Mason Melia F St Pats b.2007

[CSAD]

Robbie Keane had just turned 17 when he scored twice on his debut for Wolves, not much different to Melia who will be 17 in September. What do I expect from a young player to think he's special? I'm not sure but the great ones usually stand out and right now I'm not sure Melia does.

Oh god, having to go back to 1998. I think that all but confirms the evidence behind you're argument isn't very strong.

I think I've already pointed out the evidence to you in regards to the 3 strikers I mentioned that at a similar age they didn't stand out. Any young player that does stand out at a young age usually stands out because they are playing with other kids which isn't the case with Melia.

[CSAD]

One thing you have to know when debating with CSAD is that he's always right. It makes things a lot easier to go with that starting point.

I thought 16-year-old Lamine Yamal looked special playing senior football at the Euros in the summer btw. Spain have had a number of players like that lately - Ansu Fati, Gavi, Pedri. Wayne Rooney was 16 when scoring from 30 yards to end Arsenal's long unbeaten run. 16-year-old Cesc Fabregas was a regular for Arsenal not long after. Jude Bellingham was a regular for Birmingham at 16.

Melia's doing fine but he has 5 goals in 42 games in a poor league. It's not exactly earth-shattering. But best of luck to him obviously; one to keep an eye on.

Because usually I am right, I use facts/logic and evidence to back up my arguments which usually means I'm right.

Nice one, 6 players listed and only 1 play's in Melia's position and even then you had to go back over 20 years to find him! Btw Fabregas hadn't played a minute in the PL at 16 for Arsenal ya clown

But the point is the 3 strikers I mentioned earlier, actually good examples as they play in a similar time and each are similar in terms of build and style of play, weren't earth shattering either...the overall point is judging a 16 year old's potential at this age is almost pointless as there is so much development ahead. Most 16 year olds dont play 42 games at senior level at 16, regardless of the standard....that's what's impressive.

[Olé Olé]

Trying to figure out some of the points Melia's doubters and detractors are making.

Standard of the league - How many 16 year old strikers are there in League Two, National League or Scottish Championship?

Physical or technical qualities - What impact will puberty and more coaching have?

He's being tracked for his potential. Not for what he is doing now. And the fact that he can hold his own in this league at this age appears to indicate that he has some potential - to people actually paid to identify potential...

[Eirambler]

CSAD - given that the argument being put forward here is simply that Melia has shown nothing at this point to suggest that he is a generational talent, why don't you provide some counter evidence to suggest that he is, in fact, a generational talent and then we can take it from there?

[Supreme feet]

The reasons to be optimistic about Melia are that he's scored lots of goals for Ireland at underage level, he's been trusted to play senior men's football at 16 by successive managers at Pat's, and he's being linked strongly with EPL clubs. If he was, to the trained footballing eye, a bit of a one-paced plodder and a poor finisher, this wouldn't be the case. He could kick on next year and score 15+, then 20+ the year after, then go abroad, make an immediate impact, and become a senior international before his 21st birthday.

He could also become the next Eamon Zayed.

Kaylem Harnett is doing very well for Wexford at 17. Did well for the Irish U17s in the Euros too. It doesn't mean he's going to amount to anything. Same with Romeo Akachukwu, Ike Orazi and Naj Razi. It'd be great if they all came through to senior level, but we've been here before - for every highly-rated young player who comes through to deliver on their promise, there are more like Richie Partridge, Graham Barrett, Shaun Thornton, Conor Clifford, Conor Henderson, Owen Garvan, Aaron Connolly, etc, to give just a few examples, who all looked outstanding at underage level and even senior, in some cases. Development isn't always linear and we can't assume anything.

Also, while we can't write off someone so young, we can't assume that a 16 year-old player is going to be great because 'x, y and z-players were mediocre at 16 and turned out to be world-class.' There are thousands of mediocre journeyman plodders in the world who were also starting regularly and 'doing okay', at a comparative level to LOI, in their teens.

[Olé Olé]

CSAD - given that the argument being put forward here is simply that Melia has shown nothing at this point to suggest that he is a generational talent, why don't you provide some counter evidence to suggest that he is, in fact, a generational talent and then we can take it from there?

There's a bit of a range here. RLP has stated some opinions that go a bit further than he "has shown nothing at this point to suggest that he is a generational talent."

[CSAD]

CSAD - given that the argument being put forward here is simply that Melia has shown nothing at this point to suggest that he is a generational talent, why don't you provide some counter evidence to suggest that he is, in fact, a generational talent and then we can take it from there?

Well first and foremost, what has he NOT done that is stopping him from being generational?

Well nothing because it's very rare that you spot a generational striker at 16 years of age, genius. The issue with the point you are making is you are already writing off a 16 year old from being generational...when you look at the players that have been pointed out by Pineapple & RLP the fact they must go back to 1998 and 2002 to find a striker who was playing regularly at a high level at 16 years of age just shows how rare it actually is and how its impressive that Melia is doing it now.

So ill ask the question again, what is Melia NOT doing that's stopping him being a potentially generational level already?

[CSAD]

The reasons to be optimistic about Melia are that he's scored lots of goals for Ireland at underage level, he's been trusted to play senior men's football at 16 by successive managers at Pat's, and he's being linked strongly with EPL clubs. If he was, to the trained footballing eye, a bit of a one-paced plodder and a poor finisher, this wouldn't be the case. He could kick on next year and score 15+, then 20+ the year after, then go abroad, make an immediate impact, and become a senior international before his 21st birthday.

He could also become the next Eamon Zayed.

Kaylem Harnett is doing very well for Wexford at 17. Did well for the Irish U17s in the Euros too. It doesn't mean he's going to amount to anything. Same with Romeo Akachukwu, Ike Orazi and Naj Razi. It'd be great if they all came through to senior level, but we've been here before - for every highly-rated young player who comes through to deliver on their promise, there are more like Richie Partridge, Graham Barrett, Shaun Thornton, Conor Clifford, Conor Henderson, Owen Garvan, Aaron Connolly, etc, to give just a few examples, who all looked outstanding at underage level and even senior, in some cases. Development isn't always linear and we can't assume anything.

Also, while we can't write off someone so young, we can't assume that a 16 year-old player is going to be great because 'x, y and z-players were mediocre at 16 and turned out to be world-class.' There are thousands of mediocre journeyman plodders in the world who were also starting regularly and 'doing okay', at a comparative level to LOI, in their teens.

But again you are just proving my point, when you try find comparable players the detractors need to pick a player that is either A. Playing in another position or B. Must go back over 20 years to find a player who IS playing in the same position. It's clutching at straws and just further proves how impressive it is Melia is holding down a starting position at 16.

The point is its very rare that even a generational player can be picked out at 16 years of age, because of what Yamal has done this season people seem to think its normal for a 16 year old to look top class at that age but it isn't. But then you forget about the amount of players who DO make it playing at this level as teenagers, the overall point is compare to other top strikers around today Melia is doing just as good if not better than most at a similar age, not just the 3 strikers I mention but even players like Haaland.

[Supreme feet]

To say 'Mason Melia is going to be elite level and a generational talent' is an extraordinary claim. To quote Christopher Hitchens, 'an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence.'

Melia has a lot going for him, but he certainly hasn't done anything extraordinary, at this point. If what RLP is saying is true, that he's not very quick and doesn't seem to be a clinical finisher, then you'd have to worry about his ceiling. I'd like to hear opinions from Pats fans who watch him every week. I thought he was okay for the U17s, but Orazi was much more of an attacking threat.

[Eirambler]

Well first and foremost, what has he NOT done that is stopping him from being generational?

Well nothing because it's very rare that you spot a generational striker at 16 years of age, genius. The issue with the point you are making is you are already writing off a 16 year old from being generational...when you look at the players that have been pointed out by Pineapple & RLP the fact they must go back to 1998 and 2002 to find a striker who was playing regularly at a high level at 16 years of age just shows how rare it actually is and how its impressive that Melia is doing it now.

So ill ask the question again, what is Melia NOT doing that's stopping him being a potentially generational level already?

Ok, so just to be clear about where we stand. I don't think he's shown anything to suggest he's a generational talent. You've taken an issue with this, so I've asked you to provide examples of where he has shown that level of potential. And you haven't provided any.

Melia is playing first team football in Ireland because he wants to move to the UK and can't until he's 18. If that wasn't the case he'd be playing underage football in England at this point like countless others before him. There's nothing different about him to Idah, Parrott, Connolly and many others, other than that international transfer rules post Brexit have delayed his preferred career route.

[pineapple stu]

No player at 16 is going to look special playing senior football if the criteria you are setting is for them to dominate....that simply is never going to happen.

Nice one, 6 players listed and only 1 play's in Melia's position and even then you had to go back over 20 years to find him!

Your comment I was responding to is above. No mention of position or era. So you're simply wrong to say "No player at 16 is going to look special playing senior football" - Yamal did just that playing at a much higher level.

There's others if I trawled through wiki I'm sure - Aguero played senior football at 15, Endrick had more goals than Melia by his age and again at a much higher level. He'd already signed a pre-contact with Real Madrid too.

But there's enough there to disprove your point I think. Which isn't to write Melia off at all. But the LoI is a poor league and that needs to be taken in context el rather than just judging a guy by his age

[CSAD]

To say 'Mason Melia is going to be elite level and a generational talent' is an extraordinary claim. To quote Christopher Hitchens, 'an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence.'

Melia has a lot going for him, but he certainly hasn't done anything extraordinary, at this point. If what RLP is saying is true, that he's not very quick and doesn't seem to be a clinical finisher, then you'd have to worry about his ceiling. I'd like to hear opinions from Pats fans who watch him every week. I thought he was okay for the U17s, but Orazi was much more of an attacking threat.

You've only just joined the conversation and you're already putting words in my mouth!

I wouldn't consider starting for a senior team as a 16 year old as pretty extraordinary...if we are worrying about a 16 year old for not scoring goals at senior level already then that just goes to show how big a prospect he is as we already have a high bar off expectations.

His u17 record is pretty good, its as good as the likes of Hojlund, Ferguson, Sesko at least unless of course we have a higher level of expectation for Melia to hit than we had with these players!

[CSAD]

Your comment I was responding to is above. No mention of position or era. So you're simply wrong to say "No player at 16 is going to look special playing senior football" - Yamal did just that playing at a much higher level.

There's others if I trawled through wiki I'm sure - Aguero played senior football at 15, Endrick had more goals than Melia by his age and again at a much higher level. He'd already signed a pre-contact with Real Madrid too.

But there's enough there to disprove your point I think. Which isn't to write Melia off at all. But the LoI is a poor league and that needs to be taken in context el rather than just judging a guy by his age

Okay that's great.

Again having to go back 20 years, not really doing you're argument much good there I'm afraid. Oh nice job you finally found a modern player, so basically Melia has to hit Endrick numbers otherwise he's not a generational talent I think is what I'm getting from this argument.

I've already given you the context from players like Hojlund, Ferguson, Sesko...whatever you think of the LOI what Melia has done is still better than anything these 3 have done.

[CSAD]

Ok, so just to be clear about where we stand. I don't think he's shown anything to suggest he's a generational talent. You've taken an issue with this, so I've asked you to provide examples of where he has shown that level of potential. And you haven't provided any.

Melia is playing first team football in Ireland because he wants to move to the UK and can't until he's 18. If that wasn't the case he'd be playing underage football in England at this point like countless others before him. There's nothing different about him to Idah, Parrott, Connolly and many others, other than that international transfer rules post Brexit have delayed his preferred career route.

Playing first team football as a 16 year old would be a good start, I've provided plenty, its not my fault you're illiterate.

There is plenty different, he's playing first team football at 16 years of age, I've already asked you a question which you have yet to provide...what is he lacking, writing off a young players potential ceiling at 16 is a huge statement so I would hope the evidence for it is equally strong.

[Buckett]

Playing first team football as a 16 year old would be a good start, I've provided plenty, its not my fault you're illiterate.

These kind of statements are probably the reason that nobody values your opinions

[Eirambler]

Playing first team football as a 16 year old would be a good start, I've provided plenty, its not my fault you're illiterate.

OK that's me out of this conversation, and to be honest all future conversations that involve you. I clearly noted the reason why him playing first team football in Ireland at 16 is different to those that came before him (they'd already left the country, so couldn't), so I don't think it's in my direction any concerns regarding literacy need to be directed.

[CSAD]

OK that's me out of this conversation, and to be honest all future conversations that involve you. I clearly noted the reason why him playing first team football in Ireland at 16 is different to those that came before him (they'd already left the country, so couldn't), so I don't think it's in my direction any concerns regarding literacy need to be directed.

You should have left ages ago, its clear you're knowledge on the topic of youth development isn't very good.

Well unless you can get into a portal that goes to an alternate dimension that shows what these players would be doing in an alternate reality then maybe Ill entertain the idea, until then no thanks.

[Razors left peg]

CSAD you must be very young or something, your attitude comes across that way. Here's the thing, no one can prove one way or another that their opinion is right on this, all we are both doing is looking at what he's done to this point and drawing different conclusions. I brought up Robbie in 1998 because he's our last generational talent that we have had, Ferguson has shown flashes and I do think he is going to be fantastic but even with him there's no guarantee at this point.

No one is writing off Melia, but some of us also haven't seen special with him on the football pitch and are judging him on that.

[The Fly]

This...will be a generational thread!

[Acornvilla]

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