France (H) match discussion thread

[tricky_colour]

I'll brace myself for the response but that chant irritated me no end. I posted before that Keane's booking (that's 4 in all this tournament meaning he misses 20% of the games through suspension) in the Faroes for dissent could cost us dear. That chicken may now come home to roost.

Take it as read that Keane was our best player on the night. He loses possession (through his legs) and scurries back to foul a Frenchman who is in a threatening position (fair enough) and the ball breaks to Makalele on the floor (no threat) and he goes in on him with stud showing. Booking.

Our best player has once again put himself out of a vital trip to Cyprus where he carried the team last time we played there. The crowd in response chant "Keano". Muppets. Do those of you who made that chant support his action in getting himself banned for our vital qualifier. I didn't hear any chant of "Reido" or "Morro" when they also got booked - but maybe they haven't got 4 needless bookings in the campaign so they're not worth the chant. They're were plenty other well deserved chants of "Keano" but when someone needlessly put themselves out of a vital game, I certainly won't immediately chant their name.

Time will tell how disasterous his absence will be. 6 pts will pretty much get us a play off place. I would have been reasonably confident of 3 in Cyprus if he had been playing. Now.... Reid and Morrisson we can live without.

The way I see it is that it is better that he got booked rather than play the
Cyprus match and get booked there and then miss the Swiss match.

We should expect to beat Cyprus with any eleven. The Swiss match is the
vital one.

[NeilMcD]

GERMANY is still calling for Ireland after last night's defeat by France at Lansdowne Road but it has now just got a hell of a lot harder to reach next summer's World Cup Finals.

A superb 68th minute goal from Arsenal striker Thierry Henry handed France a victory they just about deserved after Ireland's battling performance yielded them absolutely nothing bar a man of the match award for Roy Keane.

Brian Kerr's Ireland must now win in Cyprus on October 8 and at home to Switzerland four days later to finish on 19 points but if the French win or draw with the Swiss and then beat Cyprus they will win the group.

If the Swiss beat France but lose to Ireland and the French and Irish both beat Cyprus then all three teams will be level on 19 points and the calculators and slide rulers will be needed to separate them.

The French team was exactly as expected with Lillian Thuram passing a late fitness test and Sylvain Wiltord coming in for Liverpool striker Djibril Cisse.

Kerr's team too was along expected lines but the virus which laid Andy O'Brien low at the weekend weakened the Portsmouth defender to such an extent that he wasn't risked. So Richard Dunne was called in for his first competitive game in the green jersey since Ireland beat Holland in that memorable World Cup qualifier four years ago.

And the Irish manager signalled his intent to go at the French from the start by including Andy Reid on the right hand side of midfield ahead of Steve Finnan, who had started in Paris.

Kerr instructed the Lansdowne Road groundstaff to narrow the pitch by one metre on each side in order to make things tighter for the French.

And it was evident from the first whistle that he had told his players to hound, hassle and harry the French in every area of pitch.

Roy Keane set the tone with two tackles on Sylvain Wiltord and Zinedine Zidane while Clinton Morrison, Stephen Carr and Andy Reid all also won early duels.

Keane was superb in the centre of midfield, always biting at French legs and always there to mop up the loose balls but he'll be missing from the trip to Cyprus along with Morrison and Reid after they all picked up yellow cards from a dreadfully fussy German referee who never got to grips with with the sheer intensity of the match.

At the back Dunne was another Irish hero, a towering presence who grabbed opportunity to relaunch his international and never allowed Thierry Henry the space he thrives on.

At the other end, Damien Duff found himself the victim of a double press every time he got possession but Reid on the other flank assumed the mantle of creator-in-chief while chasing back like a hungry terrier in pursuit of the village postman.

Just how important it was for the Irish to retain possession was demonstrated after just eight minutes when Kilbane passed the ball straight to Zidane and the French move ended with a crude tackle by Dunne on Henry 25 yards from goal. It then took a superb flying one-handed save from Shay Given to keep out Zidane's curler which appeared destined for the top corner. But the Irish began to turn the screw and the French goal led a charmed life when Andy Reid saw his curling 20 yard free-kick clip the post with Gregory Coupet stranded.

Ireland then had claims for a penalty turned down when Boumsong and Thuram between them appeared to clip Robbie Keane before Morrison's first time effort a few minutes whistled a millimetre or two past the far post.

The Crystal Palace striker was giving Boumsong a torrid time, next latching on to Carr's through ball but Coupet produced a one handed save with Robbie Keane unmarked inside him.

But any time the Irish lost possession the French showed how dangerous they are and both Claude Makelele and Patrick Vieira sent long range shots whistling past Given's right hand post and the 'keeper wasn't slow to show his displeasure at finding himself in the firing line.

The second half continued in much the same vein as the first with Dunne heading over in the opening seconds and the French always looking dangerous when ever they got the space to turn and run at the Irish defence.

The tackles continued to fly in and Herr Frandel flashed cards around like confetti even showing one to Zidane who had cleanly won the ball off Dunne.

As the game entered its last quarter it seemed to have 'draw' written all over it but then out of nothing Henry produced a piece of magic. Seconds after he had dropped a shade deeper, allowing Wiltord to become the lone striker, he pounced on a loose ball on the edge of the Irish area and curled a sublime shot from 20 yards past the outstretched hand of Given and into the far top corner.

The French immediately took off captain Zidane, his work seemingly done, and then Henry and replaced them with Florent Malouda and Cisse respectively.

Kerr waited until the final ten minutes before reverting to Plan B by bringing on Gary Doherty up front for Morrison and moving O'Shea into midfield with Ian Harte replacing Kilbane.

But there was to be no grandstand finish, no equaliser and Lansdowne Road which had rocked for most of the night fell deadly silent at the final whistle save for the cheering of a few hundred French fans.

REP OF IRELAND - Given, Carr, Cunningham, Dunne, O'Shea, Andy Reid, Roy Keane, Kilbane (Harte 79), Duff, Robbie Keane, Morrison (Doherty 79).

FRANCE - Coupet, Sagnol (Givet 90), Thuram, Boumsong, Gallas, Makelele, Wiltord, Vieira, Dhorasoo, Zidane (Malouda 70), Henry (Cisse 76).

REF - H Fandel (Ger).

Gerry McDermott

[davey]

davey, i didn't hear you shouting in the pub, was listening out for ya though Was actually quiet i thought, maybe everyone was nervous

KT

Yeah, hards days teaching meant I was very quiet. Quite grumpy too. Nearly bit the head of the girls selling raffle tickets for the gaelic team It was busy in Waxys but as you said strangely quiet. Were you down in the lower bit?

[brine3]

Does narrowing the pitch make any sense at all when you consider that our attacking threat comes from our wingers (one of which is one of the best in Europe) and France like to play it through the middle?

[Green Tribe]

Yeah, hards days teaching meant I was very quiet. Quite grumpy too. Nearly bit the head of the girls selling raffle tickets for the gaelic team It was busy in Waxys but as you said strangely quiet. Were you down in the lower bit?

Aye, I saw those girls selling tickets. I was in the lower bit, actually right up infront of the screen, near blinded myself,maybe i was blocking your view

Few Germans beside me, supporting Ireland and were happy to see the England result . It was weirdly quiet in there, understandably so after henry's goal. Pity i didn't see ya, you weren't the guy sitting behind me after the game looking very down?

[Slash/ED]

On the Doherty sub, it's very easy to be wise after the event (and yes, it was probably one of the single worst performances in an Irish jersey), but who was our top scorer in the last campaign? Kerr was fully justified to put him on and try and shake things up a bit. It didn't work - c'est la vie. I don't think an untried international with barely any Premiership experience would have fared much better, to be honest.

I thought the Keane booking was for dissent after Reid fouled his man - granted, I was in the South touchline seats and didn't have the best of views for working out technicalities like that. Anyone confirm what exactly happened?

Come off it, I could have told you before the game, during the game, as the sub was being made, some time last month, ANY time you want Doherty is an embarassment. He couldn't make the bench of a relegated team last season and is a centre half - and a sh*t one at that. He scored a few goals in the last campaign and that is it. He is not even close to worthy of a place in the squad, to bring him on in a game like this was a píss take. The French defenders must have been laughing at the sight of him coming on. He literally couldn't even win a header unmarked, he headed the thing up in the air and tripped over it. At that point, I wasn't even upset, just embarassed for the poor fella. It's not his fault he is farcically uncut for football at this level, it's Kerrs fault for picking him.

[FarBeag]

We tried our best last night,well Roy, Dunne ,Cunningham, Given and Reid did. The rest of the team were utter muck.We are predictable, just as the French players and manager said before the game.We bring on the biggest football reject in the history of Irish football (Doc) as our letal weapon FFS.France controlled the game, they were the better footballers and we would have been beaten by much more only for Roy Keane.I know he got booked but this is Roy Keane full of commitment and passion and god knows what we will do without this guy.If we beat Cyprus(wont believe it until i see it though)we have the main man Keano for the Swiss game and to be honest we need him far more than any other Irish player.

[Closed Account 2]

Well I'm a little bit more optimistic than last night. I think we should win in Cyprus.

I'm not too worried about Roy Keane not playing out there as I think if we play Kav in the holding role our midfield should be ok, or we could play Steve Reid there. Cyprus do not have players like Zidane or Vieira, and I think most of our midfielders should be able to out play them (except maybe Miller). Upfront will be a bit of a problem without Clinton, I think he'll probably pick Elliott. I'd be tempted to start with Ian Harte in place of Andy Reid, even though its not his ideal position, as again the Cypriots shouldnt be that dangerous and Harte's free kicks could be vital in a game where we will be facing difficulties upfront, failing that Finnan could do a job there or even McGeady at a push.

By the time we play the Swiss hopefully Clinton will be back on form and have more confidence having played regularly for Palace. We should have Roy and Andy Reid back too. Its not impossible to see us getting 6 points, but it will be hard (and the play-offs harder still) and if we had just been able to put away the Israelis it wouldnt be so vital.

[joema]

Come off it, I could have told you before the game, during the game, as the sub was being made, some time last month, ANY time you want Doherty is an embarassment. He couldn't make the bench of a relegated team last season and is a centre half - and a sh*t one at that. He scored a few goals in the last campaign and that is it. He is not even close to worthy of a place in the squad, to bring him on in a game like this was a píss take. The French defenders must have been laughing at the sight of him coming on. He literally couldn't even win a header unmarked, he headed the thing up in the air and tripped over it. At that point, I wasn't even upset, just embarassed for the poor fella. It's not his fault he is farcically uncut for football at this level, it's Kerrs fault for picking him.

spot on

[pineapple stu]

If say, instead of playing in the Championship, they were playing in Holland or Belgium or Portugual, they might actually have a chance of playing in the Champions League or UEFA cup. I feel they could learn a lot more about football by doing that

You mean like David Connolly?

Come off it, I could have told you before the game, during the game, as the sub was being made, some time last month, ANY time you want Doherty is an embarassment.

I see you ignore my point about our top scorer in the last campaign. He's been brought on to good effect before - roughing up defences and creating gaps. If you don't bring him on, what do you suggest? Keep the team we had which was getting nowhere? Bring on Elliott, a player with a handful of Premier Division games and about as many international caps? Put Duff up front? Recall Connolly? It's not Kerr's fault if we don't have any strength in depth up front. Castigating Kerr for a sub which has worked to good effect before is nonsense.

[davey]

Aye, I saw those girls selling tickets. I was in the lower bit, actually right up infront of the screen, near blinded myself,maybe i was blocking your view

Few Germans beside me, supporting Ireland and were happy to see the England result . It was weirdly quiet in there, understandably so after henry's goal. Pity i didn't see ya, you weren't the guy sitting behind me after the game looking very down?

No, was propping up the bar!!

[Slash/ED]

You mean like David Connolly?


I see you ignore my point about our top scorer in the last campaign. He's been brought on to good effect before - roughing up defences and creating gaps. If you don't bring him on, what do you suggest? Keep the team we had which was getting nowhere? Bring on Elliott, a player with a handful of Premier Division games and about as many international caps? Put Duff up front? Recall Connolly? It's not Kerr's fault if we don't have any strength in depth up front. Castigating Kerr for a sub which has worked to good effect before is nonsense.

He scored a few goals yes, three iirc one was an own goal really, but the aforementioned Connolly got a rake of goals for us once. He never roughed up defences or created gaps, I cannot remember a single goal from a Doherty flick on but I'm open to correction there. All he did was score twice against Georgia (His 'goal' against Albania was never, ever his goal and was a woeful effort forgotten by even woefuller* defender). His all round game is appaling. He doesn't rough up anyone, he falls over himself or gives away free kicks. What does he add to the team? He couldn't make the Norwich bench as a centre half nevermind a striker. Literally the only thing he adds to the side is he's a wee bit tall. That's it. He looked out of his dept against feckin Faroe Islands when he came on for christ sake! He couldn't trap a bag of cement.

As for alternatives, none are world class but plenty better than Doherty. Connolly himself is a better player, far better, as is Elliot, as are numerous other strikers who while are far from international class are better forwards than a centre half who couldn't make the bench of a relegated team.

Even in the first division if played up front, where of course he'll never be played as he isn't good enough up front even for first division Norwich, he would struggle to score goals. He would certinaly not get double digits or be anywhere nearly as good as Elliot or Connolly were in that division. I'd even favour Alan Lee if you're really so tactically limited you're only plan b is throw on someone abnormally high and kick it at him.

Doherty would not get a game at Shels, of that I have no doubt whatsoever, as a striker anyway. He has no pace, no mobility, no touch, no technique, no vision, no ability, he's not even good at winning and flicking on headers. He has nothing other than the fact he's taller than the average striker and scored two goals against Georgia.

*may well have made that word up I'll admit.

[JoeSemi]

There were plenty of knee-jerk reactions at Landsdowne last night(on and off the pitch) and there have been even more today. Yes, Ireland can still qualify and I believe we will make the playoffs despite the absence of Reid, Morrison and somebody else for the Cyprus game. The result of that game and whatever happens in Basle should have a major bearing on the mindset of the players going into the do-or-die date with the Swiss. Its likely that France will defeat Switzerland and we'll beat Cyprus, giving us an added belief going into the final game. Tactics will play a major part and I've enough faith in Brian Kerr to deliver when least expected, as he did with the underage teams on many occasions.

Everything from the management, the players, the referee, the tactics, Martin Jol(!) and the media have been blamed for last nights result. What you cannot legislate for is the touch of magic Henry inflicted on us and the authority and respect Zinedine Zidane commanded among the other French players. Ireland don't have a player of such standing despite the constant adulation thrown at the number 6 for Ireland. Zidane orchestrated everything ,and when Willy Sagnol overhit a couple of balls he had the intelligence to explain to him where the better option may have been; instead of giving him a bollocking. The man showed why he's been the best player in the world in the last 20 years and how far some of our lads have to go technically, physically and mentally.

Yes there were tactical flaws. Yes Robbie Keane shouldn't have been on the rip. Yes the ref did call a few decisions incorrectly. But the hysterics that generated round the ground did nobody any favours either. Some fans feel they have to get on their feet and abuse players(Irish or opposition) without looking at anything from a rational perspective. Our number 6 was correctly booked and a large number of idiots vented their frustration at the referee. Zidane was booed at times, so too Henry and Boumsong. This blindness on some peoples part increased the frenzied nature in the stands which didn't help our players, but encouraged Zidane and Henry to ram it down our throats even more.

The team that won last night were technically better than us. You can match opponents physically up to a point, but quality always shines through. And until some people stop kidding themselves and educate themselves a bit more on the game, Ireland will always have certain fans who are too quick to open their mouths in a nonsensical manner and to the detriment of the team.

[tricky_colour]

Does narrowing the pitch make any sense at all when you consider that our attacking threat comes from our wingers (one of which is one of the best in Europe) and France like to play it through the middle?

No.

Besides Andy Reid is too fat for a narrow pitch

[Qwerty]

Come off it, I could have told you before the game, during the game, as the sub was being made, some time last month, ANY time you want Doherty is an embarassment. He couldn't make the bench of a relegated team last season and is a centre half - and a sh*t one at that. He scored a few goals in the last campaign and that is it. He is not even close to worthy of a place in the squad, to bring him on in a game like this was a píss take. The French defenders must have been laughing at the sight of him coming on. He literally couldn't even win a header unmarked, he headed the thing up in the air and tripped over it. At that point, I wasn't even upset, just embarassed for the poor fella. It's not his fault he is farcically uncut for football at this level, it's Kerrs fault for picking him.

Kerr and the Doc go back a long way, he scored a few important goals for Brian back in the days when Brian managed the kiddies teams, it probably looked far less ridiculous back then.

There is no doubt that this team would play much better with a striker with an aerial prescence, I'm tried of people saying we have to play nice football on the deck, when Ireland play on the deck their passing is slow, they need about 5 touches. Watch the French and the Dutch, the Italians and the Portugese - they have technique and look comfortable on the ball.

Dommenech is right we are predictable and limited, we really need the aerial option to mix it up, this team couldn't slice butter. We have all the pieces bar a muscular and tall striker to lead the line, Kerr should start trawling the English leagues for candidates. We CANNOT depend on Duff playing well, that is not a game plan!

[Dotsy]

Yes there were tactical flaws. Yes Robbie Keane shouldn't have been on the rip. Yes the ref did call a few decisions incorrectly. But the hysterics that generated round the ground did nobody any favours either. Some fans feel they have to get on their feet and abuse players(Irish or opposition) without looking at anything from a rational perspective. Our number 6 was correctly booked and a large number of idiots vented their frustration at the referee. Zidane was booed at times, so too Henry and Boumsong. This blindness on some peoples part increased the frenzied nature in the stands which didn't help our players, but encouraged Zidane and Henry to ram it down our throats even more.

It's not hysterics it's called passion. This was a massive game of football for Ireland and the fans did what fans should be doing. Sang their hearts out all night, booed the ref when he gave decisions against our team and created a hostile atmosphere for the opposition. Not everything that happens at a match is rational, fans get caught up in the heat of the occassion. Ask our players what they would prefer, the atmosphere at Wednesday's match or the morgue that was LR at the China match. As for the frenzied nature in the stands encouraging the French to ram it down our throats, what utter nonsense. The French players didn't up their game and score because of what the Irish fans were doing in the stands. Henry scored with a moment of magic (something he is always likely to pull off). Apart from that the French despite their admittedly better technique didn't perform much better than us over the 90 minutes and on the night a draw would have been a fairer result.

By the way if you wish to educate me a little please do so it would be appreciated

[lofty9]

I was very optimistic going into the game and after the first half I thought we were doing very well. France were restricted to a solitary free kick and a long range effort from Viera. We had created a few chances. I thought Roy Keane was oustanding in the first half and after his booking he was less effective. This was shown in the second half when the French physicallly outmuscled us, from the back to the front, Roy could not be as aggresive and set the tone as he did in the first half. Robbie K,Morrison, Duff and Reid were all bullied in the second half. Every time the ball was played upfront there was no one to hold it up the ball kept coming back. I can see Kerr's logic in bringing on Doherty to try and win headers and hold the ball up - but the important thing is that he is shyte. Elliot should have been given a chance I thought but that is the managers call. We were trying to play it down the wings etc but Thuram kept winning everything. He was the best player on the pitch. Dunne and Cunningham were the pick of Irelands team - both outstanding.

In regards to that spacer Dommenech's claim that we were predictable - wtf were France? They played through the middle and it is easy to see why they score very few goals. He is very lucky he can rely on a wonder goal from a special player. He is a very lucky man as they were struggling at the time to create anything.

Is it true that Pires and Silvestre have been dropped because of their star signs? Apparently he was intervied on French tv a while back and expalined that they have been ommitted from the squad because they are both Sagitarius(or something)! And don't forget Zidane's pact with the devil -that woke him up in the middle of the night, sat in his room, to tell him to come back to play against Ireland.

Well back to the optimism onwards and upwards - 2 nil v Cyprus. 1-0 v Switzerland. A play off place and beat the English will do me nicely.

[Slash/ED]

Kerr and the Doc go back a long way, he scored a few important goals for Brian back in the days when Brian managed the kiddies teams, it probably looked far less ridiculous back then.

There is no doubt that this team would play much better with a striker with an aerial prescence, I'm tried of people saying we have to play nice football on the deck, when Ireland play on the deck their passing is slow, they need about 5 touches. Watch the French and the Dutch, the Italians and the Portugese - they have technique and look comfortable on the ball.

Dommenech is right we are predictable and limited, we really need the aerial option to mix it up, this team couldn't slice butter. We have all the pieces bar a muscular and tall striker to lead the line, Kerr should start trawling the English leagues for candidates. We CANNOT depend on Duff playing well, that is not a game plan!

First of all, Stephen McPhail was awesome for his youth sides, I wouldn't go calling him up or throwing him in expecting a miracle against France. I don't care how far they go back or even if Doherty even babysat his kids (Now where have I heard that before) it has no relevance to anything whatsoever.

Weather we have an inherent need for a target man is another issue, I disagree, contrary to popular opinion Keane does not play well with one imo. However, even if we're so limited that we do, it doesn't mean we should play any old stick just because their tall. Doherty is not an effective target man or effective footballer, the neanderthal concept that we need someone tall to kick the ball at does not mean we should play any old idiot clearly out of their depth just because they are taller than the average pub league standard striker.

[skbio_toronto]

I see you ignore my point about our top scorer in the last campaign. He's been brought on to good effect before - roughing up defences and creating gaps. If you don't bring him on, what do you suggest? Keep the team we had which was getting nowhere? Bring on Elliott, a player with a handful of Premier Division games and about as many international caps? Put Duff up front? Recall Connolly? It's not Kerr's fault if we don't have any strength in depth up front. Castigating Kerr for a sub which has worked to good effect before is nonsense.[/QUOTE]

Here here. I'm glad someone on this messageboard had the sense to point out that Doherty HAS worked as an option before. Getting the winner in Gerorgia immediately springs to mind a couple of years back.

Look, I did'nt get to see the match as Setanta did'nt feckin' carry it in Vancouver. But going by Gabriel Egans's commentary, it seems we gave a good show of ourselves. Some players performed better than others, but sure thats football. Had the upper hand but did'nt get the goal lead. Small margin for error (especially in international football) Seeing the odd call for Brian Kerr's resingnation onthis messageboard is utter BS and any self respecting Irish football supporter knows that.

We still have a reasonable chance of making the playoff. Amazing since we have'nt won a game of note, as yet with two games to go.

Going on previous experiences (even that 4-2 we had last time in Cyprus was dodgy) it will be a wretched nerve wracking game in Nicosia. Tell ye what though. If France get a result in Berne (very conceivable) and we get three points in Cyprus...

Its down to us and the Swiss at Lansadowne Road. If we can't beat them at home than quite frankly we don't deserve Germany anyhow.

So please to certain people out there, cut the BS about sacking Kerr and such nonsense. There's still a genuine chance we can make the playoff's. Any postmortums carried out should take place after our fate is sealed.

[Tram_14]

Just saw Henry's goal again on soccer am. I though Dunne did well the whole game, BUT for the goal he has stood right off him, he had way to much space, it probably was the only time he wasn't harried by the Irish & he took advantage. Lookin at it again its a real shame......he just wasn't closed down in time. That space can't be given to the Swiss (hakan Yakan & Frei esp).

.....Also on the crowd who were mostly fantastic, there was a real Lull in the singing during that passage of play that the goal was scored. If you get a ticket for God's Sake please sing, it really does help. I'm sick of hearing people say landsdowne isn't a fortress, shutup, make it a bloody fortress, I sang for 90 mins & I must of made 30 or 40 people around me sing each time I started. ITS A FOOTBALL MATCH, SING & stop complaining that there is no atmosphere in lansdowne.

Sorry rant over...