Umm - I presume you mean "dismissed it as not being racist"?Originally Posted by LurcherLover
I'd be inclined to give him benefit of the doubt except the comparison he made was to Scandinavians. I think that's pretty telling.
Umm - I presume you mean "dismissed it as not being racist"?
Dwight Yorke also said that Ron Atkinson isn't a racist despite him being caught on air referring to Desailly 'what is known in some schools as a ****ing lazy, thick n****r'.
Its really not that complicated!!!
Sorry, yes dismissed it as not being racist.
Ah OK, yes that definitely means that Sagnol is racist. You should of said. Can someone contact the relevant media outlets and inform them that Sagnols friends, colleagues etc who come from Africa, or African descent and came out to back him as not being racist, are actually wrong and that Razors left peg on foot.ie said that Dwight Yorke said that Ron Atkinson isn't racist but he actually is, so that also means that Sagnol is racist also. You might want to mention that Razor was only made aware of this yesterday.
Lads, calm down. Razors is welcome to draw the conclusions he has, as is everyone else. Post your reasoning if you like, but cut out the aggro.
You can't spell failure without FAI
You know what my point was, but you and some others seem comfortable with lazy stereotypical old racist tropes being thrown around and wouldn't have a problem with someone who think like that in charge of our national team. I didn't want Lennon because of the allegations against him of threatening a woman either. Call me old fashioned but I have high moral standards for this sort of thing.
You bring up those that were willing to defend Sagnol, what about the likes of Patrick Vieira and others who were disgusted by his comments
Its really not that complicated!!!
Honestly I think it's disgusting to even compare a serial offending vile individual using racial slurs with a man who said something open to interpretation thoughtlessly one time, apologised immediately and had that apology accepted by everyone around him. In your own words "Do Better".
There is a big difference between what Atkinson said and what Sagnol said but i get the point you are making about the merits of words of defense. Rather than hang on the comparison to young Scandinavian players as an indicator as to whether he is or is not racist, it matters that his comments were referring to young African players and gives credence to his later clarifications. If he had initially said "black players", then game on as far as i am concerned and hard to worm your way out of that kind of statement.
On another note, that last sentence - you are basically accusing posters here of being racist too. That's not fair at all, Razor.
edit: Razor's comment was deleted
I mean, they could be wrong?
What a stupid comment (from here). African players aren't expensive when you sign them (from an African club). What's the problem there? (New Caledonia isn't even in Africa!) Are Everton fans racist when they sing about how little they paid for Séamus Coleman?Lens coach Antoine Kombouare, who was born in New Caledonia, also was offended. "Let's make things clear: This is not a case of him being clumsy. He's really messed up," Kombouare said. "What he said is serious. It's unacceptable. Explaining that an African player is cheaper ... I felt humiliated and hurt."
Sagnol clarified fairly well when he said -
I also like this comment from Stephen Fry on offence -When I spoke about the African [player] who is cheaper and ready for combat, I simply meant to talk about the young African player arriving in Europe with all of his will to win, and often to escape from a precarious situation. Then, since we were in a debate about football, the intelligence I spoke of was obviously related to tactical intelligence. The forming of young players in Africa, probably because of a lack of financial means, or [lack] of infrastructure, isn't always as complete as what's available in Europe.
Now if Sagnol had said he didn't like black players because they were thick, that would have been a different matter. But that's not what he said.It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that." As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more than a whine. "I find that offensive." It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I am offended by that." Well, so ****ing what.
Last edited by pineapple stu; 25/03/2024 at 4:52 PM.
I deleted the last post Stu because I wrote in anger, but I do think there is a hint of truth to it with some.
Its really not that complicated!!!
Looking over the thread, no one is defending racism and to regard anyone as racist or defending it for merely pointing out what many black players close to Sagnol have said, is ridiculous. Saying that anyone defending it is just wrong is ridiculous. Also, to try and label someone as racist if they say there is a stereotypical African player is ridiculous. Is there a stereotypical south American player? If I think there is, am I racist? Are those black players who accepted his apology for what it is racist? It's almost humorous how someone who read an article yesterday about something that happened 10yrs ago, can be so righteous on the matter, to a point were they are labelling someone who disagrees with them the same term. Honest question, if an African friend of Sagnol who played with him and is still currently very close to him, to a point were their families regularly holiday together, told you he wasn't racist, would you disagree with him and tell him he's wrong? Because.......
RTE news : O'Shea content to 'wait and see' what happens next
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/...-happens-next/
O'Shea saying let's see what happens when asked about his future. If he knew he absolutely wouldn't be getting the job wouldn't he just come out and say something like " I'd love to do this full time in future, but the FAI have made it clear they have their man for April".
Its really not that complicated!!!
Interestingly those comments wouldn't preclude him being involved in the new regime as an assistant or coach.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
It's mental that we are this long into it and we haven't got a clue what's going on. It's either gonna be the greatest reveal ever or the biggest let down
Its really not that complicated!!!
Because his wait and see had nothing to do with the Ireland and was in response to what he'll be doing after this stint as caretaker.
They asked him what's next after Tuesday and said he'll be seeing his family. Then they asked him "and in football" which he said let's wait and see.
Since he walked away from Birmingham to get into management rather than be a coach then I doubt he's got nothing lined job wise and will be waiting to see what offers come his way.
He was asked in the post match if he wants the job and he said ask me after Tuesday. Seems he thinks he still has a bit of a chance, which I absolutely didn't think 3 weeks ago when he was appointed
Its really not that complicated!!!
The perfect answer really. Short and sweet without any unnecessary waffling on like Kenny would. Even if he actually knew that X manager has signed a contract to start in April give them a short and nothing answer. Treat them like mushrooms.
We've been treated like mushrooms since November
Its really not that complicated!!!
This is nonsense - and it is a justification that allows racist poison to fester in society.
And this is for others defending Sagnol as well
Sagnol's 'explanation' was an attempt to justify racist comments.
As I pointed out before - if Sagnol was not a racist he would have held up his hand, accepted that his comments were racist and deeply offensive, apologised for his comments, and then would have advocated for anti-racism campaigns. He did not do this, even after his own former team mates condemned his comments - and that is most telling. Even when he had an opportunity to get the Ghana coaching job he could not bring himself to address the issue.
He has failed over and over again to withdraw his comments and still has not apologised in any way, shape of form. It would be an utter disgrace if the FAI appointed Sagnol and it should not happen.
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