Fair point. It's a risk though for a new manager who w not going to have the luxury of a few free campaigns where he can say he is capping new players and creating a philosophy so results don't matter. The new manager will need to see results earlyOriginally Posted by SkStu
Collins in midfield makes no sense to me, just because hes never played there at club level. Granted hes decent on the ball, but as recent mistakes show he can give away bad passes too. To me Omobamidele is a bit more athletic and I think could make that transition to midfield, but again as hes never played there at club level so who knows! I'd much rather someone like Philips kicks on and becomes a viable option
Its really not that complicated!!!
It's worth testing in a friendly, but I would be surprised (and delighted) if Collins turned out brilliant in midfield. Way I see it, gliding past a player as a center back is a diff prop to gliding past a player in midfield - the former being easier.
You'd never know - we might see him reappear on StrictlyThanks - explains a lot.
A fractured foot would have put a definitive end to Kenny's breakdancing career.
We need to try something - because it is a position where we need a significant upgrade. I would also suggest that it would be worth trying Omobamidele in that position as well.
The timing was perfect for him on several occasions - a good run with Longford and Bohs needed to replace Pete Mahon - sacked by Bohs and three weeks later the Derry job is available - sacked by Dunfermline and three weeks later the Derry job is available again - Michael O'Neill leaves Shamrock Rovers and Kenny gets the job - sacked by Rovers and Dundalk get new owners and in 2018 Noel King steps down as U21 manager and McCarthy is appointed senior manager, Kenny walks into the job and is anointed McCarthy's successor (e.g. what happens if Noel King doesn't retire as U21 manager - do the FAI still give Kenny a job and make him next in line?)
Now again - Kenny had success as a LOI manager - as well as some failures - but most of his success came in a six year stint at Dundalk. But Kenny was never able to make the step beyond the LOI and there was zero evidence that he was any way remotely capable of being an international manager.
More bizarre nitpicking there tbh.
Derry look like they sacked Robertson because Kenny was available. Good manager gets headhunted - there's a shock. Kenny "walked into the U21 job"? He was appointed to the role, leaving Dundalk to do so. And he'd earned the shot. "Michael O'Neill leaves Shamrock Rovers and Kenny gets the job" - so what? He left Derry to take the Rovers job. Shock as manager moves from one club to another.
He had plenty of success outside of the incredible run he had at Dundalk. Two FAI Cups with Longford and one with Derry, the league with Bohs, three times league runner-up with Bohs and Derry, four League Cups with Derry.
He is probably the most successful LoI manager of all time, having built clubs up from relegation candidates to title challengers and more. He took Dundalk to the brink of the Champions League group stages FFS (the tie against Legia, where they were pushing for an equaliser into injury time)
Your ongoing criticism of that part of his career makes no sense.
Anyone know if it possible to buy tickets for upcoming friendlies yet?
I’d rather not buy a season ticket. Smashed after Xmas
Where have I said that he wasn't a success at LOI level?
But he also had failures - being sacked by both Bohs and Shamrock Rovers within a short time of taking over. On several occasions he happened to be out of work when jobs became available - you say that Derry sacked Robertson because Kenny was available - he was available precisely because he had been sacked by Dunfermline after an utterly disastrous tenure where he got them relegated and then on the verge of a second relegation. After his success with Dundalk (when the new owners put money into the club) some idiot in the FAI decided that it would be a good idea to create a pathway for him to become the international manager - despite the fact that he had proven to be nothing more capable than a LOI manager. His tenure in Scotland was telling - Dunfermline was not that big a step up from LOI and when he went there they were already in trouble. The problem was twofold - the slide continued and he could pull them out of it - but he later argued that he got 'them playing in a way Dunfermline had never played before' - the system was more important than what the players were able to do.
This is not nit-picking - it is demonstrating a problem with how the FAI approach hiring candidates for the job of international manager. Kenny was lucky in the LOI in the sense that he had or was able to get some top players into his teams that were able to beat other teams by virtue of the skill level they had, irrespective of Kenny's lack of tactical ability and in-game adjustments - he had a way he wanted to play and that is all that mattered - the writing should have been seen by anyone willing to look. Kenny obviously convinced someone in the FAI that he could bring in his trendy passing game and win, irrespective of who he had available - and unlike at the LOI clubs, he couldn't go out and sign top players who, on the pitch, could mask his other serious deficiencies. The result are obvious - Kenny was the worst manager ever of the Irish team - worse than Staunton in my opinion because Staunton never gave the impression that he had the 'answer' before he got the job.
The FAI should have learned from the Staunton debacle - don't appoint someone who doesn't have some sort of a track record at a high level of football - but they repeated it again with Kenny - the more things change the more they remain the same. People touting Damien Duff should keep this in mind (and I think Duff is a lot smarter than either Staunton or Kenny and could become a top coach - but he still needs to learn the job).
And to be clear - I don't have a problem with appointing someone working as a LOI manager - provided that person has proven that they can do the job somewhere outside a very limited sphere of football, where the same players rotate through clubs season after season, and a small number of quality players can mask deficiencies of the manager.
You've described him as "a run of the mill LOI manager" who "has never demonstrated over his entire career an ability to get the best from his teams"
Neither of these are remotely true, as his record attests.
You go nit-picking about how he left Derry to fall into the Rovers job (what a bizarre thing to criticise him on) and play down his achievements because he had money available (even though other clubs had more money), and ignore how he built Derry/Dundalk up from relegation candidates to top sides who were getting great results not just domestically, but in Europe too. And you ignore how both those sides had slumps immediately after Kenny left (which disproves your suggestion he was unable to get the best out of teams)
Yes, it didn't work out for Ireland, and you could argue Jack Byrne is a top LoI player but that doesn't mean he should be in the Ireland squad. But your constant dismissal of his LoI record is bizarre. He's up there as one of the most successful LoI managers of all time. That's unquestionable - yet you seem to keep wanting to question it. This bit here in particular -
- is rendered absolute nonsense by virtue of how he transformed Longford, Dundalk and Derry in a way other managers simply couldn't do. Even at Bohs - which you try to dismiss as a failure - he won the league and got to a Cup final, at a time when Shels were the big spenders.
Last edited by pineapple stu; 05/01/2024 at 12:22 PM.
Again, beginning to feel a bit like Pineapple's unnecessary wingman here, but he wasnt sacked by Bohs within a short time of taking over. He spent 2 full seasons there as well as 2 partial seasons (including when he took over and when he was sacked), taking us up the table and to a cup final in his first partial season (01/02) after a post-Roddy disaster under Pete Mahon then going on to win the league the next season (02/03) and take us to second the season after (03) behind Shels who were the dominant force under Fenlon and with the backing of Ollie Byrne. He was sacked in the 2004 season after a poor start. The fans had turned on him because we were again behind Shels domestically and slipping but, as i remember it at the time, it felt more due to performances in Europe where expectations were high (we were spending big and Shels had just failed to qualify for the CL group stages) and he failed to deliver. I think many fans admitted later that we were probably a bit too quick to get rid of him.
Oh yeah, he had just turned 30 years old when he took over Bohemians. Thats a bit mad but worth factoring into everything. He still has at least 15 years left in the game and is already unquestionably the most successful LOI manager in history.
Lads, let's wind this down, or take it to the Stephen Kenny thread. This thread is for speculation and news on the new manager.
You can't spell failure without FAI
With apologies to John83's mod warning - and maybe feel free to move to the Stephen Kenny thread - but I was thinking looking at the bare stats that Bohs were probably wrong to sack him when they did. Was interesting to see a Bohs fan drop that in unprovoked, as it were. I know the Levadia Tallinn defeat was a bit of a disaster and that I think hastened things? But Bohs dropped way off the pace the next couple of years then (6th and 9th). It does seem unusual in hindsight that he was under pressure for being in third, given 2½ excellent seasons before that.
We can agree to disagree on this and move on.
You think that Kenny was a highly successful manager at LOI level - and he has a lot of trophies. I agree he was successful - but that doesn't necessarily mean he was a good manager. As with many managers who achieve success, he was in the right place at the right time - more than once. As early as him being Bohs manager I never actually rated him and, for me, all of his flaws were exposed at Dunfermline where he didn't have the safety net of a narrow sphere of football where he had certain advantages as manager.
Anyway - it appears that Birmingham are lining Tony Mowbray as their new manager. That would be a good choice from their perspective - he has a track record of doing well with similar clubs (Mowbray is someone who I wouldn't have a big issue with if he was in the frame for Ireland). Of course - given that the Yanks could do anything - apparently Frank Lampard is also being talked about. But it does seem that Carsley has dropped down the pecking order at the moment.
Tony Mowbray appointed at Birmingham, so that's one possible destination for Carsley ruled out
https://www.bcfc.com/news/all/tony-m...-blues-manager
Paddy Power have Chris Coleman as new frontrunner:
https://www.derrynow.com/news/soccer...rish-boss.html
I see they have Coleman, Carsley, Lennon and Barry all in within the range of 3/1 - 7/2.
Which means they have as much an idea as what we have
Its really not that complicated!!!
Coleman would have to stop calling us a British team for starters
Folding my way into the big money!!!
I'm sure that's covered in the FAI's induction process.
You can't spell failure without FAI
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