy
Miller
S.Reid
A.Quinn

I think we should look at how to getting Andy Reid in a more central role. I think he has good vision and range of passing and also is capable of scoring from outside the box.

After this WC regardless of whether we get through or not we should give the manager the licence to build for the next one. If that means we don't do much in the EC Qualification then so be it.

[Stuttgart88]

Except that I am 100% in favour of Kerr. Yes, he has made mistakes, as outlined in this thread. McCarthy made mistakes in his first and second campaigns too. He learned on the job and that experience helped him later on. Kerr is surely learning too and will not make the same mistakes again one would hope.

I've tried to draw a response on this question in the past but nobody has offered an opinion: surely it's not all about Kerr? In Chris Hughton he has an extremely highly qualified deputy (one of only a handful of UEFA Super Licensed coaches working in the UK), with experience of playing at this level. Hughton also works for Jol who seems to be a pretty progressive coach.

(a) why can't Hughton share some of the flak and (b) does he have any infuence in tactics / selections / substitutions?

I'd only get rid of Kerr if an obviously better candidate was available. Martin O'Neill probably fits the bill but it's hard to think of anyone else. I'd have Kerr over the Peter Reids and Bryan Robsons of this world any day. I'd like to think he'll recover from his errors too but one thing is against him in my view - I don't think he's very lucky! Domenech did exactly what we'd have slated Kerr for doing last night by subbing Zizou and Henry straight after the goal.

[Reality Bites]

Kerr is like McCarthy was for the WC 98 campaign, a trainee manger learning the ropes.. why can't we just get the right man for the right job at the right time, forget this trail period, its costing us places in major championships for ****sake.

[Kingdom]

I'd like to think he'll recover from his errors too but one thing is against him in my view - I don't think he's very lucky! Domenech did exactly what we'd have slated Kerr for doing last night by subbing Zizou and Henry straight after the goal.

Excellent point and one that not many have responded too either.

[superfrank]

Poll, poll, poll!!

Should he stay or go??

I think the only realistic replacement is David Leary. But I think he deserves more time.

[Kingdom]

I was thinking about this all the way home last night. Should he stay/go? Will he have his contract renewed etc?

The thing about last nights match was that no other manager would have got a different result with the players available. What could have been done differently? Not a lot in my opinion.

For this reason I would like to see him have another campaign. As others have pointed out there aren't many people around who we'd be happy with, especially if the last bunch of applicants are anything to go by. It's not our way to go sacking managers when we don't qualify for Championships either.

In my opinion there is a big need for rebuilding (both in terms of tactics and personnel) after this campaign. Centre midfield will need to be looked at as RMK won't be there, Holland may not be around and Kav would not be the way forward in terms of the future.

Something that is annoying me is the unbalanced look to our team. We simply do not get the ball wide enough further up the right hand side of the field. This is not a criticism of Andy Reid, he did ok last night(his set-pieces were atrocious but thats another matter), but he is not the solution to our problems on the right- it only adds to them.

I think some big decisions need to be made. If we stick to 4-4-2, then its a case of picking the best players for those positions, which would mean that someone like Reid or John O'Shea would lose out, rather than picking our best 11 players and making them play out of position.
The other option is to pick the best 11 players and formulate a formation which suits those players and the teams interests best.
For example, last night we picked Andy Reid on the right hand side which I don't believe is a solution. Do we sacrifice a striker in allowing Andy Reid/Damien Duff to have a floating attacking role??
Keane and Morrison were brutal up front last night. Absolutely muck. But where are the alternatives? When Doherty came on the French back looked under even less pressure. The only reason I can see for having Morrison up front is for the long ball option. Surely Elliot is just as good in link up play or in the box as Clinton.

Going back to centre midfield. It is inevitable that RMK will quit.
Here are the options: Kilbane, Holland, Kav, O'Shea, Miller, Alan Quinn, Steven Reid, Andy Reid.
Then there are the youngsters, Glenn Whelan and Potter , perhaps even Joey O'Brien.
If we fail to qualify then the friendlies that we would play would have to be used to test out pur options in midfield. I have liked Alan Quinn when he has played for us and he has done nothing wrong. I don't think Kav is the way forward for us and tbh neither is Holland. KK was poor last night and perhaps will signal the end of his midfield days as his ball retention was disgraceful for a EPL player. He has done well for us in the past and I like him, but perhaps we could try him at left back.

Early days but a combination of Alan Quinn, Steven Reid or Andy Reid for the Summer friendlies wouldn't be too much to ask for would it?

Also why are we so poor around set pieces? Corners, free kicks, even throw ins, we show little invention. It really grates.

[brine3]

Kavanagh is great at taking corners and set pieces. I would have picked him ahead of Kilbane last night.

[Closed Account 2]

^ me too, but he's a bit short of match practice at the moment.

Im big fan of Kav though and think he's a very underrated player aggressive, committed, never gives up and never afraid to mix it up a bit. As you say he's got a good pass on him and a crisp shot, pity he's so old. But I think he can do the job for Euro 2008 qualification.

[diogoSanchez05]

ya he has to go if we don't qualify.
he's too cautious as a manager. Its ok playing cautiously with u 18 teams but
when it comes to senior international standard, you have to set the team up right with a balance between defence/attack

[Tony Montana]

I think if we had a Ronnie Whelan now we'd be in a great position.

Don't know about that...saw him on the box the other night,he's a bit rough around the edges!

[harps1954]

If we don't qualify, I agree it's time for Kerr to go. I have always felt that he has been out of his depth at this level. I am not taking away from what he has done with under-age teams over the years, he has worked miracles considering the size of our country.

But in every one of the big games under his guidance at senior level we have failed to deliver. We led against Russia at Lansdowne in the Euro qualifiers only to concede an equaliser. A victory in this game would have seen us guaranteed a play-off spot. We then went to Switzerland, and the least said about that game the better. In these World Cup qualifers, we have led against Switzerland (away) and Israel twice, and still didn't pick up the full three points once. Against the French away we got what we would all have been happy with before the game and no-one can doubt that this was certainly a point gained. Last night, we were unlucky, but last night isn't the game that will cost us qualification - it'll be the games against Switzerland and Israel.

Time for Kerr to go if we don't qualify - I think so.

People say that McCarthy was given three campaigns to get it right - which is correct. But on each of the occassions that we failed to qualify for a Championship under McCarthy, we at least made the play-offs. Under Kerr, in two campaigns, that might not even happen. McCarthy remember had to build a team during his stint as Manager, Kerr has bascially only added Andy Reid (and to some extent Clinton Morrision) to the team which he inheriated from McCarthy. Finally, people also say that this is Kerr's 'first real campaign' as our failure to qualify for the last Euro Championships was down to McCarthy. As I said above, a victory over Russia at Lansdowne (under Kerr) would have qualified us for the play-offs. We threw away a one-nil lead that day - that wasn't McCarthy's fault now, was it.

[jbyrne]

theres no getting away from the fact that we just dont have the players at the moment and thats not kerrs fault. i shudder to think at who the fai would appoint instead of him....... wasnt brian robson the preffered canditate for some the last time... enough said!