What we need to happen

**Dan K** · 07/09/2005, 9:54 PM

Right, off the top of my head in order for us to get a play off place, we need:

1) To beat Cyprus by as many goals as we can possibly muster, but at least 2.
2) Beat the Swiss by at least 2.
3) The French to beat the Swiss.

If 3) doesn't happen, we need to hope we put a shed load (at least 3 without reply) past the Swiss.

Correct?

Acheivable?

I 'kin hope so.

**Jon'o** · 07/09/2005, 9:58 PM

its not about goal diffrence is it though but the results against the tied teams?? correct me if im wrong or mildly drunk????

**concanta** · 07/09/2005, 10:01 PM

the way i understand it is if we win our last 2 games
we get playoff place as we would of beaten the swiss and are ahead of israel
what happens if the swiss beat france 1 0 and then we beat the swiss 2 0
who wins group - the results of the games do not apply
surely it is goal difference in games between the top 4
and that would have us on top....i know i am clutching at straws and may be incorrecy

**Dan K** · 07/09/2005, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jon'o

its not about goal diffrence is it though but the results against the tied teams?? correct me if im wrong or mildly drunk????

Ah ********.

Forgot about that.

**davey** · 07/09/2005, 10:25 PM

feelin v pessimistic atm, so switzerland at home looks like a massive hurdle. I'll always keep hoping but I think we can kiss goodbye to Germany. Even if we can win our last 2 games - I can't see us winning play-off

**Dan K** · 07/09/2005, 10:28 PM

I really need to see the rules to get my head around this.

Still, if you're right, then I feel much better than I did an hour ago!

**liam88** · 07/09/2005, 10:51 PM

What's the significance of ghow many goals we put in past Switzerland (at least 2) is it because of goal difference or what?

**Tram_14** · 07/09/2005, 11:29 PM

"England lost to a team ranked lower than Rwanda and Lebanon".

He HE HE HE HE HE HE, Oh how it helps the pain, Morphine to my soul. I Love banana skins.

**Colm55** · 07/09/2005, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

Lads, as sad as it has made me tonight, we have achieved nothing in this pathetic group. We don't deserve to qualify. We aren't going to Germany. Time to get over it. But at least we lost to former (recent) World Champions. England lost to a team ranked lower than Rwanda and Lebanon.

Tough paddy, i agree, We shackled their no.1 playmaker and henry got one shot on goal, (and scored) and we could not produce a performance to win the game, failing to hold on to the (this is tough half jarred) first half displays against isreal, and not dispatch the french garcons tonight, i whole heatedly agree that we do not deserve to go, en ce moment, hopefully we can redeem ourselves in the remaining matcheas. but only time will tell.....

**gspain** · 07/09/2005, 11:32 PM

2 wins is not an unrealistic target and would almost certainly guarantee us the playoff.

Cyprus away will be tricky now without Keane, Reid and Morrison. However we still should have enough to win there. We owe the Swiss big time.

If Switzerland beat France then we have a target to win the group. A 1-0 Swiss result is of course the best if unlikely.

Anythign can happen in the playoffs we could get Slovakia, Bosnia or England and have a fantastic chance of going through. we could of course get the Czechs or Spain and be up against it.

**rfkimble** · 07/09/2005, 11:43 PM

any1 hav a link 2 uefa/fifa tie break rules for the groups. i cant find it anywhere on their sites. cheers

**tetsujin1979** · 07/09/2005, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by gspain

Cyprus away will be tricky now without Keane, Reid and Morrison. However we still should have enough to win there. We owe the Swiss big time.

Kavanagh or Steven Reid to come in for Keane
Steve Finnan (or Steven Reid if he doesn't come in for Keane) to come in for Andy Reid
Elliott should get his first competitive start in place of Morrisson

**geysir** · 08/09/2005, 1:53 AM

Its getting worse, it could turn out to be another finals where we have to end up supporting Scotland.

**Stuttgart88** · 08/09/2005, 7:37 AM

Originally Posted by totalfootball

Thinking about this a bit more, and it has just occurred to me that if we win our last two games, we will finish at least second if France don't lose to Switzerland OR if France lose 1-0 to Switzerland. Switzerland beating France 1-0 would in fact be the best result for us as it would also leave us with a chance of winning the group if we beat the Swiss by two or the Cypriots by five.

Originally Posted by gspain

2 wins is not an unrealistic target and would almost certainly guarantee us the playoff.

If Switzerland beat France then we have a target to win the group. A 1-0 Swiss result is of course the best if unlikely.

Thank God somebody else around here is actually bothered to look at the facts. Pretty much regardless of the result last night, beating Switzerland was always going to be key anyway.

Defeat is far from the end of the world. I don't think Switzerland will get anything from France - I fancy France to win there by a couple. In that case even a draw last night would have meant we'd have had to beat France's goal difference (unlikely) to win the group on 20 points.

So it's probably not worth bemoaning not getting the draw. Not winning was the big disappointment. I'm largely indifferent to a draw / defeat in the cold light of day.

Second place is still very much alive and, as totalfootball says, a narrow Swiss win over France re-opens the door to win the group.

I don't think either of our remaining games will be easy but I reckon we've probably got a better than evens chance of 6 points. What are the bookies saying?

**Danny** · 08/09/2005, 8:04 AM

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/releas..._090604_en.pdf

Qualifyin rules on Page 6

**JamesB** · 08/09/2005, 8:39 AM

I would have agreeed with Stuttgat88 before the game. Draw or loose we sill have to beat the Swiss to qualify so a loss is no big deal.
But the performance last night has really taken away my confidence in this team.

**Wiseguy** · 08/09/2005, 8:45 AM

If we hadn't fcuked up against Isreal twice then we wouldn't be in this situation.This has to be one of the weakest Irish sides in years and although i hope i am wrong i can't see us beating the Swiss and they are sh1te.I don't think Kerr is the man for the job and i never did as he seems to be tactically nieve.

**VinnyL** · 08/09/2005, 8:45 AM

yea last night doesnt change a thing... we still have to win our last two games!!!

**paul_oshea** · 08/09/2005, 9:15 AM

Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

Lads, as sad as it has made me tonight, we have achieved nothing in this pathetic group. We don't deserve to qualify. We aren't going to Germany. Time to get over it. But at least we lost to former (recent) World Champions. England lost to a team ranked lower than Rwanda and Lebanon.

here paddy, you changed your attitude awful quickly, just as often as a hoor changes her knickers. wheere is the blind optimism as per usual/???

it really has begun to annoy me that people here were **** sure we would win, cos i never felt it and no one beleived me.

**TerryPhelan** · 08/09/2005, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

it really has begun to annoy me that people here were **** sure we would win, cos i never felt it and no one beleived me.

I believed you. I expressed as much when I started the France Prediction thread.

I can't understand how people can expect some glorious 2-0 or 3-0 to be plucked out of the air against a reinforced French side full of world class players, purely on the back of empty notions such as 'home advantage', 'guts' or 'heart'. As last night showed, we are simply not good enough. Duff and Robbie Keane never showed up. Kilbane was atrocious. Our last throw of the dice was to throw on a fringe player at a second division Spanish side and a Norwich city reserve. We failed to produce in the final third, and our tactics, for some inexplicable reason, seemed to be about playing the long ball.

The thing is, none of our performances in the group - up until and including last night - give cause for that kind of optimism. Cyprus have been very difficult for better sides than ours to break down away from home. And why people view Switzerland at home as some kind of foregone conclusion is beyond me. Just because we 'owe' them, doesn't somehow entitle us to a victory.

Last night showed that tactically and otherwise, while we can rally and scrap a bit for a while at this level, we don't pose nearly enough attacking threat to worry good teams. In the last 15-20 minutes we lost our shape and went out without a peep. I don't see how, on the back of our performances to date, people can expect much different from the tricky ties ahead of us.