Haven't we been through this chestnut before? The bans are a certain distance from the dugout during the match, and not on the pitch or in the dressing room pre or post match. Or it was back in this case (could've changed in the meantime).Originally Posted by pete
The bans say that perosn must stay away from ground during the game as wel, as 1 hour before & after it. Are you suggesting a commentary box is not in the ground?
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
I can be corrected on this but I think the text of the rule states that the manager must be 50 yards away from the touchline. In a lot of EL grounds this would put them outside. It's a typical Eircom League mess the rules are bad so everybody ignores them even the officials who are meant to uphold them.
I am not having a dig at Shels here either. I know for a, as we like to say in Bohs, FACT that other clubs are subverting their bans as well.
We've been though this before. Fenlon broke his ban by walking across the pitch in Dalymount directly after the match. The eL knew he broke the ban, discussed it but did nothing.
The wording of the bans for technical staff, introduced this season was a bit ambigous at the start, particularly the the bit about apres-match - as shown in the first ban that Fenlon got for the Bohs Vs Shels game in the first round of fixtures:
6th May 2005
Pat Fenlon (Manager, Shelbourne) suspended for TWO (2) competitive matches, fined €200 and warned as to his future conduct. For this two match suspension, Mr Fenlon is to remain at least 50 metres away from the dressing room, technical area and pitch for at least two hours before the matches as well as during and after the matches.
It has since been clarified and expanded:
The following suspensions and sanctions were issued by the Disciplinary Commission at their meeting on Wednesday, 24th August 2005 and will take effect as and from Wednesday, 7th September 2005 unless otherwise stated:
Pat Fenlon (Manager, Shelbourne) suspended for FOUR (4) competitive matches, fined €1,000 and severely warned as to his future conduct as a result of being removed from the technical area by the referee v Drogheda United (08.08.05). For this four match suspension, Mr Fenlon is to remain at least 50 metres away from the dressing room, technical area and pitch for at least two hours before the matches as well as during the matches and for one hour after the matches.
This Ollie Byrne ban, mentions no particulars:
Oliver Byrne (Secretary, Shelbourne) suspended from Wednesday, 21st September to Thursday, 20th October inclusive, fined €2,000 and severely warned as to his future conduct as a result of it being found that he used unnecessary force to prevent Mr Terry Collins from taking photographs and as a result brought the game into disrepute v Drogheda United (08.08.05).
Bohs commentary box is less than 50 metres (approx half a pitch length) from the pitch. Last I checked walking across a pitch after a match also breaks that. Standing outside the dressing room also breaks it. I know your saying the bans better worded now but if it went to Court Fenlon would lose it i'm sure.
Is there any EL ground in the country where you can be 50 metres away from the pitch and still be inside the stadium? Makes no sense.
Sorry, but the hell is ambigous about that?
Typical Shels trying to twist the rules in the favour yet again, did Oily get you all to study Law?
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the ban for fenlon states he has to be 50 metres away from the pitch.theres no way he can be in ANY el ground and still remain 50 metres from the pitch
for at least two hours before the matches as well as during and after the matches.
It didn't give any duration of time for after the match - the new wording now clearely specifies for one hour after the gamr
so is it up to the league to enforce this or is it up to rovers not let pat into the stadium tomorrow night?
I cant see him camping out in teh TV gantry for 2 hours befoer kick off
any chance you could scan the wording of the Ollie ban order and put that on the net too Fintan???
I reckon the Carlisle might be one of the only ones close to 50 meters, doen the far end of the ground behind the training pitch would be close on 50 meters i reckon
I did above - copyed & pasted from the official email
Again:
Oliver Byrne (Secretary, Shelbourne) suspended from Wednesday, 21st September to Thursday, 20th October inclusive, fined €2,000 and severely warned as to his future conduct as a result of it being found that he used unnecessary force to prevent Mr Terry Collins from taking photographs and as a result brought the game into disrepute v Drogheda United (08.08.05).
so nutsy wont be in dalymount tomorrow night?
nice
I thought Fenlon just had another touchline ban for his few games. In which case he'll probably be acting the tripod again.
God
for at least 2 hours before and 1 hour after the match?!?
if we lose more points for helping shels cheat.....
Well ye know what I (but not TikTok) would say about Ollie!
I think that its got to the stage with Nutsy and Ollie that points deductions should come in to play. It was thte only thing that worked with Rovers why not Shels?
As I say, we're just young & a bit nieve.
What exactly did a points deduction for rovers make them do ?
€2,000 fine is fairly huge considering he has no previous fine this season. There is no way that a red card for a manager should result in a points deduction either
Would Bohs and Longford then be deducted points too ?
Cant see how they are going to keep Ollie away from the ground either?? The fine seems bad enough for what he did considering the press release by Drogheda contained lies/errors.
John Delaney!! GET OUT!!!
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Well I'll put it this way, they wont be screwing up their paper work again anytime soon. They got off the first time around and were suitably punished with a points deduction IMO
I do agree that in the context of the eL the fine is big, but whats 2k in the overall scheme of things for Shels?I think its fair to say that this incident wasnt 'out of the blue'. He has a track history of bringing the name of the league into disrepute. In answer to your question, no I dont think that a points deduction should be given for any manager being given a red card, but when it continually happens, and when the punishment is broken by the manager, a points deduction is a strong punishment that wont be taken lightly€2,000 fine is fairly huge considering he has no previous fine this season. There is no way that a red card for a manager should result in a points deduction either
Would Bohs and Longford then be deducted points too ?
They, as the organising body have ordered him to stay away, that should be enough, but it seems that Ollie has a dim view of punsihments that go his way, making a joke of the league and its officialsCant see how they are going to keep Ollie away from the ground either??
I actually never got too involved in this story, but what you say seems to have some truth in it. Fact is though that he has been given this punishment and should take it like a man.The fine seems bad enough for what he did considering the press release by Drogheda contained lies/errors.
As I say, we're just young & a bit nieve.
I think for an issue like this you would have to give a suspended point deduction first (which might have been a good idea after the Drogs game).
Next time Ollie or Fenlon acts the maggot give us a six point deduction that's suspended on condition of good behaviour.
Something like that could put this issue to bed?
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