What's mental? I see no solution, do you? Genuinely can you see the Arabs and Israelis living happily together in the future?
I mean, they've killed what - 40k in Palestine in the last year? Another few hundred in Lebanon already?Originally Posted by sbgawa
Do you not think that's slightly more than your suicide bomber (abhorrent and all as that is)?
Thats kind of my point though its pointless as even if every one of them was a Hamas terrorist which they werent they will be replaced straight away and how much nearer is the middle east to peace.
I stand by my comment on the mad mullahs , you cant be Gay there its still punishable by death , woman have zero rights and can be married off at 13, the Iranian people are under the thumb of a bunch of fanatical nutters and no chance of getting rid of them through elections
I think if the Countries surrounding Israel were democracies peace would be possible but as long as those countries are ruled by dictat there will never be peace.
Conservative Islam is a blight on the planet, sure.
Lebanon - which Israel is now attacking - is a democracy.
Israel is a democracy and they're one of the greatest shower of *****s in the world the last 30 years or so
Ultimately the key issue is Israel bombs, slaughters and even invades at will. I don't see why you're looking to avoid that fact
I can't stand the government of Israel, I'd wee on Netanhayu if he were within reach, and Mossad has to be one of the worst "intelligence" agencies out there, but....
....jesus, the pagers and walkie talkies thing was an amazing piece of supply chain f*ckery, wasn't it?
Tbh, I'd say that blindly applying reductive positions such as 'democracy beats theocracy' without any examination of the specific context does massive amounts of harm.
Last edited by osarusan; 02/10/2024 at 1:22 PM.
Was Lebanon perhaps attacking Israel with rockets for the last year?
It could be said they would hardly have invaded if it wasnt for Oct 7th but on the other hand youll have people that will say October 7th happened because of A.N.Other event and it is the Israelis fault.
I dont think ive ever met anyone who having decided who they support has changed their mind based on any logical arguement so lets not go there.
My position is i look at how the people in the countries involved live.
The Iranian people live in a society where any attempt to change has been ruthlessly put down, where if you are gay u could be put to death , where woman have no rights.
Israel is a democracy where people live freely (including the Arabs who live there) and vote in free and fair elections.
Hence i ignore the whataboutery of who is at fault and support the side that more clearly reflects my view of the world.
It might mean that Israel is the tallest dwarf of the two or indeed the bald man who wins my vote for the comb but i just cant see myself siding with people who are so strongly agasint what i see as basic things to live by.
Doesnt mean im a cheerleader for bombing people by either side just that instinctivly i am siding with people who i can relate to on things other than war.
I do find it amusing when you see young people supporting the countries opposed to Israel while also voicing their concerns for equal rights for woman and LGBT people, although when i was young everything seemed simple to me as well. Would be highly amusing if these people decided to have a pride parade through central Tehran or indeed pretty much anywhere in the middle east, it might make them think about their support for despotic regimes.
Last edited by sbgawa; 02/10/2024 at 2:35 PM.
I think I have said it before and I stand behind it still. What we are dealing with here is a massive pair of c*nts. One that doesn't use the power they wield responsibly and inflicts atrocities without repercussions, the other that does all the evil things that sbgawa listed.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
So I agree with stuff like that - but you're using it to back Israel in this conflict
That's an absurd level of simplification
Israel is a terrorist state and needs to be condemned as such. It is possible to have that view while also not looking the government of Iran.
next time i need someone to better say in 10 words what ive just said in a hundred ill send you a PM
Which one is the taller dwarf ?
i dont agree its an oversimplefication.
What Israel is doing is wrong, while it would have been unreasonable to expect any country to have not responded to 1200 of its people being killed and raped plus taken hostage the protracted natire of the response is self defeating and ultimately pointless as they cant win, just like the Brits could never win here.
Calling Israel a terrorist state is fine if you like but the fact remains we have a lot more in common with Israel than we do with Iran or indeed most of the middleeast who hate the west and the values we believe in.
If there has to be a winner i would rather it was Israel but that is an oversimplefication as there simply wont be one it will just rumble on until the mad mullahs and dictators that rule the middle east are gone and the people are in charge ratehr than religious nutters and dictators.
I cant get past the fact that the people cheering on Iran firing missiles at Israel are supporting a country who if several friends of mine where there they would likely be in jail or killed.
The antipathy towards Israel is strongest amongst those who would be the first to throw stones at anyone who questioned our western value system.
You have enough sense to make a logical arguement and have a considered position for most of the people its just the trendy thing to do.
Bohs support Palastine...enough saidcouldnt resist that
Last edited by sbgawa; 02/10/2024 at 4:04 PM.
The only way to make much progress in such conflicts ~ ~ Is, if a third strong force attacks both of them equally ~ ~ And the first two have to ally to take on this third force !
Tis the way of humans !
Who's cheering on Iran launching missiles at Israel?i dont agree its an oversimplefication.
What Israel is doing is wrong, while it would have been unreasonable to expect any country to have not responded to 1200 of its people being killed and raped plus taken hostage the protracted natire of the response is self defeating and ultimately pointless as they cant win, just like the Brits could never win here.
Calling Israel a terrorist state is fine if you like but the fact remains we have a lot more in common with Israel than we do with Iran or indeed most of the middleeast who hate the west and the values we believe in.
If there has to be a winner i would rather it was Israel but that is an oversimplefication as there simply wont be one it will just rumble on until the mad mullahs and dictators that rule the middle east are gone and the people are in charge ratehr than religious nutters and dictators.
I cant get past the fact that the people cheering on Iran firing missiles at Israel are supporting a country who if several friends of mine where there they would likely be in jail or killed.
The antipathy towards Israel is strongest amongst those who would be the first to throw stones at anyone who questioned our western value system.
You have enough sense to make a logical arguement and have a considered position for most of the people its just the trendy thing to do.
Bohs support Palastine...enough said
We have very little in common with Israel - they're a murderous genocidal state where an awful lot of people approve of what the country is doing and where any criticism is conveniently dismissed as anti-Semitism without any attempt to engage in discussion.
They've more in common with Nazi Germany than us.
Though interestingly the idea that Israel has more in common with the west than the Muslims do is one of the main tropes Israel push out in their social media propaganda (came to light in the Wix scandal last year for example)
I think there's no right side in this conflict. Each (Israel on one side, Hamas and Hezbollah on the other) would happily obliterate the other to extinction. And while Hamas/Hezbollah don't have the means to follow through with it, Israel is probably still held back somewhat by not wanting to completely lose support from the US and other Western countries.
One thing to keep an eye on is public support for Israel in the US. it's always been very high, so supporting Israel helps at the booths. But lately there's a minority in favour of Israel for about the first time ever. If that keeps up, US policies may start to change.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/...tion-gaza.aspx
Do you feel you have more in common with the mad mullahs and Asad in Syria?
I'm happy with my choices.
I find it impossible to find anything in common with a democracy that would indiscriminately murder tens of thousands of medics, journalists and civilians for a year straight. Let alone the apartheid, and *gestures at the last 60+ I don't know how many years*
It doesn't really matter what you think about fundamentalist Muslims, not all Arabs or Muslims are the same or hold the same beliefs for that matter, there are tons of innocent people with no say in this being murdered by a democracy that votes to do just that. Netanyahu is every bit as insane as Putin or any other tyrant you can think of throughout history. What Israel/US and any other enabler are doing is horrendous and shouldn't be allowed to happen. It will be looked upon with horror by future generations. As for young or lgbtq+ people supporting the Palestinian struggle, or any other group who you might think would hate them, you do not need to agree with someone's beliefs to think that they don't deserve to be murdered, people are capable of empathy and holding multiple positions at once.
How much do you feel you have in common with Hitler's Germany?
I'm any event, it's not an either-or option here. You can disapprove of both.
This isn't football. Why do you have to pick a side?
I like the people who are against blowing up children. I feel like that's safer ground than which genocidal ******* has more in common with me.
You can't spell failure without FAI
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