Next Senior Men's Team Manager - Runners and Riders

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Does that reflect on Page or on the passing of a golden generation that a small country can't readily replace?

The NL campaign - that showed Wales aren't at the level of Holland, Belgium and Poland. We knew that anyway. They were competitive throughout (five one-goal defeats, three of which were late winners), though I guess you could argue Kenny almost matched that against Serbia, Holland and France.

A very poor Euro qualification campaign - with four points off Croatia, semifinalists at the World Cup 12 months earlier? Harsh. I see an erratic campaign from a middling side with a middling manager.

Both playoff games were at home, sure, but we'd bite your hand off for 4-1 v Finland and 0-0 v Poland.

I don't think he's an exceptional manager, but I think he's about our level.

Nah, you’re revising and without any real conviction. The evidence has already been presented and judgement delivered. Wales have been dismal since qual for Qatar, Page has been sacked and that’s the consensus opinion.

I trust that you mean he might be good enough for a team at our level and improve upon that
He was back room staff, took over a functioning set up, it gradually got worse until it fell apart spectacularly with no coming back. We don’t know if he’s good enough, he needs to do some other job, go into coach rehab, take stock of matters.

If we are going local (B&I), Carsley ticks enough boxes for me, other than that I haven’t got a clue who’s available, competent and affordable.

Considering the sky high cost of living, nordic coaches are remarkably affordable,
And most everybody would say Denmark is the most interesting of the 6
Jon Dahl Tomasson was available, legend as player, an experienced club/intl coach but he was picked up by Sweden NT.
Iceland got Age Hareide, still relevant and the real deal.

Originally Posted by Eirambler

Yes that's true as well. The ultimate point here being that, if Sagnol is hired, it's highly unlikely to create the sh!tstorm a few posters seem to think it could. He'd be asked, would apologise, clarify or say he was misquoted or whatever and everyone would just move on.

There would be a sh*tstorm - in 2017 Sagnol was lined up to take over as manager of Ghana - shortly before he was due to be announced the media began questioning the appointment because of his racist comments. Sagnol was given an opportunity at a press conference to address the comments he made, apologise for them and give a commitment to oppose racism in the future - he failed to do any of these things and the resulting sh*tstorm forced the Ghanaian FA to withdraw the job offer. There is zero evidence that he would do anything different at an FAI press conference.

Sagnol is manager of a country that is known for widespread endemic racism - and there is not a single black player in their Euro squad. Now the positive thing is that there are currently mass protests in Georgia (some involving members of their Euro squad) against the 'foreign influence' Bill going through the Georgian parliament.

However - Sagnol getting the Ireland job would mean that a racist would be managing a squad that currently has 7-8 black players involved and the same in the U-21s. What message would it send to the black players in the Irish squad if the FAI appointed a racist as manager?

Irish society has seen an upsurge of racism, actively promoted by far-right and fascist elements (with their 'single black men of military age' etc) - you can be sure that if there is a hint of a racist like Sagnol getting the job there will be pushback against it.

Off topic posts removed. If you want to continue the discussion, use the current affairs forum

Originally Posted by geysir

The evidence has already been presented and judgement delivered. Wales have been dismal since qual for Qatar, Page has been sacked and that’s the consensus opinion.

Interesting summary of Page's time in the Wales job here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football...s/cprr898dnz0o

My own view is that he was probably as good as any Wales were going to get for the salary, only two things did for him:
1. Losing Bale and Ramsey when he did, a decisive factor in Coleman's "successes" previously;
2. Losing Mooney's confidence, then the fans'.

Originally Posted by geysir

Wales have been dismal since qual for Qatar

Despite taking four points off the World Cup semi-finalists and coming within a sudden-death penalty shoot-out of reaching the Euros?

There's a suggestion in the BBC article there that the June friendlies (with an experimental team) played a decent part in him being sacked - and to be honest any FA that judges things on June friendlies needs their heads examined.

I'm sure he had his flaws, but dismal? Nah, that's not "dismal" for me; sorry.

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

Sagnol is manager of a country that is known for widespread endemic racism - and there is not a single black player in their Euro squad.

**** me - there's not a single black player in the Georgia squad, said as if this is some sort of Sagnol conspiracy! Have you ever been to Georgia?

People find the most insane things to get offended over.

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

**** me - there's not a single black player in the Georgia squad, said as if this is some sort of Sagnol conspiracy! Have you ever been to Georgia?

People find the most insane things to get offended over.

I understood that post as meaning thats the only demographic type country he could get employment in.

He sure didn't work as a full time manager anywhere else after the Bordeaux incident. Not for years. Until Georgia threw him a bone.

Now why would a coach as clearly capable as he is, be unemployed for almost half a decade in his coaching prime I wonder.

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

**** me - there's not a single black player in the Georgia squad, said as if this is some sort of Sagnol conspiracy! Have you ever been to Georgia?

People find the most insane things to get offended over.

People read what they want to read into comments - to clarify for you - Georgia is a country with endemic racism with widespread discrimination against ethnic minorities. To the best of my knowledge there isn't a single player from an ethnic minority in the squad (apart from possibly Tsitaishvili - who has some Ukrainian ancestry - Ukrainians are not a recognised ethnic minority in Georgia). Guram Kasha was subjected to widespread abuse when he came out in support of LGBTQ+ rights a number of years ago.

In terms of Sagnol's appointment - his racism wasn't an issue for a FA that is part and parcel of the endemic racism in Georgia and given the level of racism in Georgian football there was little issue among the broader support base either.

I get offended by racism and I fight it wherever I see it. Sagnol is a racist and I will be shouting loudly about it as soon as there is a hint the FAI are considering hiring him (assuming he leaves his current job).

Originally Posted by CSAD

Our prospect literally couldn't play any worse than they currently are... the only possible way with a qualified manager is up. But the squad isnt a chicken or a sow's ear...its a squad valued at over 200m Euro which puts it in the top 20 teams in Europe...if you have a squad with that valuation and are not even competing to qualify for major tournaments then there is something seriously going wrong.

What do the valuations of particular players mean if you have no midfield!

Originally Posted by CSAD

Ahhh so now the valuation doesn't matter...it matted a lot when the squad was only about 100m and barely in the top 30 in Europe though didnt it, but when it doesnt suit you're argument it's irrelevant. Like what was said earlier it one of the best ways of impartiality judging a squad and you can try twist reality all you want but these are the facts.

I said that citing the valuations of those particular players: Ferguson, Collins, O'Brien and Kelleher, and then drawing a correlation between those figures and the prospects of the national side is a foolish thing to do because we have no quality whatsoever in midfield. Midfield's the most important part of the pitch.

Those valuations are also based off potential, and contain a Premier League tax (except for O'Brien). Kelleher isn't a No.1 yet, O'Brien has just emerged this season and Ferguson is still only 19. In other words, some perspective is needed here.

Originally Posted by CSAD

No offence but that Guardiola argument is garbage, it might be the case at the very top of the game but in the middle/bottom the game is the same it always has been.

I disagree. You see it, or at least the attempt at it, throughout the game now.

Originally Posted by CSAD

What we see in the game nowadays is tactics are more important than ever, this "hit n hope" nonsense of the Trap/O'Neill era is long gone and to be competitive you need a management team that are in line with the modern game or at least semi competent tactically....which we simply haven't had in forever really.

I'm not advocating for 'hit and hope' nonsense.

Originally Posted by CSAD

Our expectations are reasonable, simply can we be moderately competitive and not play like a minnow...it honestly shouldn't take THAT much for a manager to accomplish that. We were competitive for 2016,2018 & 2020 tournament and qualifiers with a worse squad so I dont see the how asking to be competitive is setting the bar too high.

I'd hope for any manager to make us moderately competitive, but as for substantial changes in our fortunes I just don't see how that's accomplished with, you guessed it, our midfield. C'est la vie!

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

People read what they want to read into comments - to clarify for you - Georgia is a country with endemic racism with widespread discrimination against ethnic minorities. To the best of my knowledge there isn't a single player from an ethnic minority in the squad (apart from possibly Tsitaishvili - who has some Ukrainian ancestry - Ukrainians are not a recognised ethnic minority in Georgia). Guram Kasha was subjected to widespread abuse when he came out in support of LGBTQ+ rights a number of years ago.

In terms of Sagnol's appointment - his racism wasn't an issue for a FA that is part and parcel of the endemic racism in Georgia and given the level of racism in Georgian football there was little issue among the broader support base either.

I get offended by racism and I fight it wherever I see it. Sagnol is a racist and I will be shouting loudly about it as soon as there is a hint the FAI are considering hiring him (assuming he leaves his current job).

Re: the bold it's more correct to say that you believe he's a racist. There isn't definitive proof that he is, rather it's a belief, and racism itself exists on a spectrum or continuum. I'm also generally uncomfortable with the lack of redemption that seems more prevalent in society nowadays, but that's very much a side issue here.

I don't think there's a chance of Sagnol getting the job in any case.

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Off topic posts removed. If you want to continue the discussion, use the current affairs forum

The current affairs section is pretty much dead. You may as well tell people to discuss it privately.

Originally Posted by The Fly

The current affairs section is pretty much dead. You may as well tell people to discuss it privately.

It'll only stay dead if you don't start a discussion there

Maybe Steve Clarke will be available soon.

Originally Posted by osarusan

Maybe Steve Clarke will be available soon.

I'd take him ~ ~ He could do with some Irish Crack in him mind !

Just give it to Chris Hughton already!

Clarke is definitely underappreciated in Scotland. They didn't get out of their group but to make a team with a keeper and back line of Gunn, Ralston, Hendry, Hanley and McKenna remotely competitive at a tournament finals is actually quite an achievement.

He's been papering over the cracks in that Scottish defence as well as up front for five years now, but they've the oldest squad in the tournament so maybe it's time for him to move on and leave their somewhat deluded fans to their misery.

In my opinion that was a penalty for Scotland and that would have put a different complexion on how that game went last night.

Originally Posted by seanfhear

In my opinion that was a penalty for Scotland and that would have put a different complexion on how that game went last night.

For someone who spent two years talking about lucky generals, you’ve gone a full 180 degrees

Originally Posted by elatedscum

For someone who spent two years talking about lucky generals, you’ve gone a full 180 degrees

Ya got me ~ ~ Ruling Clarke out ~ ~ He is too miserable anyway and unlucky to boot !

Originally Posted by seanfhear

Ya got me ~ ~ Ruling Clarke out ~ ~ He is too miserable anyway and unlucky to boot !

Is Moyes a realistic option? Probably get better offers with better pay, but might just be tempted by a less stressful spell as an international manager?

Originally Posted by third policeman

Is Moyes a realistic option? Probably get better offers with better pay, but might just be tempted by a less stressful spell as an international manager?

You'd doubt that we have the kind of money to get Moyes ~ He certainly would be a very good candidate if he was interested in international management and in managing us.