It's not worth your time. Sometimes it's better to say nothing as there are people on here who love to jump on anything negative towards the League of Ireland at any given opportunity.Originally Posted by CSAD
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
The league of ireland is poor though that's the reality. It's good entertainment and the crowds are good so that's a real.positive but the quality is poor. That doesn't matter as long as we aren't depending on the league to provide all.our international players. If the best % still move to Europe at 16 into good academies then I think the mix of lads getting opportunities at 16 or 17 in the league here combined with the european lads who have a higher quality ceiling will work well internationally for us at senior level.
The problem 10 or 15 years ago was that youth football was getting so many players hoovered up by English teams just to make up numbers in academies that league of ireland clubs had very few young players of sufficient quality to bring into their first team squads so lads who would have benefited from playing league of ireland at 17 or 18 missed out
That "poor level at a young age in a poor coachng environment" seems to be working okay for our underage international teams though.
The playing level of the League of Ireland is not top tier European football, but the constant scoffing at the level of coaching underage players get here compared to European counterparts is what irks me. It wouldn't matter if any young player coming out of an English academy has a rough start to life in English senior football. They need to be given time. But the immediate writing off of a young player who has come out of the League of Ireland seems to be something a group of posters on here revel in.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
I dont think anyone is reveling in it Nigel. Yes the LOI is serving the underage teams quite well but the gap to senior football is enormous. Lads are getting the benefit of playing with senior players that seems to be helping at u17 and u19 level but the benefit of that playing time, as of yet is not carrying across to senior football. Seeing the likes of Ross Tierney, Dawson Devoy, Darragh Burns, Johnny Kenny coming back to the league after not making any impression across the water has taken the wind out of the sails a bit for how good we think some of these young players might be. Andy Lyons for my money has been the best player in the league in recent years and one I really thought could be an Ireland squad fixture by now, but hes in obscurity.
I wish we had a conveyor belt of players every season that we were seeing generating money for LOI clubs by going away and excelling but its just not happening and the results in Europe are also showing that the league just isnt in a great place from a talent point of view at the moment.
Its really not that complicated!!!
The quality of the league really doesn't matter at his age, what matters is he's playing games at senior level. And like I said its just being used as a convenient excuse because the fact of the matter is he's been at Sheffield United for 6 months now so the blame lies with them as to why he hasn't kicked on.
As Nigel also said, if the level of coaching the LOI's get is so poor why are they able to compete consistently with their European counter parts at underage level? Surely if this is true Ireland would be in pot 4 at u17 & u19 level and getting battered every year at these respective level?
Well the likes of Tierney, Devoy, Burns and Kenny each made horrendous career decisions and are now facing the consequences for those decision, something Curtis has unfortunately followed also. For me that's the biggest concern more than anything, whatever about how good or bad the players are what is clear is they are not giving themselves the best chance of declaring with their career decisions.
The only one I'd make an exception to is Lyons and what was encouraging in his case was he was able to seamlessly transfer over to the championship and perform, sadly though he's had a lot of injuries to deal with including 1 serious one and I believe his father sadly passed away which ofcourse he was given time off for.
I dont think Europe is evidence of a lack of talent, its more evidence of a lack of money...the reality is experience his huge in Europe and LOI club just cant afford international players that clubs even like Celje can.
We cant keep blaming the clubs that players go to for them not succeeding. If theres a common thread of players not being successful across multiple clubs, then maybe its just the players not being good enough rather than the clubs fault. Personal responsibility has to be a big factor.
As for Europe, Celje is one thing, but we have struggled with Gibraltar teams this summer.... thats not acceptable
Its really not that complicated!!!
In this instance I think you can, I remember every one of those moves and I was not surprised in the slightest that everyone of them failed, it was obvious just looking at the background of those clubs. They were either unstable (MK Dons) or had no clear pathway to first team football (Celtic).
The one I was disappointed in was Tierney as he did get semi regular game time there after he moved but towards the end of his second season for some reason he just fell out of favour.
I would agree about personal responsibility plays a role here, these players need to have a better understanding of what clubs to sign for and what clubs to avoid and sadly most of them haven't judging by the clubs they've signed for.
I dont mean just Celje, what I'm getting at his most clubs in Europe are able to afford International players (even if only a few) whereas Irish clubs just dont and even if they sign an international they tend to be from a pot 6 nation or of similar quality. I think especially against clubs like Gibraltar sides this can be especially important as these sort of teams their weakness can be their strength and make them challenging sides to open up, that's where you need experience at this level which the likes of Derry and Shelbourne just dont see to have. For all there struggles St Pats have had in the league it comes as no surprise to me they are looked far better in Europe than Derry and Shelbourne, its because they have plenty of players who've done it before and a manager with experience in this regard...its not a coincidence.
Im sorry CSAD I just disagree with your theory fundamentally. Too many players from the LOI have just been unsuccessful with moves to just blame the clubs they go to. Other players at those clubs play, you have to be professional enough, strong willed and good enough to beat out the man in your position to get into the team. Its just not happening.
Danny Mandriou is another example, a brilliant LOI player. I was convinced Mandriou would go on to get Ireland caps, and he did seem to be going pretty well initially, but now hes a free agent and has had his attitude questioned by Mark Kennedy while he was manager. Jack Byrne was another, I dont know how many times excuses were made for him over the years, super footballer, but not the most professional in the world.
They have been the success stories over the years like Kevin Doyle and Seamus but they are much more the exception than the rule. Ronan Coughlan is doing well unexpectedly I would say and hopefully he progresses a bit but lets stop blaming English clubs for LOI players generally not doing well over there, they get the same chances as any footballer that joins their same club.
And back to the initial point that Nigel said that people are reveling in the lack of success, I honestly think its the exact opposite. I find it infuriating. I want all these lads to go over there and be brilliant, and when I hear stories of players like Mandriou having attitude issues or whatever it drives me nuts, because that is the sort of thing that may block the English path for future LOI young players
Last edited by Razors left peg; 15/08/2024 at 12:22 AM.
Its really not that complicated!!!
League of ireland level.up.to.under 17s is a very good standard because teams are xoaxhed at that level to keep the ball and be creative just luke academy football in the UK. The problem is when the best of those players at 17 jump up to senior league of ireland the level of coaching and tactical awareness is not at the level of senior football in the UK. The under 19 league drops off in standard because the best players from 17 on are invite the senior sides now. At under 19 level internationally we tend to have UK based players either who have moved at 18 like o mahony and umeh or are of irish heritage
Probably because too many have made bad career decisions, it's been a constant issue for plenty of Irish players in England so not really a surprise its happening in the LOI also. I even look at players like Devoy and Tierney, when they resign in the LOI rather than sign for a team challenging for the title they happily sign for a their old side Bohemians that are nowhere near the top...that told me all I needed to know about these players, no ambition to develop as players just happy to go where they are comfortable which is probably why they are back in the LOI.
In Mandriou's case he's a free agent by choice as he was offered a new deal by Lincoln and he rejected it. There is talk atm that he may be off to Steaue Bucharest and he has had contact about declaring for Romania which he's seriously considering, which probably explains why he hasn't re-signed for Lincoln. But this whole situation is up in the air but supposedly that's a big reason why he's still a free agent. The player I feel bad for most of all is Andy Lyons, he's a player that I feel has career ambition, even leaving Bohemians for Rovers and took all the heat that came with that, did well and then got a move to the championship where he didn't look out of place at all. Sadly injuries have held him back but I'm convinced if he can regain his fitness he will be a player that will succeed.
Jack Byrne is just a **** tbh, every single club he's gone to his time has ended to same way...im just surprised it hasn't happened yet at Rovers tbh.
I mean this is true but I dont see how this is a factor in Curtis not developing, especially when you consider he spent 6 months at SUFC before moving to League One so whatever way you put it they must shoulder a large portion of the blame.
Agree 100% here FWIW
A high proportion of all football transfers ultimately prove to be “unsuccessful”. Was just reading that Aberdeen’s record for a transfer fee received has been broken, previously held by a RB signed by Liverpool – Calvin Ramsay. Ramsay has had a few “unsuccessful” loan spells so far since moving to Liverpool and looks like a transfer bust at this stage.
If the argument is “too many” LOI transfers to UK clubs fail (can we quantify this?), remember Sheffield got Curtis for next to nothing, certainly relative to what Liverpool paid Aberdeen for Ramsay. Worth the punt I think - Curtis has played plenty in the LOI and has been capped at multiple underage levels. If it doesn’t work out, it will hardly make a dent on Sheffield’s well-being. And maybe that’s the issue here. LOI players are available next to nothing, they are a value punt. If they work out, great. If not, it’s no biggy – no pressing financial need for clubs to persevere to make it work.
Lads, lads I've started an awful rumble here.
Everybody calma llama.
Nothing is definitive about Curtis yet.
He's had a patchy first 180 minutes, with some good bits but bad bits too & they stick out.
The whole defence are under fire. The whole defence are also kids. Too early for verdicts on this. Let's see if he can stay in the side & how things are ten games in if he does. It might improve & it doesn't have to improve loads for him to steady things.
Personally I find it an interesting discussion. Theres 2 kinds of players leaving the LOI for British clubs in the post Brexit era really, the lads who are attempting to go straight into 1st teams at the lower levels and then the others, generally younger, going into youth structures at a higher level. This is purely observational and I havent deep dived into it so I'll be wide open to correction.
The afore mentioned Devoy, Burns, Madriou, Tierney and Lyons are probably the bigger names to have gone across to go into 1st teams and not made a massive success of it. Because they are relatively big names in LOI it maybe brightens the spotlight on the lack of success, while in fairness someone like Graham Coughan is doing pretty well and Gavin Molloy has made a great start at Aberdeen. Akachukwu will be an interesting watch at Southampton to see how he goes, considering he played a fair amount for Waterford. Ogbene is the biggest success from LOI in recent years and he wasnt a big name before going across.
With the younger lads who have gone into youth teams it'll be a bit of time before we really see if that path turns out to be more successful. The likes of Umeh and O'Mahony are very promising but Killian Phillips is an example of one who probably wont make the cut at the top level just yet anyway.
Curtis is in the middle a bit, gone over with the expectation of 1st team at high level, finds himself in lower level and this season with be character building if nothing else.
Last edited by Razors left peg; 15/08/2024 at 5:29 PM.
Its really not that complicated!!!
It's worth noting all the others who have gone over, fairly under the radar, not particularly stand out LOI players, and done well, so far. The likes of Tunmise Sobowale, Roland Idowu, Ryan Graydon, Tommy Lonergan and Jack Moylan. Those are players who have only gone over in the last year or so. Even the like of Emmanuel Adegboyega who has quickly found himself in first team affairs in League Two and now Scottish Premiership after breaking through at Drogheda.
For all these high profile 'failures', there's plenty of others who make the grade, like the above, and countless others before them too.
Likewise, there's been plenty of established League One and League Two players who have come over to LOI and been utterly sh!te too.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Could it be that theres a bit of an ego thing that lads who are some of the better players in the LOI go over and suddenly find themselves being the small fish in a big pond and are not able to handle that adjustment mentally, whereas its not such a mental adjustment for some of the lesser known players?
Its really not that complicated!!!
It's possible, but I do think there's an element of inflated wages playing a part in some lads coming back. Some of the figures quoted are eye watering for a LOI level.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Personally I quite enjoy a Sam-a-llama ding dong now and again.
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
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