Dublin unrest after stabbing

[osarusan]

In the aftermath of a stabbing outside a creche in which 5 people were injured, including 3 children, there has been some serious stuff going on in Dublin city centre tonight.

Rumours/reports are that the stabbing was done by an Algerian, though the police seem to be considering it a self-contained incident rather than something terror-linked, and I think these rumours are being used as an excuse for what looks like some utterly scumbag behaviour including fighting with/attacking Gardai, setting fire to Garda cars, busses, Luas trams, and looting some shops.

[the 12 th man]

Every scrote in Dublin just been let off the leash.

[pineapple stu]

Looks like the Love Ulster riots all over again

[Jolly Red Giant]

Clearly the children of Ireland are much safer tonight with these scumbags on the streets.

[dahamsta]

Right wing nutters rioting on the streets of Dublin, right wing nutters going into power in the Netherlands. And Micky Martin still hammering away at the triple lock and our neutrality at the same time. Am I the only one to see the inevitable, awful connection?

[sbgawa]

right on 1 and 2 but the tripple lock is a stupid rule.
IF the Russians invaded the UK and were killing the millions of Irish who live there would we still think it fair to have the Russians veto any involvement by us at UN level. The sheer stupidity of that makes Martins best arguement, people who believe in neutrality would be better off coming up with a realistic other version of checks and balances then defending a tripple lock that is a nonsense.

[osarusan]

Not too sure about the right-wing credientials of the clowns on the street yesterday.

I expect they were equal-opportunity scrotes, and if a pure-blooded Gael had stabbed some foreigners, they'd have been just as happy to loot footlocker and set fire to busses in support of immigrants.

They were just looking for any excuse, and were very easily led when one arrived.

I'd be more interested in who's doing the leading.

[culloty82]

Given the rise of SF in polling largely began in working-class areas, before accelerating among middle-class voters, it seems reasonable to assume that this month's decline with newer voters is largely in the first demographic - if such voters are already disillusioned with FF and FG due to their economic and housing policies, but go on to consider that SF are moving too quickly towards the political centre, then the far-right will be quick to exploit such sentiments with simplistic rhetoric, as in the rest of Europe.

[OwlsFan]

I listened to the Today FM News yesterday which was an invitation to riot for some. It stated that the Garda had arrested a foreign national who was under a deportation order in connection with the alleged attempted rape. Why so much detail? A man has been arrested would have been sufficient.

[passinginterest]

I listened to the Today FM News yesterday which was an invitation to riot for some. It stated that the Garda had arrested a foreign national who was under a deportation order in connection with the alleged attempted rape. Why so much detail? A man has been arrested would have been sufficient.

I was listening to some of the reports on radio Nova when the news was breaking and they came with warnings of "false narratives circulating on social media". So while it probably seemed a lot of information, it was most likely an attempt at calming what was already inevitable. There's an element of society, still a smaller minority, but growing, who just want an excuse for violence and racism. I don't believe that the majority really care at all about the victim in this case, or violence against women and children in general. There's a huge issue for society to try and solve, to close the growing gap to this element who themselves feel let down by Government and society, by the poverty gap etc. There doesn't seem to be an easy solution. It's one I find hard to discuss because there's so little logic or humanism in the hate. The solution is probably in wrap around social services, mental health, education, integration, etc. but it's so hard to see how we get there at the moment. The US politics discussions showed just how polarised things can become and how it's becoming close to impossible to have an honest, open, logical conversation about it. It makes it harder when you start to see friends or family getting pulled more into the hate cycle. I don't even really know what I'm trying to say, other than it's awful what happened to that child, it's awful to see Gardaí being violently attacked in response, it's awful to see racism and hate being given a greater voice, and the worst of all is it seems to be only getting worse for the foreseeable future.

[SkStu]

It is such a tough subject to try and talk about because sharing an honest opinion seems to carry a lot of risk no matter where you fall in the spectrum.

The bottom line for me is I think all sides of this are being let down by the lack of urgency across all political parties on fixing/debating our immigration policy and the effects of it on those entering and the citizens of the country. Debate about our immigration policy and practices are avoided like the plague. At the highest level, whatever the intended outcomes are, it cant be seen to be "working". Basic services like housing, health and education don't seem able to support our populations needs and adding more and more cant be part of the answer to that. The increase in crime is secondary from my perspective.

The reactions - visible and invisible - from Irish citizens are understandable (the accompanying actions are often not). We didn't have this level of viciousness until quite recently - and that is despite the major influx of immigrants in the early 00's - Africans, eastern Europeans, Asians - which is when it should have started if this was a racist thing. Personally, I think it oversimplifies the issue to brand all reactions as "racist" which seems to happen directly and indirectly. I don't think it is helpful. There is an element of racism at play for some idiots - definitely - but for the most part, it seems more a reaction to something that is just not working.

I'm pro-immigration by default but I also believe it has to be done responsibly and I am having a hard time identifying the responsibility in any of what is going on over the last 5 or so years. When I've been back a few times over the last couple of years, I've occasionally heard equally hostile comments about immigrants of all colours and nationalities who are seen to take advantage of the system and offer nothing to our society or way of life in return. The quantity of these comments seem to have grown in that same two year period. It seems that more and more fairly reasonable and tolerant people are becoming more and more frustrated by the situation.

The thugs who show up to riot and vandalise everything provide great cover to politicians to avoid confronting the issues head on, discussing the causes honestly and proposing workable solutions. Our political parties are doing a massive disservice to citizens, asylum seekers / refugees and legal immigrants / future immigrants. The question is whether it is too late to do anything about it now.

[Neish]

The crime is the issue and in this case its a particularly appalling crime , the accused should face the full wrath of the law, not vigilante intimidation and violence

Its really irrelevant what the religion, nationality, ethnicity etc of the accused, there is good and bad in all sections of humanity. Where were these so called concerned citizens when members of various religious orders were committing same and much worse crimes for many decades in this country, why weren't they protesting outside churches and HQ of religious orders?

Such incidents like in City west last night and the one that started this tread back in 2023 are the result hard and far & hard right individuals praying on the gullible and whipping up hate by praying of fear. Some of the more mainstream political figures are at fault for acceding to such individuals and more or less completely unfounded fears

All stats show the vast majority of sexual assaults are committed by someone know to the victim

As for all this chat of un-vetted foreign males is pure nonsense. Do you know the criminal history of someone everyone in the vicinity when your in a shop, sport event, cinema, church etc? If you don't fear going to such crowds why do you fear a group from an IPA centre etc?

Am I saying there is no bad elements in said groups of course not but this so called "concern" is rooted in hate, ignorance and gullibility

[the 12 th man]

The crime is the issue and in this case its a particularly appalling crime , the accused should face the full wrath of the law, not vigilante intimidation and violence

Its really irrelevant what the religion, nationality, ethnicity etc of the accused, there is good and bad in all sections of humanity. Where were these so called concerned citizens when members of various religious orders were committing same and much worse crimes for many decades in this country, why weren't they protesting outside churches and HQ of religious orders?

Such incidents like in City west last night and the one that started this tread back in 2023 are the result hard and far & hard right individuals praying on the gullible and whipping up hate by praying of fear. Some of the more mainstream political figures are at fault for acceding to such individuals and more or less completely unfounded fears

All stats show the vast majority of sexual assaults are committed by someone know to the victim

As for all this chat of un-vetted foreign males is pure nonsense. Do you know the criminal history of someone everyone in the vicinity when your in a shop, sport event, cinema, church etc? If you don't fear going to such crowds why do you fear a group from an IPA centre etc?

Am I saying there is no bad elements in said groups of course not but this so called "concern" is rooted in hate, ignorance and gullibility

So you would you have no problem with 3000 foreign men parachuted in next door to you?,and I mean literally on your doorstep,just wondering.(Not excusing the scrotes last night btw)

[SkStu]

not sure if that is necessarily a direct response to my post but I will respond to this anyway to show where i align and where i think there is a bit of a counter-position that is fair and reasonable. I'd love to know if you think that immigration in Ireland has been a success / is working?

The crime is the issue and in this case its a particularly appalling crime , the accused should face the full wrath of the law, not vigilante intimidation and violence

100% agree. I would go so far as to say, I think that anyone who is a guest of this country that commits this kind of crime (or something like the stabbing of the Ukrainian teen in the IPAS centre) should be deported.

Its really irrelevant what the religion, nationality, ethnicity etc of the accused, there is good and bad in all sections of humanity. Where were these so called concerned citizens when members of various religious orders were committing same and much worse crimes for many decades in this country, why weren't they protesting outside churches and HQ of religious orders?

First, I think the church abuse scandal is a bit of a red herring. The country was very different place when a lot of these crimes were committed and communities were controlled by the RC Church. Thank goodness this has changed and there is a right to protest at things that shouldn't happen. As soon as it became safe to do so, the ugly issues all surfaced and the protests happened in the best way possible in terms of effect. People stopped turning up every Sunday to listen to bunch of a hypocrites. I do agree though that there is bad and good across humanity.

Such incidents like in City west last night and the one that started this tread back in 2023 are the result hard and far & hard right individuals praying on the gullible and whipping up hate by praying of fear. Some of the more mainstream political figures are at fault for acceding to such individuals and more or less completely unfounded fears

I think the far/hard right have actually made the situation far worse because they have given an easy pass to avoid a discussion on immigration. "Ah sure its just a bunch of racists, everythings great". Everything is not great, far from it, and the system is under massive stress which in turn puts ordinary decent people under massive stress and no real means to voice it. In some cases the stress and fear turn to blame and then violence. In some cases the blame and violence exists because there is a sizable number of actual racists attaching themselves to the "cause" but, in parallel with that, I also think it is a fair (non-racist) opinion to hold that our services simply cannot tolerate the population growth over the last 5-10 years when it couldnt really support the population last time I was fully availing of the same services.

All stats show the vast majority of sexual assaults are committed by someone know to the victim

Agreed. Statistics also show that immigrants are disproportionately represented in prisons/crimes. I put a lot of that down to their circumstances. Im an immigrant myself and i know many immigrants through my wifes family here and my connections back home (with poor english) and you can quickly see how things like depression, low job prospects, boredom, substance abuse can trigger that. All the more reason for a sober look at how we "do" immigration. Rather than accept or excuse/ignore the crime, maybe we should determine what annual population growth we are comfortable with and how we can support immigration and all immigrants as part of that? Like I said, i think we have a responsibility to do this in a way that serves all impacted groups fairly and positively.

As for all this chat of un-vetted foreign males is pure nonsense. Do you know the criminal history of someone everyone in the vicinity when your in a shop, sport event, cinema, church etc? If you don't fear going to such crowds why do you fear a group from an IPA centre etc?

No. But you self-police a bit as part of everyday life, dont you? Theres parts of cities that you avoid or avoid at certain times. Theres groups that you might cross the road to avoid if you see them gathered. You probably fear those groups you mention because you dont know who they are, you dont have confidence in the government to have vetted them, you might be victim to some of the petty crime that they are engaged in due to the reasons i listed above. I remember the NIMBY uproar when travellers would move into the field down the road or next door. Its no different. Some of the things I saw then dont bear repeating but i will say that the fears were founded in some cases. A lot of very decent folk but put them in the wrong situation or environment and it could change really quickly.

Am I saying there is no bad elements in said groups of course not but this so called "concern" is rooted in hate, ignorance and gullibility

When you see the riots last night and a couple of years ago, it is clear that the scummy and racist elements attach themelves to it - in a way that unfortunately shifts the dialogue away from where there is real and legitimate concerns that should be talked about. I have a lot of sympathy for the immigrants who are in these centres and the fear they must feel in those situations and i dont think its right that many of them have been there for years with nothing to do. Thats not their fault, that is our collective fault. For me, the bottom line is about the services like housing, healthcare, education. The basics. I would accept the immigration policy as it is today but only with a corresponding increase in taxes to fund enhanced social services and address the long standing issues around property ownership and housing.

[osarusan]

The thing I found most striking from all this is that the man alleged of the offence was served a deportation order some time ago, but just stayed in the country.

If nothing else, that's something that needs to be remedied, and would go a fair way to neutralise some of the arguments being made.

[Razors left peg]

not sure if that is necessarily a direct response to my post but I will respond to this anyway to show where i align and where i think there is a bit of a counter-position that is fair and reasonable. I'd love to know if you think that immigration in Ireland has been a success / is working?



100% agree. I would go so far as to say, I think that anyone who is a guest of this country that commits this kind of crime (or something like the stabbing of the Ukrainian teen in the IPAS centre) should be deported.



First, I think the church abuse scandal is a bit of a red herring. The country was very different place when a lot of these crimes were committed and communities were controlled by the RC Church. Thank goodness this has changed and there is a right to protest at things that shouldn't happen. As soon as it became safe to do so, the ugly issues all surfaced and the protests happened in the best way possible in terms of effect. People stopped turning up every Sunday to listen to bunch of a hypocrites. I do agree though that there is bad and good across humanity.



I think the far/hard right have actually made the situation far worse because they have given an easy pass to avoid a discussion on immigration. "Ah sure its just a bunch of racists, everythings great". Everything is not great, far from it, and the system is under massive stress which in turn puts ordinary decent people under massive stress and no real means to voice it. In some cases the stress and fear turn to blame and then violence. In some cases the blame and violence exists because there is a sizable number of actual racists attaching themselves to the "cause" but, in parallel with that, I also think it is a fair (non-racist) opinion to hold that our services simply cannot tolerate the population growth over the last 5-10 years when it couldnt really support the population last time I was fully availing of the same services.



Agreed. Statistics also show that immigrants are disproportionately represented in prisons/crimes. I put a lot of that down to their circumstances. Im an immigrant myself and i know many immigrants through my wifes family here and my connections back home (with poor english) and you can quickly see how things like depression, low job prospects, boredom, substance abuse can trigger that. All the more reason for a sober look at how we "do" immigration. Rather than accept or excuse/ignore the crime, maybe we should determine what annual population growth we are comfortable with and how we can support immigration and all immigrants as part of that? Like I said, i think we have a responsibility to do this in a way that serves all impacted groups fairly and positively.



No. But you self-police a bit as part of everyday life, dont you? Theres parts of cities that you avoid or avoid at certain times. Theres groups that you might cross the road to avoid if you see them gathered. You probably fear those groups you mention because you dont know who they are, you dont have confidence in the government to have vetted them, you might be victim to some of the petty crime that they are engaged in due to the reasons i listed above. I remember the NIMBY uproar when travellers would move into the field down the road or next door. Its no different. Some of the things I saw then dont bear repeating but i will say that the fears were founded in some cases. A lot of very decent folk but put them in the wrong situation or environment and it could change really quickly.



When you see the riots last night and a couple of years ago, it is clear that the scummy and racist elements attach themelves to it - in a way that unfortunately shifts the dialogue away from where there is real and legitimate concerns that should be talked about. I have a lot of sympathy for the immigrants who are in these centres and the fear they must feel in those situations and i dont think its right that many of them have been there for years with nothing to do. Thats not their fault, that is our collective fault. For me, the bottom line is about the services like housing, healthcare, education. The basics. I would accept the immigration policy as it is today but only with a corresponding increase in taxes to fund enhanced social services and address the long standing issues around property ownership and housing.

Ah you're just a massive racist Stu......

Joking, very good post!