This whole caveating appears to hinge on your assertion that you were correcting a typo as opposed to a factual misstatement (Series A v Serie B).Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Apologies on behalf of those (myself included) that are skeptical as to whether a) it was a typo and b) you even believe a) to be true yourself.
Nope. elatedscum had a clear caveat in his post, which I fairly clearly referenced at the time - "To play devils advocate (I don't really believe this - but this is how you're looking at the england u21s)"
His point (as I read it - I'll let him correct me if I've picked him up wrong) is that he was mirroring JRG's rather selective analysis of the England U21 team with a similarly selective view of the Irish panel. So for Ferguson - "Only started 10 premier league games last season". Technically true if you want to be dismissive, but I don't think anyone would really describe Ferguson that way (certainly I wouldn't). I don't think Serie A "is a long way from PL" either (Ebosele) - it's a lower standard, sure, but I don't think it's a long way from it.
And a forward who has one goal in three months (Connolly) could, on that basis, certainly be said to be struggling. (That said, I don't think he's a "very good Championship player" yet; let's see if he can keep on track for 15 goals throughout the season rather than judging him half-way through, cos he's never shown himself able to last a full senior season yet)
So when you said "going down through our entire squad with the clear intention of cutting them down is pretty mad and feels a little pointless" - as far as I can see you completely missed the point of elatedscum's point, caught up by the usual outrage reaction to any sort of criticism of Irish players. But actually it's a quite reasonable post - and, if we're honest, twisting the truth isn't really required for many players.
Last edited by pineapple stu; 21/12/2023 at 8:47 PM.
Yeah, I'll let them correct you if you're wrong. Again, a long post built on a big assumption, in this case that elatedscum's post represented a piece of "rather selective analysis" as opposed to their actual views.
And, regardless, their post represented a tad more than "any sort of criticism of Irish players." I think anyone could objectively see it as more than that. It was a line by line take down, with a clear focus on the downside and whether that was intended or otherwise I think people could reasonably take umbrage with the post without it being described as "the usual outrage reaction".
You're literally still ignoring the key point even after it's been explained in detail to you!
I'm assuming elated's post didn't represent his actual views because it contains the line "To play devils advocate (I don't really believe this - but this is how you're looking at the england u21s)"
I don't really see how much clearer that could have been
And that's why it's wrong (in my view) to get offended by it as "a line by line take down, with a clear focus on the downside".
To continue to argue that "people could reasonably take umbrage with the post without it being described as "the usual outrage reaction" is, again, to completely miss the point of it. Hence the caveat you're still ignoring
And it has evolved for everybody - so I would argue that the comparison is valid.
You are correct - so far none of Connolly, Idah, Parrott or Obafemi have developed as well as their earlier potential indicated they might. All still have time - Connolly and Obafemi are 23 - Idah is 22 and Parrott is 21 and could still contribute (I think Idah is the most likely).
But you are correct about the current team - it is full of young players who have still to mature and is probably the worst Irish team since the late 1960s/very early 70s in terms of results and standing.
I also would agree that a large part of that is down to Kenny and that this squad of players is capable of doing much better than what Kenny was able to produce - this doesn't mean that it is still not the worst team in quite a while, but hopefully we don't have to wait too long for them to start fulfilling some of the potential they have.
Last edited by Jolly Red Giant; 22/12/2023 at 9:33 AM.
Rosenior has repeatedly said that he hasn't been match fit and that it could take quite a few weeks for him to get fit - he has been having some niggly injuries, but more importantly he just lost all his physical fitness probably through a combination of injuries and too much party time. I think Rosenior is being very smart with him - keeping the pressure off, letting him get his head right, not putting too much fan expectations on him, and letting him grow up a bit. Connolly has talent - the problem has always been what is going on in his head.
So, It doesn't look like Santy Claus is getting us a new manager for Christmas then !
He gave us Eileen Gleeson, cant be over working him and expecting 2 in a week!
Its really not that complicated!!!
Better than Big Sam coming down your chimney and filling your stocking out of the blue for Christmas Seanie ..... nobody wants to see that.
Have a look at Connollys goal today and tell me he's not a very good player
Its really not that complicated!!!
Not long after goal, injures the toe that's been the problem for him and he's telling the bench he has to come off. HT now, I'd say his night is done. So frustrating
Edit:must have got the magic sponge at ht, stays on
Last edited by Razors left peg; 22/12/2023 at 8:53 PM.
Its really not that complicated!!!
Really found this review of 2023 a great read and decent reflection on the ups and downs, the civil and cultural war, the various factions and how the future is looking.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023...y-fizzled-out/
Happy New Year to all fellow footiers. Hopefully we’ll have more to be happy about in 2024 than we did in 2023 but the one thing is certain - there’ll be no shortage of topics for this group to debate!! Wishing you all the best.In assessing the Kenny reign, supporters could well argue that Ireland were inevitably bound for a difficult, transitional era regardless of who was in charge and that the regeneration of the squad that began under his watch will bear fruit down the line.
Perhaps the ultimate failure of the Kenny project will focus minds on the deeper problems, notably a grossly underfunded academy structure, which pales in comparison with practically everywhere else in Europe.
Was only thinking about this thread actually - or specifically, the lack of any news on a new manager. Wonder if a caretaker is an option for March?
Anyways, echo what you say about 2024 - we may have our disagreements on herebut in the end of the day we're all on the same side, and there's some really great discussion here more often than not. Nice to see a few new posters joining lately too. All the best for 2024 - a win or two would be sweet!
Who would even step in as caretaker for two games. All the coaching staff were let go and the U21s have a qualifier. Is Noel King still involved with the FAI.
Mypost.
Happy New Year to you all.
Happy New Year all, may we live in interesting times
Happy New Year.
We do live in interesting times and with General Artificial Intelligence just around the corner ( if not already here ) We sure are going to live in interesting times in the future.
Have always thought of Conor Neville as one of the more underrated Irish sports writers. Overall a very good article, the only small issue I'd have is with him saying Kenny never resorted to bemoaning the quality of players he was picking from - he absolutely did so that, having initially oversold them to a fairly ridiculous extent.
My wish for 2024 is that we get a manager who is more uniting of the support, whoever the new man is. Kenny was always going to play to a certain very vocal faction, one that I think are basically wrong in almost everything they think they know about football. Now that that viewpoint has been so publicly found out as pointed out in that article, we need someone who can reunite the support and be pragmatic to get the best out of the team, but at the same time without resorting to complete neanderthal tactics of times past.
Which faction? LOI fans?
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