SPL Discussion Thread

**old git** · 14/03/2011, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Their manager got in to a spat with one of the Rangers players (albeit an unsavoury character) and their manager had to be dragged away from the Rangers' manager. Lennon let his club down. I like Lennon but that can't be papered over.

jesus is this the first time a manager got involved in a spat with an opposition player and had to be dragged away from the rangers manager what i saw of incident both lennon & mc cost were pulled apart and so called dragged away why dont you make such a big issue about mc coist getting dragged away and letting down his club

**osarusan** · 14/03/2011, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by old git

jesus is this the first time a manager got involved in a spat with an opposition player and had to be dragged away from the rangers manager what i saw of incident both lennon & mc cost were pulled apart and so called dragged away why dont you make such a big issue about mc coist getting dragged away and letting down his club

Because the argument on this thread is that Celtic did nothing wrong while Rangers 'lost it.' His point is that Lennon clearly lost it too. And while it isn't the first time a manager got in a spat with an opposition player, it's not the first time a team has had three red cards in a game either. If one is worthy of mention (and condemnation), so is the other.

**Junior** · 15/03/2011, 12:00 PM

Is it a balanced view to suggest that the evenings events were down to both sides, equally? 'The Old Firm', Tit for Tat, Two sides of the same coin, Ying & Yang, yadda yadda yadda - Quite clearly not.

I am not saying that you are saying that osarusan but that is how it has been portrayed in the media, by Alex Salmond, posters on here.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 15/03/2011, 12:25 PM

Well, like I said up thread, that's down to pure ignorance on their part.

**Gather round** · 16/03/2011, 8:38 AM

Originally Posted by Junior

Is it a balanced view to suggest that the evenings events were down to both sides, equally? 'The Old Firm', Tit for Tat, Two sides of the same coin, Ying & Yang, yadda yadda yadda - Quite clearly not.

I am not saying that you are saying that osarusan but that is how it has been portrayed in the media, by Alex Salmond, posters on here

The issue isn't one evening's events (where, quite clearly Rangers were more ill-disciplined on-field than Celtic). It's how both sets of fans have behaved over decades. They've long been called the 'Old Firm' (ie, mutually dependent to create and encourage rivalry/ tension etc.) because they've been behaving thus for decades. It's hard to avoid the whataboutery- it's basically self-evident to fans of all other Scottish clubs, local residents on matchdays etc.

Who might just be better-informed than the occasional tourist up from London.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 16/03/2011, 8:46 AM

Except those people who aren't fans suffer from their own misinformed prejudices and have based their position, often from warped media coverage.
And the 'Old Firm' concept is an outdated fallacy at least half-a-century out of date, FFS.

Celtic fans/players aren't saints but they have won awards for good behaviour and charitable works from UEFA & other organizations, a compliment not generally extended to those associated with a certain team from Govan!

**Gather round** · 16/03/2011, 9:15 AM

Don't be silly. Winning UEFA awards doesn't mean that there isn't a substantial minority of ********s regularly embarrassing the team, as NI fans know too well.

They're called the Old Firm because they've used their religious/ sectarian rivalry to dominate the game locally, for about a century. Their relationship today ain't that different from the Billy Boys/ Tim Malloys era.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 16/03/2011, 9:26 AM

What have Celtic fans got to do with the North especially, except when they riot in the Ardoyne, or being subject to sectarian attacks from the usual uber-Unionists.....

And most Tims/Gers know the meaning of the 'Old Firm', but even the media who use it now are uninformed morons indulging in lazy cliches.
Which in the instances you cite, are more than a century out-of-date!

It's nothing to do with them becoming the two most popular and successful clubs in Scotland.
Both have support from all over Scotland and their respective Diaspora(s) which has allowed them to continue this.

**Gather round** · 16/03/2011, 9:31 AM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

What have Celtic fans got to do with the North especially

Er, many of them live there? My point was that receipt of UEFA awards and having a minority sectarian following are not incompatible.

And most Tims/Gers know the meaning of the 'Old Firm', but even the media who use it now are uninformed morons indulging in lazy cliches

So does anyone else with a passing interest in football rivalry, or who lives in Scotland and has to put up with their antics.

Just to clarify: 'Old Firm' means that it's existed for a long time, NOT that it stopped existing a long time ago. Clear now?

**ArdeeBhoy** · 16/03/2011, 9:41 AM

Originally Posted by Gather round

Er, many of them live there? My point was that receipt of UEFA awards and having a minority sectarian following are not incompatible.

And?

So does anyone else with a passing interest in football rivalry, or who lives in Scotland and has to put up with their antics.

Just to clarify: 'Old Firm' means that it's existed for a long time, NOT that it stopped existing a long time ago. Clear now?

A bit harsh to imply they're all 'uninformed morons', though to be fair, as highlighted here and elsewhere certain aspects of the media like to sensationalize the rivalry regardless of the facts or context.

And the cited definition of the 'Old Firm' is outdated and wrong. So no, not remotely clear, unless relying on the usual cliches....

Try going to a few games at both grounds and find out for yourself!!

**Gather round** · 16/03/2011, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

And?

I mentioned that receiving UEFA awards doesn't contradict a minority of sectarian bigots in the fanbase, to answer your implication that it does.

I repeated the point because you ignored (or possibly didn't understand) it.

A bit harsh to imply they're all 'uninformed morons'

Indeed. Well done for withdrawing it.

though to be fair, as highlighted here and elsewhere certain aspects of the media like to sensationalize the rivalry regardless of the facts or context

Well, again to be fair, a game between the two leading teams where one team has three players sent off and the opposing coaches start a punch-up is pretty worthy of note.

And the cited definition of the 'Old Firm' is outdated and wrong. So no, not remotely clear, unless relying on the usual cliches....

Sorry, lost you now. Explain just how the Old Firm aren't an old firm any more?

Try going to a few games at both grounds and find out for yourself!!

Thanks but no thanks. You don't seriously think that only people who attend their games know how Old Firm fans behave?

**ArdeeBhoy** · 16/03/2011, 11:27 AM

It was no less ignored than the other point which was to be addressed, in the usual 'balanced' manner!

Punch-ups and spats happen often between rival teams, but it doesn't usually lead, even now, to such disproportionate and uninformed negative coverage of both. Hence the objection to the antiquated 'OF' label. By both sides.

As for how the fans 'behave', given such a supposed fascination, surely the fans of the clubs involved know more or are you seriously suggesting collective ignoramuses would know better......

**ArdeeBhoy** · 16/03/2011, 11:36 AM

Also, just a thought GR.
Why not stick to subjects you actually know something about??

Crossword clues and cr*p music from the '70's spring to mind!

**Gather round** · 16/03/2011, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Punch-ups and spats happen often between rival teams, but it doesn't usually lead, even now, to such disproportionate and uninformed negative coverage of both. Hence the objection to the antiquated 'OF' label. By both sides

They've been called the Old Firm for a century not because their players/ coaches/ fans occasionally enjoy a rammy, nor even because they've long been the dominant teams in their league. But because their rivalry has been deliberately, cynically and mutually encouraged along largely sectarian lines. That doesn't just give them a playing advantage over other teams, it's a longstanding pain in the hole to the rest of the Glaswegian and wider population. Who you- like me- only know as a tourist, so less of the rank-pulling please.

They're a firm because they're two halves of the same malign whole. And always have been. Even you must realise that's how fans of pretty much every other Scottish club sees them.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 16/03/2011, 12:06 PM

Except you're so wrong it's not true!

**Gather round** · 16/03/2011, 12:18 PM

Great comeback, Einstein.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 16/03/2011, 12:25 PM

Worthy of the misinformed drivel which was in the preceding post....

**Gather round** · 16/03/2011, 12:40 PM

I asked you to explain why/how the Old Firm wasn't an old firm any more. You have declined. Either you know it still is and won't admit it, or you don't understand what the name means, despite me explaining repeatedly above.