QuoteVery surprised to see the speed and uniformity of the 'We stand with Israel' type stuff from various European leaders.
I've never seen it before, and I wonder what is behind the changed message.
Opening a thread as some interesting stuff elsewhere misplaced elsewhere on the site & the last few days etc have been unprecedented.
Very surprised to see the speed and uniformity of the 'We stand with Israel' type stuff from various European leaders.
I've never seen it before, and I wonder what is behind the changed message.
I don't think it's too controversial to suggest it's largely because Israel is a rich US-backed country, and Palestine is just 'arab terrorists', or as the Israeli foreign minister so eloquently named an entire nation of people "human animals".Originally Posted by osarusan
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
But that's been the case the past few decades, so wouldn't explain a change in message.
I noticed it too. My own personal opinion, the EU needs a quick de-escalation of the tensions there and strong statements of condemnation for the actions and support for Israel sends a message to the players in the region to get it under control and/or stop aiding Hamas. The EU has basically got a war on its borders that it is dealing with as well as the ongoing tensions between Serbia/Kosovo and even Serbia/Bosnia. The last thing they have the resources for is supporting an open conflict in the ME too.
Their strong messages of condemnation/support also indirectly supports the US efforts to broker relationships between Israel and Saudi which many see as a key to providing a sustainable peace in the region.
I could be wrong but there’s broadly a lot at stake here for the EU and this is one they see as needing to be shut down quickly.
I'm not surprised by the support for Israel, the actions of Hamas are ill-conceived and futile. However I am disappointed by it. You can be critical of Hamas without doing that. I'm also very, very frustrated by America's near-instant financial support of Israel. I understand it, but I hate it. Israel is a big boy, a rich boy, and they take great pleasure in telling everyone so. They should stand on their own two feet.
I don't support this action by Hamas, in any way. But I continue to hate the Israeli state for their actions, in particular their disgusting, vile leader. And I hate the Israeli people that vote for them and support them. They should be ashamed of themselves. But they aren't.
Hate is a strong word, and intended. And that's not anti-semitic. It's just anti-a55hole.
I think the support is possibly those countries being absolutely terrified of what Israel may do next here, they aren't known for restraint or counting to ten and the attack was disgraceful. If there is any space for their present government to present this as the world taking a what goes around comes around slant, then God help everyone.
Been reading about the falling support for a two state solution within Israeli society, particularly in recent months, but you'd imagine a load of kids dancing in a field might be more open to a live and let live, work this out approach & in that support of two states demographic & they've butchered them.
With respect, you could equally replace all references to Israel in that statement with Hamas and you would still have a valid opinion. Based on todays reports, what happened to the people at the music festival doesnt even sound like the worst of the atrocities with the killing of kids and babies in Kfar Aza. Its disgraceful, its evil. Anyone who supports Hamas (in practical terms or in spirit) is equally worthy of contempt and should be ashamed of themselves but they aren't. And not just confined to this incident. Hamas is anti-semitic, support for them is support for anti-semitism.
Sometimes both parties to an argument are complete a55holes.
Once again, today's reports need to be taken with a huge degree of scepticism. The Israeli army have said they can't confirm them. The babies thing seems to have come from an interview that Israeli-American journalist Nicole Zedeck made with David Ben Zion where he said "
“We talk door after door. We kill a lot of terrorists. We are stronger than them. They are aggressive. They are very bad. They cut head. Off Children, cut head off women. But we are stronger than them.” (He continues talking but audio is cut). Sounded from intonation like he might have been talking more generically about ‘the enemy’ or his perception of Muslims.
From that quote, a clearly very nervous Zedeck, live on tv said: “As I mentioned earlier, about 40 babies, at least, were taken out on gurneys”, when asked about it: “That is what one of the commanders told me… He said we don’t know the exact number of casualties” - which was then shared and given the headline 40 babies murdered by Israel’s Ministry Of Foreign Affairs’ Digital Diplomacy Team. That’s then become 40 beheaded babies by your right wing Americans.
She’s now backtracked slightly to “babies/children” - but the Israeli military have shown a lot of journalists the site and no one has come out with any first hand claims of seeing what is alleged and the Israeli military (not reliable at the best of times) is also refusing to confirm.
Not saying that there’s no truth - but if you were looking to create a narrative to ensure that you were seen as good guys, then claiming the others were beheading babies is a pretty good start. The claims about the German woman were similar - that she was murdered, raped, her naked mutilated body spat on and paraded around etc etc. Turns out that she’s alive in Palestine, requiring medical treatment for a head injury.
There's so much disinformation across the board that you're better sticking to genuine credible news sources, while still questioning the narrative that's being pushed.
I read it on BBC, like.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67065205
Yes, I did too initially, but the IDF have not confirmed this thus far despite several opportunities to do so. Maybe they don't want to let on they dropped the ball so badly, maybe it happened, but hopefully it did not. I have Sky News rolling here as I type and they are on the subject now, it does seem under doubt or at least not fully verified to an extent that BBC should have run it, at least as yet.
The below is from five hours ago.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east...bies-/3014787#
Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. Glad - truly - for it not to be true in that way. That said, there can be no doubt that, beheadings or not, it amounts to another horrific butchering.
Ok, is she verified as alive and ok bar the head injury ?
I saw footage earlier, which I will not post on here but it is on Telegram Channel: Ukraine War Live - October 8th & it was a girl unconscious in the back of a pick up with what look an awful lot like armed Jihadis, she is in her underwear, with blood in her hair, and her leg is bent in a way a human leg does not bend without blunt force impact. She is spat on by them.
Is this fake ?
Is this a different girl ?
I am also hearing IDG / Israeli Govt are taking international media around the massacre sites but not allowing local media ones access.
Here :: https://www.timesofisrael.com/livebl...s-near-border/
Is this true and if it is why might this be ?
--------------
Can anything be believed any longer ?
While It was always good to double check things on Twitter to be sure now it’s a complete lost cause,Musk has destroyed it completely and it’s a disinformation dump now….
Irish by birth ,Harps by the grace of god.
Is it really? Or is it just still a disinformation dump?
The truth is probably in there in the midst of a lot of disinformation. I don't see a huge difference in new twitter to old twitter Maybe less virtue signalling just
Folding my way into the big money!!!
America ~ ~ They all pretty much do as America directs.
People who fight disinformation for a living say it’s much worse,as I said double checking was always good though…
Monetising engagement was only ever going to make things worse though…..
Irish by birth ,Harps by the grace of god.
What can Hamas have expected to achieve by this action? There can only be one Israeli response with such a hawkish regime in charge. Who's influencing them and why?
Might someone be trying to galvanise domestic far right support given Netanhyu's unpopular changes to domestic judicial policy and/or his upcoming corruption case? (Conspiracy alert!!)
I also heard that US support for Israel will reduce supply of weapons available to support Ukraine. Any truth in this?
I think what Hamas have proven here, via the most brutal means imaginable, is that the Israel military simply can't defeat them or even weaken them to the point that the Israeli people can ever truly be relaxed about their threat. The IDF went in to Gaza in 2014, presumably aiming to emasculate Hamas once and for all, yet less than 10 years later they're on the verge of having to go back in and do it all over again. Since the collapse of the Camp David negotiations in 2000 and 9/11 successive Israeli governments have sought to impose a settlement on Palestine, but it hasn't worked and won't work.
With use of drones on the battlefield evolving rapidly in Ukraine, I imagine we'll soon be at the point where rocket attacks are the least of Israel's security worries. Israel has a first class military and security apparatus so they must realise this. In the short term Israel will do what they do, but in the longer term the politicians are going to have to talk to Hamas.
It might seem unlikely today but in the long term there is no other viable option. The British had to talk to SF and the Americans had to talk to the Taliban for the same reasons.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
I don't really understand this post to be honest. You seem to be suggesting that I support Hamas in some way, and I've no idea where you're getting that from.
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