To settle an argument...

[ThatGuy]

with a charismatic bar-stooler against the all-ireland league, what exactly was the trouble before the Shels/Linfield match? Thanks.

[dcfcsteve]

Very minor handbags. Allegedly not even involving Shels fans. Not only negligible - but more importantly, much less touble than at :

- Most derbies in England - particularly Leeds v Man United games (included one death in their last season together) ; Newcastle v Sunderland and Southampton v Portsmouth
- ANY game involving Millwall or Cardiff fans.
- A large number of games involving fans from the likes of WBA, Portsmouth, Wolves, Swansea.
- Occasional games involving the likes of West Ham, Chelsea Shrewsbury, Charlton.
- Old Firm games (a constant source of trouble in Belfast/Derry, as well as in Glasgow and on the Larne-to-Stranraer ferry).
- Your average Saturday in English football.

Highlight all of the above to him, and then ask him what point he was trying to make exactly.....?

[ThatGuy]

Very minor handbags. Allegedly not even involving Shels fans. Not only negligible - but more importantly, much less touble than at :

- Most derbies in England - particularly Leeds v Man United games (included one death in their last season together) ; Newcastle v Sunderland and Southampton v Portsmouth
- ANY game involving Millwall or Cardiff fans.
- A large number of games involving fans from the likes of WBA, Portsmouth, Wolves, Swansea.
- Occasional games involving the likes of West Ham, Chelsea Shrewsbury, Charlton.
- Old Firm games (a constant source of trouble in Belfast/Derry, as well as in Glasgow and on the Larne-to-Stranraer ferry).
- Your average Saturday in English football.

Highlight all of the above to him, and then ask him what point he was trying to make exactly.....?

Which is what I said! The whole discussion just frustrated me immensely, as I was the only El fan arguing that an Irish league could work and the basis of the other argument was that the risk of trouble was too great with the Shels/Linfield clash proving so.

[Slash/ED]

(included one death in their last season together)

Can you imagine the coverage that would get if it happened in a Dublin derby? I didn't even know it had happened yet most people here are convinced the EL is ridden with violence and the premiership is a utopia.

[BohsFans]

- ANY game involving Millwall or Cardiff fans.

That's wrong for a start

[dcfcsteve]

That's wrong for a start

Care to elaborate BohsFans ? There's a lot more going on than appears in the news you know.

I can assure you that there is trouble of some sort or other at the majority of Cardiff City games. How do i know ? I was recently on a stag which included a couple of Soul Crew members (incidentally, on 3 year bans from every football ground in England and Wales), who provided some enlightening revelations as to what goes on. Care to tell me how you're so sure that the opposite is the truth....?

And Milwall are no different. Why do you think it's a midday kick-off for their away game at Luton tomorrow....?

[A face]

That's wrong for a start

Not a chance .... its made the BBC news at stages !!

[Macy]

Every league game in England has the potential of an off, as every club has it's firms. Can't say the same about over here, with only a few over the whole island, and even less even worthy of the name with attacks on other fans not interested in having a scrap...

[TheOwl]

Just to play devils advocate here for a minute, one of the big differences between English and Irish soccer, is how the games are policed over there.

I have been at the Sheffield derby a couple of times, it always has a very tense atmosphere, and often there are pockets of trouble inside and outside the ground, but the police seem to deal with it very quickly, I wouldn’t be confident the same would happen over here if something major kicked off.

Up in Glentoran there was no chance of trouble because the PSNI knew what they were doing, but if Glentoran or Shels fans wanted to start trouble at Tolka they could have done so with ease, ditto the Linfield fans.

Thankfully nothing major happened but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t happen in future when different clubs are involved (not going to do an Ollie here and name names ).

Having said that, it is an issue I think we have to tackle, as I think All-Ireland League is essential to the growth of domestic football in Ireland

[BohsFans]

I was at Cardiff v Millwall in Ninian Park in Dec 03 and there wasn't any trouble. Not in the ground or away from it

[WeAreRovers]

[QUOTE=dcfcsteve]- ANY game involving Millwall or Cardiff fans.
[QUOTE]

That's almost worthy of the Evening Herald in its gross generalisation. Over the last few seasons I've seen Cardiff at home v Leeds, West Ham, QPR and Forest to name a few - no trouble at any of those games.

I've been away with Cardiff to West Ham and Watford. There was trouble at the Upton Park game but a ratio of 1 in 6 is a far cry from ANY game.

Recently 14 Leeds fans were jailed after the Leeds - Cardiff game at Elland Road last season. The cop in charge of the game praised the behaviour of the Cardiff fans.

As a Rovers fan I resent the lazy stereotyping of us that we get all the time (on here as well as in the mainstream media) Cardiff get the same crap thrown at them and it's frustrating to say the least.

KOH

[Soper]

I agree, theres no noticeable trouble at cardiff matches nowadays.And when there was, it in no way reflected the other 99.95% of fans who support the team.

[mypost]

And Milwall are no different. Why do you think it's a midday kick-off for their away game at Luton tomorrow....?

On a side issue, with the new alcohol hour legislation being introduced in the UK, I hope that we will soon see an end to crappy lunchtime kick-offs, as potential troublemakers will be able to drink as long as they like before a game, and therefore not allow the police to cite the alcohol factor that determines when games can be played.

It's crazy when you consider that all the crowd trouble that takes place at flashpoint games derbies around the world, (e.g. Rome, Milan, Cairo, Buenos Aires derbies, etc) doesn't alter the kick-off times of future games there, yet the police insist that such games in the UK can only kick-off soon after breakfast, hiding behind the "alcohol" excuse to justify their decision. In future, if fans want to go on a pre-game bender, all the lunchtime kick-offs won't make a difference to fans behaviour at games, so we may see a return to more civilised kick-off times.

[BohsFans]

[QUOTE=WeAreRovers][QUOTE=dcfcsteve]- ANY game involving Millwall or Cardiff fans.

That's almost worthy of the Evening Herald in its gross generalisation. Over the last few seasons I've seen Cardiff at home v Leeds, West Ham, QPR and Forest to name a few - no trouble at any of those games.

I've been away with Cardiff to West Ham and Watford. There was trouble at the Upton Park game but a ratio of 1 in 6 is a far cry from ANY game.

Recently 14 Leeds fans were jailed after the Leeds - Cardiff game at Elland Road last season. The cop in charge of the game praised the behaviour of the Cardiff fans.

As a Rovers fan I resent the lazy stereotyping of us that we get all the time (on here as well as in the mainstream media) Cardiff get the same crap thrown at them and it's frustrating to say the least.

KOH

Rovers and Cardiff fans, now where have I heard that one before??

[hoopy]

Unfortunately it looks like the morons who are called cops won't take just about everyone else's advice re Bohs v Rovers on friday and get the Bohs fans to stay behind 10 mins instead of Rovers fans. They'll never learn