Any / Many green-shoots coming from Michael O Neill's team at the moment ~ ~ We are on the look out for a capable manager (wink)Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Interesting to read Kilbane's takes on the various parties involved, presumably from what he sees as a safe enough distance away in North America:
The FAI - a worldwide laughing stock
O'Shea - inexperienced and underwhelming as interim manager
Poyet - a journeyman looking for one of his last stops in a mediocre career
Hill - embarrassing, has damaged the association's reputation, setting the FAI back years
Canham - rhetoric straight from the coaching badge courses - fake it until you make it.
Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone
There is no doubt that Bloom's ownership was and continues to be a key component of Brighton's success - he is one of the few owners who takes a hands on approach AND knows what he is doing.
As for Hughton - the person responsible for his sacking was not Bloom - it was Dan Ashworth. Ashworth is ruthless (more so in terms of his own ambition than anything else) and he was appointed by Bloom in February 2019 because Bloom felt he needed someone with a ruthless streak to oversee player signings. Ashworth immediately began undermining Hughton at Brighton. Two days before Hughton was sacked he held a four and a half hour long meeting with Bloom to discuss plans for the following season and transfer targets for the summer - and Bloom gave every indication to Hughton that he would be manager for the following season. It could reasonably be assumed that over the following 48 hours Ashworth shafted Hughton and convinced Bloom to sack him (and then bring in Ashworth's pal - Graham Potter - who is now being touted as Ten Haag's replacement if Ashworth joins Man U).
With hindsight the move clearly appears justified - although it could just as easily have blown up in their faces. Nobody knows how well Hughton would have done in season 3. But - and this is important - Hughton laid the foundation for the later success at Brighton. He was responsible for bringing the likes Pascal Gross, Viktor Gyökeres (who Brighton sold to Coventry after Hughton was gone for £1m and is now being touted as a €100m player), Jason Steele, Yves Bissouma, Alexis MacAllister and Dan Burn - and developing the likes of Solly March, Robert Sanchez and Ben White. Within weeks of Hughton being sacked Brighton significantly increased their playing budget (under Hughton it was bottom three in the PL with the entire Southampton starting eleven who finished just above Brighton, earning more than the highest paid player at Brighton) - and they broke their transfer record four times in succession to strengthen the squad over the summer. Hughton kept Brighton in the PL with a Championship level squad - he was never given the opportunity to have PL quality players (he did at Newcastle and was very successful before Ashley sacked him to give the job to his gambling partner). Brighton have been successful in consolidating as a PL club over the past four years and fair play to them - I hope it keeps going for them because they are one of the few clubs in the top two divisions owned by a genuine fan of the club (even if he is a billionaire). And by the way - I still think Potter is a spoofer - Brighton always had a very soft underbelly when he was managing them.
Maybe I read too much into his references to Carsley before but even if he's informed by Carsley or other sources (since he left for Canada he's not going to be as familiar with current regime), he is very damning.
It would add up to deduce that Carsley would like the gig - but not now with these plonkers in situ.
He made a point regarding Hill flying over and back which was interesting. Said he had to work for Newstalk nightly on Off the Ball to truly understand Irish football himself.
At what point does early April become mid April? Was the theory that an announcement was going to be issued on the 10th, once the Ireland England Women’s game was done?
I think if we dont hear anything solid by this Friday we know they are in deep sh1t. But I think I've said before that if they genuinely thought they had Carsley for example and he fcuked them over last minute I think they need to come out a say that. We dont need more spin or "the process is ongoing and we are happy with it". It should be "We had our man, he decided last minute to change his mind after committing to us so we are now continuing our search".
Its really not that complicated!!!
Actually there are - quite encouraging just lately.
Two hopes - None and Bob.
And even if he were interested - which he isn't btw - the FAI couln't afford him. Seriously. I mean, even the Scottish FA couldn't match the IFA's package last time round, leaving them to settle for Alec McLeish instead, he having been out of work for nearly two years, following 4 months at some Egyptian club.
Mid-July - when the racist is out of contract.
There is no way Bloom would have agreed to the sacking of any manager on the mere say-so of a Technical Director, and a recently appointed one at that. For just as Brian Clough used to say that no manager ever signed a player - it's always the Chairman's signature on the cheque - so it is with the appointment, or dismissal, of a manager, and especially so with a hands-on Chairman like Bloom.
Except that had eg Potter not worked out, it's not as if Bloom and Ashworth couldn't have found another manager. Just as eg they found De Zerbi after Potter left.
See my previous general comment about signing players.
While Bloom was one of the very first club owners in England (the first?) fully to embrace and exploit statistical-based player scouting and recruitment methods. I cannot believe that an old-school manager like CH was heavily involved in that, even if he was open to accepting and developing the players who were being signed.
Do you reckon that Ashworth possesses some sort of Svengali-like influence over Bloom, persuading him to take actions which he otherwise wouldn't have considered, including wielding the chequebook like never before?
Or might it not be that Bloom, having decided that Hughton having done a good job, but also taken the club as far as he could, determined that it was time for the club to go to the next level? Which inter alia would necessitate a new recruitment set-up and Manager to spend the extra money which he hadn't been prepared to entrust to previous managers.
As I said, have you never wondered why not? I mean, it's not as if Bloom is an idiot; on the contrary, his decision-making is top class.
Sorry, but they haven't merely "consolidated", they've continued to progress, first with Potter, subsequently with De Zerbi.
Think of it like a 4 x 100m relay race. Hughton may have run a good anchor leg, before Potter took the baton and made further progress before handing over to De Zerbi, who looks to be running a fine bend. If/when he leaves, then he'll be handing over to the next manager, who can hope to capitalise and take them home to a podium finish.
But either way, decent manager though he is, there is no real evidence on his CV that Hughton had what it took to swap places with the others.
You may be right. Time - and his next appointment - will tell whether BHA was his limit, or whether he's still got more to offer.
Last edited by EalingGreen; 08/04/2024 at 9:48 PM.
Okay - let's deal with this
Ashworth was undermining Hughton from the moment he was hired - Bloom hired Ashworth and if he wasn't going to listen then he never would have. From day one Ashworth wanted Potter and he set out to make it happen. 48 hours before he was sacked, Bloom and Hughton met for four and a half hours to discuss plans for the following season - Hughton is as honest as the day is long and he said that every indication from Bloom at that meeting was that he would be manager the following season. Bloom has never contradicted this. It is clear that Ashworth was the catalyst for Hughton's sacking.
Bloom had owned the club since 2009 - in that time he has had success with RDZ, Potter and Hughton - he has also hired plonkers like Sami Hyppia, Oscar Garcia, Martin Hinshelwood and Russell Slade - and the nutcase that is Gus Poyet. He is not infallible.
Here you are now talking nonsense - Yes Bloom uses statistical methods in all aspects of the club - but he is not stupid enough to rely solely on statistics. You are also talking nonsense about Hughton - who has always been regarded as a student of the game.
Hughton is not old-school - he is a realist - he looks at what he has available and he sets his team up accordingly. When he has players capable he will play an attacking game - when he doesn't he will set-up his team not to lose. At Newcastle he had quality players, played attacking football and had the team in the top half of the PL when he was sacked by Ashley. At Brighton in the Championship his team was one of the most attacking in the division and got promoted with 93 points. In the PL Brighton had a Championship squad and Hughton's job was to keep them in the PL - which he did for two seasons - a remarkable achievement with the players he had available.
As to the players signed by Brighton - MacAllister was a Hughton signing - as was Gross, Propper, Izquierdo, Locadia, Andone, Steele, Bissouma and Dan Burn - they are all Hughton-type players. He wasn't responsible for signing Ryan, Alzate, Button, Jahanbakhsh, Tau, - they are not players Hughton would sign. What his team did lack was pace - and that was a problem they weren't able to overcome with the budget available.
No - but I do believe that Ashworth was constantly in Bloom's ear - undermining Hughton. Remember this - by keeping Brighton in the PL Hughton brought £200m into the club - yet in his second season of the players signed by Brighton, several were free transfers. The most expensive was Bissouma who signed for £15m. Burn was signed for £3m from Wigan, MacAllister for £7m. The summer after Hughton was sacked Brighton spent more on players than they had in the previous two years - including £18m for Trossard (Hughton would not have been in favour of signing him), £19m for Maupay (again - not a Hughton type player), £20 for Webster and £20m for Mooy - and £5m for Lamptey (Trossard sold to Arsenal for slight more than Brighton paid - Maupay sold to Everton at a loss - Mooy ended up in China - and most Brighton fans regard Webster as a busted flush - not exactly setting the world alight). Potter was lucky with the kids that came through and the backbone of the team built by Hughton.
There is no argument that things have worked out well for Brighton - and they have kept the momentum going with RDZ (although the wheels have come off a little of late). But it cannot be predicted how Hughton would have performed if given the money that was spent after he was sacked.
The argument about taking the club as far as he could is valid - but there is a flaw in your argument - either Bloom was being a complete a*sehole in his post-season meeting with Hughton and always intended to sack him, deciding to string him along just to be extra cruel (and there is no indication that Bloom is that type of character) - or Ashworth got in on the act after the meeting (far more likely). After his sacking Hughton was nothing but complementary in his comments about Bloom - he never mentioned Ashworth.
As I have already pointed out - Bloom has hired some donkeys as managers - and a lot of the transfers since Hughton was sacked have not worked out. What Bloom does deserve credit for is building one of the best academy structures in the PL - they are a production line of talent - half the team has come through the academy (including Ferguson) and several more are out on loan and performing in the Championship.
Hughton's first season Brighton finished 15th - second season 17th - Potter's first season Brighton finished 15th - second season 16th - third season 9th (built on a very good start - the rest of the season not so much). RDZ last season 6th - this season currently 10th and will probably finish 10-12 range. I regard that as consolidation in the PL - and it has taken 6 years to end up as a regular mid-table team - with a lot of transfer money spent - and, more significantly, a doubling of the playing budget.
Brighton have an opportunity of having a prolonged stay in the PL - with an occasional European run - but getting beyond mid-table is beyond them because Bloom does not have the same resources as the top six clubs. Bloom's main source of income is through his betting syndicates, and that can go belly-up at any time.
I disagree - the one opportunity to show what he could do with a decent squad he was successful - with Newcastle - 102 points winning the Championship and he knew he had a team in the PL that wouldn't get relegated and he really opened up the playbook (for want of a better description).
I think Potter has always been a spoofer - his time Östersund was a myth, bringing an unknown club to the top division with no money - for it to emerge afterwards that the chairman was running a massive fraud and funneling massive amounts of money into the club under the table. Potter ran out of Sweden just before the who scandal broke and the club chairman spent three years in jail. He then ended up with Swansea when the 'great mind' that Potter was supposed to be was more flash than substance. Swansea had just been relegated - had the wad of parachute payments. At then end of March in Potter's only season they were 15th and in a downward spiral - they got a run of three wins and ended up two months later in 10th in one of the weakest Championships in several years before or since. I have outlined his time at Brighton - 15th, 16th and then 9th based on a good start to the season. Then disaster at Chelsea. All of Potter's teams have had a very soft underbelly - playing pretty football - but can be torn asunder in an instant - and he will continue in this vein. He will be a disaster for Man Utd where he will likely end up if Ashworth gets the job - Man Utd already have a major soft underbelly and Potter will not be able to fix it.
Last edited by Jolly Red Giant; 08/04/2024 at 11:32 PM.
Now - I get it - Hughton is 65 years old - Forest was a disaster and while I think people underestimate what he did with Ghana, it didn't end well (and Hughton took responsibility for that). He has a good record. Most PL managers spend less than 2 seasons in the PL - Hughton has more than double that, as well as getting two clubs promoted out of the Championship and getting a third into the play-offs. He also has experience as an international manager (with an FA that is worse than the FAI), including at a major championship (and was 3 minutes of injury time from getting out of the group). Would Hughton set the world on fire as Irish manager - I doubt it - but look at who is in the frame for the job. A misogynist with a poor club record - a spoofer with little club experience - an angry pundit who was a bully as a manager - a racist with a spotty managerial record - a guy who gets two interim games but has a bad coaching record. Who else is there?
Maybe what Ireland needs to do for the next couple of years is to steady the ship and allow the kids to grow - and Hughton would be a safe pair of hands - he would be 100% committed and his Irish team would be hard to beat and would give 100% every game. In two years time Hughton would have either shown that he could bring the team forward - or that the team now needed someone to come in and maximise the potential.
What other options currently exist?
Looking at the odds out of curiosity.
There are 3 in the 3/1 to 4/1 range:
John O'Shea, Gus Poyet and Anthony Barry.
If I thought it were indicative of anything I would take solace in the fact that Barry is similarly priced to the other pair.
In actuality, there's nothing to read into it aside from a little bit of money coming from hopelessly hopeful punters.
Anthony Barry into 2/1 since I posted the above and he's shorter in place.
I've been in Portugal last few weeks and I've heard multiple times that he's strongly linked with taking over Sporting after Amorim leaves. I'd be shocked if we got him, but at this stage he'd be an appointment most could get behind.
Its really not that complicated!!!
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...522251375.html
Probably more chance of Carsley being the next manager than Barry. Honestly don't know what the FAI think they can offer him at this stage when he's being linked with Sporting and Portugal likely one of the favourites for the Euros. Could double the wage Kenny was on and doubt he'd take it.
Yeah, that's my thinking too.
But here we are, around the time the FAI said they'd be unveiling a new manager, and they're off making fresh offers to probably the least likely of the names bandied about since last November.
This is car crash stuff really; riveting for all the wrong reasons.
Agree with you both. This comes across as a complete hail mary from the FAI here with little to no chance of landing. This is all a bit of a disaster.
oh to be a fly on the wall...This is car crash stuff really; riveting for all the wrong reasons.
There'd be a lot of Packie Bonner just eating all the ham sandwiches and drinking tae i'd say.
Oh to be reading a wikipedia summary after the fact. Living through this in real time is just constant disappointment.
At this stage, it feels like we're going to give it to someone who once heard about football on the radio, and who strangles prostitutes recreationally. And we're going to overpay them.
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