QuoteOk, read this thread/MB for a start....
A one line explanation or link would be fine.Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Ok, read this thread/MB for a start....
It's not much to ask, is it? Just one little line or link. And you can't even manage that. Ask a more with-it Celtic fan to help, if you like?
Huh??
Is not reading this esteemed MB not enough of a clue??
All I'm asking you to do is give a one-line explanation (or link to one) of why Celtic and Rangers are not an old firm, and why that name pretty much invariably used by football fans in Glasgow and beyond for a century is unfair/ wrong. And you can't do it.
Le me put it a bit differently. You (the more obsessive Celtic fans) justify pretty much everything- playing badly, brawling managers, paramilitary songfests, widespread arrests- as a response to 'themmuns' doing it worse/ first. And so do they (more obsessive Rangers fans). It's self-perpetuating.
Except, as ever, that warped conclusion is wrong.
Last edited by Plastic Paddy; 17/03/2011 at 6:15 AM.
Semper in faecibus sole profundum variat
Thanks PP.
In addition to the above, might I recommend 'the two 'Celtic Minded' books by Professor Joe.Bradley of Stirling University, who despite his heritage and location is not a Tim.
But wrote two excellent tomes on the subject and why were're not generally like the worst excesses of der Hun.
And speak as someone who knows 5 Rangers fans!! And none of them believe in the 'Old Firm' label either.
This is simply wrong. Celtic are not second-class or underclass; along with Rangers they have dominated Scottish football for almost a century. Neither they as a club nor their supporters as individuals or group (Catholic or otherwise) have been discriminated against for decades.
That refusal ended decades ago. So it's er, ancient historical. Whataboutery, eh?Rangers’ decades-long refusal to field Catholic players, which might, you’d have thought been a key component of that historical context
Again, this is simply not so. Rangers have been widely reported and criticised for their indiscipline, both on-field and off. Celtic have also, entirely reasonably, been criticised for the latter. Hardly surprising when their manager squares up to Rangers' assistant.There was no good behaviour at Parkhead last week...and there was plain stupidity in both blue and green. It’s just that most of it came from Rangers, while most of the criticism has been directed at Celtic. And that is just plain wrong
http://celticparanoia.blogspot.com/2...-universe.html
Alternatively, Scottish viewers may just be intelligent enough to blame Neil Lennon for his behavior on the night, and Rangers' staff and players for theirs. Even if they don't necessarily draw a labored and largely irrelevant parallel with 1984 (the book, not the Old Firm riot of that year).
Last edited by Gather round; 17/03/2011 at 10:13 PM.
Do you really only know five Rangers fans?
Having grown up in Belfast, I knew far more than that at school, among family etc. I've never heard one of them either a) claim that the Old Firm label is unfair/wrong, or b) deny that both sides have a minority of bigoted/sectarian/violent fans who have matched each other in mutual winding-up throughout their time of supporting the club.
Complete and utter nonsense.
As well documented in just about any reasonable book on Glasgow/West Of Scotland, especially those that mention the two football clubs.
Around 20 or years ago. Is that really so 'ancient'??That refusal ended decades ago. So it's er, ancient historical. Whataboutery, eh?
However the prevailing views of their more diehard fans, like one recent contributor, is rooted not even in this century!!
The cards count v. them to date in Celtic games (& generally) this season (& many others) has surpassed that of the opposition or were they also all wrong??Rangers have been widely reported and criticised for their indiscipline, both on-field and off.
Besides the usual spelling issues(!!), Lennon's behaviour was entirely in context, given the provocation....Alternatively, Scottish viewers may just be intelligent enough to blame Neil Lennon for his behaviour on the night, and Rangers' staff and players for theirs. Even if they don't necessarily draw a laboured and largely irrelevant parallel with 1984 (the book, not the Old Firm riot of that year).
Whilst the bizarre analogy struggles to carry as much weight, as the, er, author!
Last edited by ArdeeBhoy; 18/03/2011 at 3:42 AM.
Play the ball, AB, not the man.Besides the usual spelling issues(!!), Lennon's behaviour was entirely in context, given the provocation....
Whilst the bizarre analogy struggles to carry as much weight, as the, er, author!
PP
Semper in faecibus sole profundum variat
You're hysterical. Celtic clearly aren't discriminated against as an organisation- they dominate most of the domestic games they play. Their fans- particularly those who are Roman Catholics/ Irish ancestry haven't been systematically discriminated against in employment/education/ access to social services etc. for decades, as I said.
Yup, particularly when your argument that Rangers are so much worse than Celtic relies on events in one game earlier this month. You can't have it both ways.Around 20 or years ago. Is that really so 'ancient'??
Cards in competitive games this season:The cards count v. them to date in Celtic games (& generally) this season (& many others) has surpassed that of the opposition or were they also all wrong??
Rangers 77 yellow + 4 red
Celtic 73 yellow + 5 red
(source: BBC)
The stats are clear enough. It's your interpretation of them that's wrong.
There are no issues, at least not for me. I didn't misspell the words you indicated. So apart from being absurdly pedantic, you are simply wrong.Besides the usual spelling issues(!!)
Indeed. The "context" being that he acted the dick at a high profile game (not for the first time), got rightly criticised and punished for it, but is now being uncritically defended by you. Why don't you just admit what everyone bar the most blinkered Tims can see- he just doesn't cope that well in the spotlight nd might be better suited to a lower-profile job.Lennon's behaviour was entirely in context, given the provocation....
The fat fool might have done, had he got there in timePlay the ball, AB, not the man.
On considered reflection, post #1773 is the biggest load of complete nonsense I have read online in many a long day.
A simple search of Google or similar regarding the poster's opening statement would show it to be as far-fetched as any Fox News report in terms of balance.
Perhaps he can show instead evidence of the equality claimed....
Add another red for Celtic to that list!
League Cup Final: Pretty poor game on an ever poorer surface won by the team which wanted it the most.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Do I have to give you a cyberslap too?The fat fool might have done, had he got there in time
Unfortunately I can only agree. Celtic keep giving a dead club a lifeline.
Semper in faecibus sole profundum variat
Redder faces than usual at the SFA. They backed down from the Celtic lawyer's threat to take the SFA to court, unless they refrained from circumventing the rules in order to punish Neil Lennon.
Last month the Celtic lawyer was asked to comment by the BBC about this issue, he replied "the SFA appears to be institutionally dysfunctional" "I wish the SFA would start to grow up and behave responsibly"
"Nothing the SFA do surprise me any more. I thought it was a simple matter to confirm whether it is a four-match ban or an eight-match ban.
"But, as a matter of law, there is no question in my mind at all, it is a four-match ban."
Rangers, in 1997, refused to fly the Irish flag when Shelbourne came to town. Have they changed that policy? They're still an anti-Irish bigoted club, nothing has changed in that regard.That refusal ended decades ago. So it's er, ancient historical. Whataboutery, eh?
Oh and look today.....
RANGERS fans are set to be hammered with a three-match Euro ban for singing sectarian songs.
Last night Ibrox chiefs were also bracing themselves for a "heavy" fine which could be as much as £100,000.
And there are now also fears that UEFA's determination to clamp down on ' bigots could further delay, if not derail entirely, Craig Whyte's £25 million buy-out.
UEFA have told to expect the penalties because of sectarian songs and chants which the governing body claim were belted out during the Europa League match against PSV in Eindhoven on March 10.
The Ibrox club have until next Thursday to submit their defence - the hearing will be held in Nyon two weeks later - if they are to have any chance of avoiding a FOURTH European sanction.
But a UEFA source, who confirmed Gers had been pulled up again, also said it was unlikely the club could escape punishment.
only discovered they were in trouble yesterday and when contacted by Record Sport, beleaguered chief executive Martin Bain spoke of his "utter dismay".
But he stressed the Ibrox club would be defending their position "vigorously".
will try once again to convince UEFA they have done all they can to rid themselves of the bigots but it is almost certain all their fans will be banned from the next three away matches in Europe.
The club were fined £13,000 for discriminatory chanting and £9,000 for an attack on Villarreal's team bus in 2006.
UEFA also demanded they pay £8,280 after a UEFA Cup tie against Osasuna in March 2007 with the Spanish club receiving a £31,000 fine because of poor organisation.
Then, in November 2009, the club were fined £18,000 after a Champions League match against Unirea Urziceni in Romania. Again the home side were also fined (£7,200) for poor organisation.
A UEFA spokesman said last night: "For this kind of behaviour and the number of offences which is repeated the fine could be heavy - as much as 150,000 Swiss francs."
Bain said: "We are utterly dismayed to be informed by UEFA that they are to take disciplinary action. We will defend the club's position vigorously.
"UEFA have made clear in any previous disciplinary hearings that sanctions have been mitigated by the extensive work the club does to tackle sectarianism.
"We are not saying there is not a problem but we are saying that for many years we have made strenuous attempts to address it. We do, however, believe it is absurd to think only supporters sing offensive or sectarian songs. We are left to conclude there is a disproportionate focus on us.
"It has also become clear there are people who have been determined to undermine our club at any cost and have constantly lobbied for action against ."
can point to their Euro record this season which will show five trips with no arrests for sectarian or discriminatory behaviour. They will also point out that they've been given a clean bill of health all season from delegates and security officers who have been specifically briefed by UEFA to look out for sectarian singing.
It is also believed they have letters from Greater Manchester Police and the British Vice Consul in Valencia praising behaviour.
The club will also question UEFA over whether or not they act on reports submitted by people other than official delegates and police but stress they won't be attempting to say they aren't tracked around Europe by morons.
This deranged and also dangerous element have refused to believe UEFA were prepared to take more serious action but they are now about to experience that reality.
The man trying to buy from David Murray will also have been given a reality check. Last week Whyte discovered there was an outstanding tax bill of almost £3m and now he finds the club he wants to own is in big bother with UEFA.
I find it mildly amusing that it could well be Her Majestys Revenue & Customs that could take Rangers down - Mr. Stokes may well have to rethink his ban!
I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?
"No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew
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